Sometimes the bad guys in video games had a point. - General

Solidus was no better than Big Boss in terms of morality. Infact, arguably in some ways he was worse. The children in Zanzibar Land imply that despite raising child soldiers, Big Boss wasn't a dick to his men (outside of player action), and Peace Walker and Phantom Pain both show a sense of equal respect between him and his soldiers. He even rescues enemies to convert them to allies commonly. In terms of TPP, the only people he treats harshly are those who harm one another pointlessly despite being allies, Huey for obvious reasons, and Eli, who constantly antagonizes him at every opportunity. He does [i]not[/i] like losing men, much less killing traitors unless they're just flatout irredeemable. Meanwhile Solidus explicitly murdered parents, took their children to raise them, aggressively beat them up and harshly trained them to kill via gunpowder in their food and so forth, and didn't do a damn thing to take care of them afterwards. He doesn't even remember Jack properly until they're face to face, and he merely regards him as the best of his soldiers and has no hesitation for strangling him or killing him for being an obstacle in his plans. Plus he planned to play every single associate, from Ocelot to Dead Cell, for suckers; while killing them wasn't exactly in his intent, he certainly didn't veil paranoia or contempt for them all (although this is a little understandable since Ocelot's got some infamy and what was left of Dead Cell were unstable). Big Boss was a soldier of passion for his comrades and for battle. Solidus was a soldier of logic for means to an end, and everyone was a pawn to him despite his urge for true patriotism.

[QUOTE=spekter;50773473]It still did it a lot better than FC3's in-your-face approach and completely unlikable main character. When Jason gives that big warrior speech then immediately goes back to being spooked by everything it just ruins the traction completely, but I guess that could be put down to the terrible voice actor. The Jackal filled the Kurtz role well and the main story overall adapted well into a modern scenario. Granted, Apocalypse Now is the be-all end-all for adaptations of the book but game-wise I still think Far Cry 2 on a narrative level worked best because it managed to adapt the core elements whilst retaining some individuality.[/QUOTE] Far cry 3 isn't really meant to have anything to do with HoD, at least not directly (you can argue there are some parallel themes if you paint broad enough strokes). But overall I'd say 3's about animalistic desire (and vg violence metacommentary), not imperialism or exploitation. [editline]25th July 2016[/editline] ITT: X did nothing wrong

what are the games in here besides Far Cry 4? so i don't run into spoiler's?

[QUOTE=Holt!;50773618]Dude I would have fucking loved being able to stomp a rebellion in Far Cry 4 with the military dudes. Playing as the bad guys is always great fun. A while ago I played a mission with the Facepunch ARMA 3 guys, where 3 people were sneaky beaky solid snake blufor, and we were guards defending an area, and the general rule was; "Act Stupid" There was even an option in the action menu to make the "!" noise and have an exclamation mark appear above your head. Playing as the bad guys is always fun. Just look at [b]Evil Genius[/b].[/QUOTE] Never has being a James Bond style villain been so fun. Oh and they'll never make a second game, why even live.

[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;50774643]what are the games in here besides Far Cry 4? so i don't run into spoiler's?[/QUOTE] The very beginning of the video has a spoiler-free list of all the games mentioned

[QUOTE=Holt!;50773618]Dude I would have fucking loved being able to stomp a rebellion in Far Cry 4 with the military dudes. Playing as the bad guys is always great fun. A while ago I played a mission with the Facepunch ARMA 3 guys, where 3 people were sneaky beaky solid snake blufor, and we were guards defending an area, and the general rule was; "Act Stupid" There was even an option in the action menu to make the "!" noise and have an exclamation mark appear above your head. Playing as the bad guys is always fun. Just look at Evil Genius.[/QUOTE]Crackdown is also like that, where you're stomping gangs into the ground that were secretly under funding by the Agency to scare the populace into submission for a New World Order. But it was fucking fun destroying gangs in a barrage of explosions and anarchy. You would be having so much fun that by the end you just didn't give a shit.

Kevin Spacey in Advanced Warfare had a point. The United States really was the biggest warmonger in existence and world might actually be peaceful with Atlas in control. It's just not clear whether Spacey's character really was trying to end conflict forever or if he was just using his son's death to take over the world.

[QUOTE=Chief Martini;50773950]Where's Saren? "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"[/QUOTE] I don't know about Saren, his brain was more or less goo from all the indoctrination by that time.

