• Being gay in Sweden
    85 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;50676573]Left-leaning users getting incredibly angry at a video bringing up issues caused by left-wing policies without a clear way to handwave it as being propaganda or part of the right? Wonder why that is.[/QUOTE] Who is getting incredibly angry? [editline]9th July 2016[/editline] How is this even necessarily a left wing policy, a liberal right wing government could've done things like Sweden too, immigration wise
I agree with immigration and agree with somewhat open borders but I also agree that the discrimination of LGBT individuals is an issue The entire situation is beyond my stance to even argue, these things don't work for Sweden so one of those things would have to go to make room for the other. Either you close your borders or ignore LGBT. That or actually try and work at the core of the issue. do I have a good picture of the situation or am I a bit ignorant? I'm not too familiar with Swedish politics so
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;50676602]Who is getting incredibly angry?[/QUOTE] The people that spent this thread using pretty harsh language on how "there's absolutely nothing to discuss here" or it's dumb to even talk about this because "we're a bunch of forum users?" The people trying to shut down a conversation?
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;50676629]The people trying to shut down a conversation?[/QUOTE] They bombarded me with boxes for planting the seeds ... How will I ever recuperate? :saddowns:
when it comes to any debate, who the hell cares if 'we can't do anything' literally the entire point of the forum is to discuss and debate, or even violently argue. Doesn't matter if we'll never fix an issue or if we can never fix one, it's why we're all here. whether it's arguing about whether or not the holocaust actually happened or if the moon really exists, or even just debating the best way to wipe your ass, all debate is useful debate. at the same time it's no wonder people don't like talking about something like this. It's a conflicting issue. I don't totally understand how I can talk about it either.
[QUOTE=aydin690;50675485]Haven't you heard? Birmingham is a no go zone: [video=youtube;-_zF7nbEvwY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_zF7nbEvwY[/video][/QUOTE] Birmingham resident here, it was funny when that guy apologized to us for being so stupid.
[QUOTE=BioWaster;50676646]They bombarded me with boxes for planting the seeds ... How will I ever recuperate? :saddowns:[/QUOTE] The boxes can be made into a decent fertilizer, so you can use it to grow flowers which can be exchanged for [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/heart.png[/img]
[QUOTE=aydin690;50675469]You europeans love sitting back and blaming everything on brown people. Both US and Canada are doing very well with immigrants and both have significant muslim immigrant populations. You know why? Because immigrants in NA are not treated as 2nd class citizens. You can't just let in a whole bunch of people and throw them in ghettos, don't make them feel accepted and included and don't mingle with them and expect them to magically integrate. I saw this first hand when me and 3 of my buddies backpacked through europe from Budapest to Amsterdam. One of my friends is a canadian born indian and you wouldn't believe the amount of dirty looks he got everywhere he went and we almost got into a fight in Stuttgart because some moron thought it would be funny to pour his beer on him 'by accident' while his friends were watching and laughing.[/QUOTE] This is the kind of mentality that puts Sweden in the shitter. Who needs a spine when you can just take responsibility even when its clearly not your fault?
How the fuck do so many refugees end up living in the same neighborhoods? Like seriously, how the hell does that even happen.
Tge government shove them all into the same area.
I was seriously planning on moving to sweden in 3-4 years, to escape this florida heat in exchange for some cold. Things like this really make me question my logic.
[QUOTE=T3hW1nn3r;50676987]I was seriously planning on moving to sweden in 3-4 years, to escape this florida heat in exchange for some cold. Things like this really make me question my logic.[/QUOTE] I'd go for Nova Scotia or just Canada in general before anywhere in Europe Tbh. [t]http://i.imgur.com/vkcEGNe.png[/t] Thanks fam
[QUOTE=soulharvester;50677015]I'd go for Nova Scotia or just Canada in general before anywhere in Europe Tbh.[/QUOTE] I went there for vacation in stockholm, and it was one of the best things that I have ever experienced, even made some friends. Canada didn't want to let me move there the first time I tried.
[QUOTE=T3hW1nn3r;50676987]I was seriously planning on moving to sweden in 3-4 years, to escape this florida heat in exchange for some cold. Things like this really make me question my logic.[/QUOTE] You'll be fine :v:
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;50677030]You'll be fine :v:[/QUOTE] Yeah, a lot of the issues are concentrated in ghettos, 30-40 minutes away from the big cities. But in the majority of cases people would probably not give a crap about you. I live in one of them, called Fittja.
