• Being gay in Sweden
    85 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ltp0wer;50677835] 0.8% of USA population is muslim. Sweden is at 5% [/QUOTE] Just gonna point out the 0.8% of the American population is 2,551,200, while 5% of the Swedish population is only 479,650.
[QUOTE=DarklytheGreat;50686262]Just gonna point out the 0.8% of the American population is 2,551,200, while 5% of the Swedish population is only 479,650.[/QUOTE] ??? yeah and sweden is 5% of the size of usa
[QUOTE=Tudd;50675112]The forum is sometimes too left-leaning to have a talk about this issue.[/QUOTE] In history criticizing religion has always been a topic of the leftists and socialists, but today the left has this ridiculous instinct of protecting every minority, that they all deserve to be free of scrutiny. They always want to support the underdog, even if that dog has rabies. [QUOTE=aydin690;50675469]You europeans love sitting back and blaming everything on brown people. Both US and Canada are doing very well with immigrants and both have significant muslim immigrant populations. You know why? Because immigrants in NA are not treated as 2nd class citizens. You can't just let in a whole bunch of people and throw them in ghettos, don't make them feel accepted and included and don't mingle with them and expect them to magically integrate. [/QUOTE] Yea, we dumb europeans just put those muslims into ghettos, sure dude :D. Talk again when americas gang problems are fixed shall we? A lot of it is a toxic culture inside those communities that is very hard to fix, even with a lot of government intervention.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50686399]The point is that statistic doesnt mean anything. You are gonna say conglomeration but for all we know that 0.5% could all be living in a ghetto outside los angeles. Those numbers are literally meaningless alone.[/QUOTE] That's why I listed another statistic, refugee's per 1000 people. I didn't just post % of population statistics. You don't think it makes a difference when 1 out of 68 people in Sweden are a refugee, versus 1 out of 1190 in the US? You're saying it doesn't mean [I]anything[/I]? Or are you just saying that % of population alone means nothing, in which I might not agree, but it isn't really relevant to my post. edit: and keep in mind my post was in regards to the dude saying, "America doesn't have problems like this because we don't treat brown people as second class citizens like Europeans do." I really don't understand thinking the statistics I posted are meaningless in the context of the post I was replying to.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50679295]More and more I find it difficult to comment on the European migration problem, as it's incomparable with the US. Largely, it's because our problems seem to be the opposite in some regards. It's far too easy to migrate into nations in Europe, while it's extremely difficult to (legally) migrate to the US. However, I would agree that Europe does have a problem with integration, as you'd be hard pressed to find migrant communities within the US that have the problems that Europe does.[/QUOTE] We do have issues with integration, but speaking for Denmark alone, there has been a positive trend during the last 30 years. I think that's worth pointing out, because often in these discussions it seems like people think we're making no progress - but we are, even with the increasing numbers of migrants. It's too early to tell with the current refugees, and it's not like the immigrants won't be an economic burden for a long while, but in the long run (50+ years), I do believe it'll work out in Denmark's favour - especially looking at our shitty birth rate.
In the end some aspects of social norms/culture need to be broken down, especially with these assholes. Integration won't happen so long as people are allowed to keep this shit up, political correctness is just giving extremists fuel for making things worse on both sides.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50686721]Yet your end point is Whereas it should be about better logistics and integration mechanics employed by America, and the difference in demographics of the Muslims in USA vs the Muslims Europe is taking now. Socioeconomical backgrounds. Again, raw numbers comparing stuff is pretty pointless. All refugees could be in a ghetto in LA for all we know,[B] and the # of refugees per 1000 in LA could be 2500.[/B] But no, they are not, but even that is not the point, the point is the extreme amounts of factors you ignore.[/QUOTE] I really don't think it's possible for there to be 2500 refugees per 1000 people. Like, it's mathematically impossible, unless the refugees aren't people.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50686760]Wasnt it per locals?[/QUOTE] per inhabitants.
I think the most important things when dealing with a crisis like this are education and equality in the eyes of the law. Without wishing to go too deeply into the complexities of the situation, there certainly [I]are[/I] Syrians (and Iraqis) who are escaping from their countries for fear of the Civil War and ISIS spreading to their area. To simply say 'we won't take anyone in' is a solution, though in my opinion a cruel non-answer; it's a cop-out, essentially, because these people aren't going to magically disappear; they'll go to other countries, or they'll end up being killed or heavily oppressed (assuming the situation does not stabilise). That said, many of these refugees do have different belief systems to what is common in the majority of Western Europe and increasingly common in the USA. It's vital that we teach people the 'ground rules', just like you would if you were taking in a friend who's fallen upon hard times. And likewise, we must treat them like equals- we cannot demonise them and herd them all up in camps, but we also can't excuse their behaviour if it is strongly negative- perhaps we can excuse them being culture shocked, but that excuse is invalidated if they bring any physical harm to anybody else. By following these two principles (and also by spreading refugees around, rather than concentrating them in specific areas, which is historically precedented to be a recipe for disaster), we can help to make things as smooth as possible for all involved. And when the war is eventually over and things are more stable, we should help any refugees who wish to return- though personally I believe we should also not force them to leave, and should allow these refugees to apply for citizenship as well. Obviously, I'm just a random person at a computer, and these are difficult (and expensive) programs to run. But from an idealist and egalitarian perspective, I think this is probably the best option available.