[video=youtube;U8ECXljenrE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8ECXljenrE[/video] [editline]25th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dr.C;50774819]Kevin Spacey in Advanced Warfare had a point. The United States really was the biggest warmonger in existence and world might actually be peaceful with Atlas in control. It's just not clear whether Spacey's character really was trying to end conflict forever or if he was just using his son's death to take over the world.[/QUOTE] [editline]25th July 2016[/editline] [video=youtube;uhhFXWy92hs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhhFXWy92hs#t=363.812517[/video] He might be alright overal He just wanted to unify us and stop corruption

[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;50773337]It's also weird how there weren't any citizens loyal to neutral to the Combine, like 20 years of occupation wouldn't give anyone Stockholm syndrome :v:.[/QUOTE]There were though; the Metrocops. Those guys are all unenhanced humans who willingly joined Civil Protection either because they sympathized with the Combine, wanted power, or wanted better living conditions. The remaining citizens are either neutral and are just trying to survive, or are Resistance members.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;50774259]Solidus was no better than Big Boss in terms of morality. Infact, arguably in some ways he was worse. The children in Zanzibar Land imply that despite raising child soldiers, Big Boss wasn't a dick to his men (outside of player action), and Peace Walker and Phantom Pain both show a sense of equal respect between him and his soldiers. He even rescues enemies to convert them to allies commonly. In terms of TPP, the only people he treats harshly are those who harm one another pointlessly despite being allies, Huey for obvious reasons, and Eli, who constantly antagonizes him at every opportunity. He does [I]not[/I] like losing men, much less killing traitors unless they're just flatout irredeemable. Meanwhile Solidus explicitly murdered parents, took their children to raise them, aggressively beat them up and harshly trained them to kill via gunpowder in their food and so forth, and didn't do a damn thing to take care of them afterwards. He doesn't even remember Jack properly until they're face to face, and he merely regards him as the best of his soldiers and has no hesitation for strangling him or killing him for being an obstacle in his plans. Plus he planned to play every single associate, from Ocelot to Dead Cell, for suckers; while killing them wasn't exactly in his intent, he certainly didn't veil paranoia or contempt for them all (although this is a little understandable since Ocelot's got some infamy and what was left of Dead Cell were unstable). Big Boss was a soldier of passion for his comrades and for battle. Solidus was a soldier of logic for means to an end, and everyone was a pawn to him despite his urge for true patriotism.[/QUOTE] He still had a few good traits to him. Very VERY few though. At least he gave Raiden an equal chance in their fight, for example, but at the same time, shot Olga right off the bat just for crossing him, so... Case of give and take...

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;50775979]but at the same time, shot Olga right off the bat just for crossing him, so... Case of give and take...[/QUOTE] I mean, Olga was basically the S3's version of Ocelot and Gray Fox mixed together, what with the spying for the Patriots. Solidus had a plan and he followed it. He was a bad person with an ultimately good cause. I mean he kind of did get the last laugh 2 games later but all it took was Ocelot melting his dead body and getting beat up by an old man with a fat ass.

[QUOTE=IceCKryss;50775950]There were though; the Metrocops. Those guys are all unenhanced humans who willingly joined Civil Protection either because they sympathized with the Combine, wanted power, or wanted better living conditions. The remaining citizens are either neutral and are just trying to survive, or are Resistance members.[/QUOTE] That, and keeping things simple for the sake of gameplay. If loyal citizens were thrown into the mix, it'd plant the seed of doubt in the player's mind that some citizens can't be trusted.

I wonder why they missed Kane, he also had point that the only way how humans can fast evolve is thru conflict, bloodshed, fanatism, extremism, dictators, wars and all the terrible things humans can do to each other (in short it's easy to find logic on the badly ugly things and argue it was the only option, what's hard is actually figure out the other option)

[QUOTE=Destroyox;50773312]Andrew Ryan[/QUOTE] andrew ryan wasn't on point on things, he was a libertarian

Outside of streets of rage it looks like there's a clear preference to late last gen titles, so it's not surprising that they seem to ignore some of the older villains like Solidus Snake and Dr. Breen.

Honestly if there's one villain that in the end seemed right, it had to be Julius from Saints Row. His idea for the Saints was to wipe out every other gang to keep the peace and unoppress the oppressed and tasked the protagonist with aiding that. Eventually he saw that the Saints was becoming just another hoodlum group. Drugs were still being pushed, innocent people were still dying. And worst of all, the person behind it was a complete sociopath he thought he could trust. The player was so unstable at that point, confronting him was out of the question. When you kill him in Saints Row 2, it feels like the player is just being greedy and removing a character that they think is a threat to them. You could tell Julius had no power, he was pretty much a loner by that point. Ultor helped Julius' vision of a Saints Row under no gang control become a reality, and he was very happy with this. It is upon him finding out that the protagonist is awake he feels the need to confront them, because he knows they are looking for revenge. You basically let this man's vision become a reality only to snatch it from under his feet because you're a piece of shit who just wants control and doesn't care about how they feel.