[QUOTE=elowin;50676792]How the fuck do so many refugees end up living in the same neighborhoods? Like seriously, how the hell does that even happen.[/QUOTE] Because the neighborhoods are cheap, and the immigrants often have some kind of family who lives there. You don't need to promote or 'shove' them anywhere for these neighborhoods to start to exist. If you have a 50 year old 8 high apartment complex you end up with neighborhoods like this in and around it.
[QUOTE=Cold;50677117]Because the neighborhoods are cheap, and the immigrants often have some kind of family who lives there. You don't need to promote or 'shove' them anywhere for these neighborhoods to start to exist. If you have a 50 year old 8 high apartment complex you end up with neighborhoods like this in and around it.[/QUOTE] Except our government DO move refugees in groups of hundreds to different areas throughout Sweden. We're talking about refugees, they have 0 money when they come into this country.
[QUOTE=T3hW1nn3r;50676987]I was seriously planning on moving to sweden in 3-4 years, to escape this florida heat in exchange for some cold. Things like this really make me question my logic.[/QUOTE] Eh, as long as you don't move in to a ghetto you'll be fine. You can't really judge a country by a few small, concentrated communities because Sweden as a whole is pretty forward and progressive. America has WAY larger problems when it comes to things like homophobia, violence, poverty, xenophobia, racism etc.
Haven't hate crimes against gays in Sweden been declining since 2009 while hate crimes against Muslims have been increasing over the same period?
[QUOTE=aydin690;50675469]You europeans love sitting back and blaming everything on brown people. Both US and Canada are doing very well with immigrants and both have significant muslim immigrant populations. You know why? Because immigrants in NA are not treated as 2nd class citizens. You can't just let in a whole bunch of people and throw them in ghettos, don't make them feel accepted and included and don't mingle with them and expect them to magically integrate. I saw this first hand when me and 3 of my buddies backpacked through europe from Budapest to Amsterdam. One of my friends is a canadian born indian and you wouldn't believe the amount of dirty looks he got everywhere he went and we almost got into a fight in Stuttgart because some moron thought it would be funny to pour his beer on him 'by accident' while his friends were watching and laughing.[/QUOTE] You're full of shit. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country[/URL] 0.8% of USA population is muslim. France is 7.5% Sweden is at 5% UK at 4.8% Now look at # of refugees per 1000 residents. [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population[/URL] Sweden is the Western county with the highest number at 14.66 USA is has 0.84. Just let that sink in. It has nothing to do with Americans treating the people better, we just have way fewer "brown people" You can look at the numbers on both of those pages and understand why France and Sweden are having more problems than us.
I believe this problem stems from two things: 1. a far to lenient view on integration and tolerance of religion, 2. trying to integrate too many people at once. It's well known that a lot of the people who come here somehow base their morals on the quran and hadiths where being gay isn't just considered to be wrong but is a crime punishable by death. Despite of this we barely do anything to try to change these peoples believes and we even allow them to have pretty much unregulated mosques where muslims from all over the world travel and speak about both moderate views but many times also extremist views. We have actually even let people open up muslim free schools where children study the quran 8 hours a week and the staff isn't allowed to listen to the radio. If you walk around here in Malmö with a kippa on, brown people will immediately start taunting you and threaten you, they actually tried this in the nice neighborhoods where I have walked around almost without a problem for well over 10 years. There simply is no denying that we aren't trying hard enough to integrate and assimilate people. Still, the majority of people I have talked with deny that we even have a culture that they can assimilate to. I think there are two obvious things we can do to remedy this problem. The first thing is to stop taking in so many people, lower immigration and asylum approvals drastically until we are in a better position to integrate people. The second thing we can do is stop being so "tolerant". People should not be able to invite salifi and wahabist imams to mosques as speakers and they should not be allowed to put their children in a muslim school.