Whenever a group of people are isolated from the rest of the country and put into small communities they tend to let their unquestioned views grow and become more radical. If the Swedish left are so scared of being called racist they should make homosexuality punishable by death for Muslims, and other religion/ethnic-based laws like what India and Nigeria already have.
Hmm, this might explain a few things when I visited Sweden...
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;50679295]More and more I find it difficult to comment on the European migration problem, as it's incomparable with the US. Largely, it's because our problems seem to be the opposite in some regards. It's far too easy to migrate into nations in Europe, while it's extremely difficult to (legally) migrate to the US. However, I would agree that Europe does have a problem with integration, as you'd be hard pressed to find migrant communities within the US that have the problems that Europe does.[/QUOTE] I feel like our harsher nationalism and immigration laws force immigrant communities to adapt to the US which makes integration easier. These have their own issues but it also forces legal and illegal groups to 'Americanize' so to speak. [editline]11th July 2016[/editline] As for this with Sweden, what they've done is actually the exact opposite from most Refugee programs. The US for example have purchased housing in smaller more rural towns because it's cheaper and easier to get refugees/immigrants used to things. We do have large chunks of ethnic neighborhoods but alot of that is changing. I know in my area we used to have a sizable Korean population but it's now shifting toward a west African area. Sweden hasn't had this happen before and I doubt it'll happen again.
Basically if you're gay and muslim fuck you I guess?
[QUOTE=Swilly;50689700]Sweden hasn't had this happen before and I doubt it'll happen again.[/QUOTE] Hopefully it won't happen again - but then again we have world class idiot politicians...
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50690245]Hopefully it won't happen again - but then again we have world class idiot politicians...[/QUOTE] Immigration isn't bad. I meant large enough migration that can change neighborhoods.
[QUOTE=Swilly;50690998]Immigration isn't bad. I meant large enough migration that can change neighborhoods.[/QUOTE] Immigration is never bad - it's just the insane amount that our politicians allowed in, without any form of background checks. If someone that looks and is 40 say they're 16 - they will automatically be allowed in as an "unaccompanied refugee child" and get special benefits, because the immigration services goes after stated age and aren't allowed to question it. If you don't believ me check out this insanity: [url]https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fvaxjonyheter.se%2Fflyktingpojke-misstanks-vara-45-ar-gammal-atalas-for-valdtakt-pa-12-aring%2F[/url] No wonder the world is laughing at us.
[QUOTE=!LORD M!;50691049]No wonder the world is laughing at us.[/QUOTE] Very little of the world is actively laughing at you holy shit what is with this persecution complex. Your country makes astronomically fewer gaffes than us, or the USA. Right now a lot of the world is looking at Britain with a worried glare and muttering of "are they sure they're okay?". A vast majority of the world is having a right chuckle at the US presidential election. And basically everyone but the North Koreans are losing their shit at some of the stuff they come out with. Comparatively, the world doesn't really talk about Sweden or your politics much at all. Your country is considered a pretty good bar to aim for in terms of general wellbeing of the population after all.
[IMG]http://puu.sh/pYc46/32b92ab18e.png[/IMG] But in all seriousness - I find this mind-boggling. A primary reason for Brexit was to avoid this from happening. It was a cultural decision, not an economic one. And even though Trump is a jackass, he has the diagnosis for mass-Muslim immigration correct - it is just a matter of how he will deal with it.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;50691734]Very little of the world is actively laughing at you holy shit what is with this persecution complex. Your country makes astronomically fewer gaffes than us, or the USA. Right now a lot of the world is looking at Britain with a worried glare and muttering of "are they sure they're okay?". A vast majority of the world is having a right chuckle at the US presidential election. And basically everyone but the North Koreans are losing their shit at some of the stuff they come out with. Comparatively, the world doesn't really talk about Sweden or your politics much at all. Your country is considered a pretty good bar to aim for in terms of general wellbeing of the population after all.[/QUOTE] Yeah, most of the hate I see are from Swedes who are venting or people from other countries who probably wouldn't be able to find Sweden on a map. We have a problem with immigration and integration though and that problem needs to be addressed just like any other problem. Our whole idea of multiculturalism is insane and will never work. That's not to say that multiculturalism is bad but our version is.
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