[QUOTE=TornadoAP;50675186]Can we please not do this? The reason no one wants to talk about it is that there is NOTHING to talk about. Immigrant neighborhoods in Sweden are shitholes, okay. I'm sure the majority of us saw this coming with what happened to France and Belgium when they got Muslim neighborhoods. What can we do about it? Fuck all. There's absolutely nothing to discuss here.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=kill3r;50675213]It's odd that this is your first assumption. As another poster said, there really isn't much to talk about[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TornadoAP;50675214]And how the fuck do you propose we do that, huh? We're just a bunch of forum posters on the internet, we can't really do much right now.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;50675309]As if it matters if people here ignore this topic, nobody here has any influence on anything lol Also, I wish people would stop generalizing the left[/QUOTE] Lets not discuss anything serious on this forum then. Because we don't have any influence to directly change things. Lets never have discussion about women's issues, LGBT issues, immigration, brexit, guns, and the like, because none of us is a politician who has direct control over these things. Right?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;50678556]Lets not discuss anything serious on this forum then. Because we don't have any influence to directly change things. Lets never have discussion about women's issues, LGBT issues, immigration, brexit, guns, and the like, because none of us is a politician who has direct control over these things. Right?[/QUOTE] *Sigh* that is not what I meant. The post I quoted made it sound like we [b]have[/b] to talk about this, like it is required, and if we on this forum don't talk about it we're ignoring the problem, but that is not true at all. I may have opinions on gun control, but I don't talk about them on this forum. Does that mean I'm ignoring the gun control issue in general? No, I'm just choosing not to talk about it on a forum where you can post about whatever you like.
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;50678673]*Sigh* that is not what I meant. The post I quoted made it sound like we [b]have[/b] to talk about this, like it is required, and if we on this forum don't talk about it we're ignoring the problem, but that is not true at all. I may have opinions on gun control, but I don't talk about them on this forum. Does that mean I'm ignoring the gun control issue in general? No, I'm just choosing not to talk about it on a forum where you can post about whatever you like.[/QUOTE] Or, or what the guy you quoted was going after was the fact that if it was white people ganging up and beating up gays the thread would've exploded wouldn't any need of encouragement to post.
More and more I find it difficult to comment on the European migration problem, as it's incomparable with the US. Largely, it's because our problems seem to be the opposite in some regards. It's far too easy to migrate into nations in Europe, while it's extremely difficult to (legally) migrate to the US. However, I would agree that Europe does have a problem with integration, as you'd be hard pressed to find migrant communities within the US that have the problems that Europe does.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;50677189]Except our government DO move refugees in groups of hundreds to different areas throughout Sweden. We're talking about refugees, they have 0 money when they come into this country.[/QUOTE] No fucking wonder it's causing issues. I think that's a much bigger part of the issue than the sheer volume of immigrants is. If you create an area within the country that's dominated by a foreign culture, no shit the people living there are going to reinforce themselves in that culture rather than try to integrate with Swedish culture. Someone didn't think this through.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;50676573]Left-leaning users getting incredibly angry at a video bringing up issues caused by [b]left-wing policies[/b] without a clear way to handwave it as being propaganda or [b]part of the right?[/b] Wonder why that is.[/QUOTE] The majority of European countries are ruled by right-wing parties and the centre-left has been on the decline for years. Even if you had any basis to suggest that the immigration policies in literally every single European country were implemented by a left-leaning party, the harsh left-right divide you are implying is entirely fictional, considering that right-wing governments have had ample opportunity to implement a radically different policy. Right-wing doesn't equal anti-immigrant, and it certainly doesn't necessarily equal acting like Fidesz or PiS, more often than not. It's also important to consider, hey, maybe the immigration policy of a right-wing government is [i]actually[/i] right-wing, and the left has nothing to do with it. Do you consider the German government to be leftist, by the way?
[QUOTE=phaedon;50680992]Do you consider the German government to be leftist, by the way?[/QUOTE] I consider Europe as a whole very "left" from my perspective. For instance, I could never conceive of our country letting another country print our primary currency, no matter what deals we made with them.
If countries want diversity, then do it right. Just allowing in people from all nationals doesn't cut it, you have to have diversity in neighborhoods and even appartments. Avoid having big areas in the city that mostly consist of the same nationality, it doesn't help integration at all for the people living inside of it
I've never had any troubles with us (Sweden) accepting immigrants, I want us to help people, but as someone who lives in a town/city(Trollhättan) where too much immigrants concentrated in one area(Kronogården), I've seen this problem. There is literally 0 integration. It's so dumb though, because we have immigrants in other areas where it's more "mixed" and they've integrated with no problems at least to my knowledge. I have no idea how the LGBT is treated there but I'd expect, not that good. My town is apparently arranging a Pride-festival in the coming "Fallens Dagar", a yearly event. The thing is though, I'd love to see them march through the very immigrant dense areas, not that I think they will. I'd love to get hold of a spokesperson and ask about it.
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