[QUOTE=ForgotPassword;50776091]They could have replaced Fable 3 with Loghain from Dragon age. Way better example of someone who did some crappy things for the sake of his kingdom.[/QUOTE] Yeah, Logain wasn't even a bad guy. He was just really paranoid that Orlais would reinvade which they probably would and wanted the power to protect Ferelden even if it meant allying with that piece of shit Howe

[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;50778005]andrew ryan wasn't on point on things, he was a libertarian[/QUOTE] Some people agree with that. Not saying they were 100% right.

[QUOTE=Chief Martini;50773950]Where's Saren? "Is submission not preferable to extinction?"[/QUOTE] If you thought Saren had a point, then you fell for the same trick that Saren did. Reapers don't negotiate, and Saren was arrogant to think he could, and that arrogance led him to being made a thrall of Sovereign. Saren wasn't an altruistic mastermind with a brilliant plan to save the galaxy, he was a megalomaniac who was betrayed by his own hubris.

no mention of the helghast from killzone? as far as i remember, the ISA are to blame for the wars that started and led to the events of the games [editline]26th July 2016[/editline] then again i haven't played in a while so i might be wrong

[QUOTE=ProfHappycat7;50778763]no mention of the helghast from killzone? as far as i remember, the ISA are to blame for the wars that started and led to the events of the games [editline]26th July 2016[/editline] then again i haven't played in a while so i might be wrong[/QUOTE] They were wronged and severely fucked over by the ISA in the past, sent to a death world practically. But the Helghast's response of Nazi-style blitzkrieg and genocide, morally-bankrupt officers and researchers (who created a planetary nuke with full intent on using it against the ISA), and sheer and ruthless brutality with seemingly no mercy takes away what few positive traits they as a whole had. Thus it came down to individual Helghast characters to find any good points, especially with Shadow Fall.

Another game which i feel qualifies would be Stalker:SoC The big bad in that game is the C-Conciousness / the scientists behind it. Their ultimate goal was to remove anger and violence from the human race thus making the world a better place which is undoubtably a good thing, naturally the bad thing about it would be that it's removing aspects of free will. But perhaps the other side of it is the fact that the Zone was being kept in 'check' by the C-Conciousness who were attempting to fix it. When you destroy it the zone gets bigger and unleashes more weird shit on the world. You, Strelock arguably make things infiantely worse. But on the negative side, monolith, brainscorcher, wish granter. alot of bad shit.

[QUOTE=ProfHappycat7;50778763]no mention of the helghast from killzone? as far as i remember, the ISA are to blame for the wars that started and led to the events of the games[/QUOTE] Isn't Helghans entire thing that the planet is fucked because of the ISA? Like, they knew the planet was fucked and the group who were using it for resource initially even avoided populating it, instead tried automating shit. Then a fight and an occupation of Vekta later, the now-Helghans didn't really have anywhere else to flee but to Helghan as it was the only planet that had infrastructure and wasn't being orbitally bombarded to fuck. The entire war that started it all being sourced from the imposition of tariffs on the Helghast Corporation. Killzone has quite a nice lump of lore surrounding the grey shooty shoots.

[QUOTE=ProfHappycat7;50778763]no mention of the helghast from killzone? as far as i remember, the ISA are to blame for the wars that started and led to the events of the games [editline]26th July 2016[/editline] then again i haven't played in a while so i might be wrong[/QUOTE] Problem is that the Helghast retaliated with total genocide and dictatorship when they found a good footing to lick their wounds, which was the opposite of what the ISA stand for and crossed the moral event horizon. They became unsympathetic, cool military gear and crazy speeches aside. When they invaded Vekta, they brought it to themselves to be attacked later on and have their leader kidnapped as planned.

[QUOTE=Destroyox;50773312]Kinda surprised Saren, Big Boss, Andrew Ryan, Dr. Breen, and Caesar aren't on this list. I mean there are definitely some arguments to be made that they were on point on things, even if their methods were wrong. And hell, those are all mainstream ones too! There's plenty of more that could make a list like this that aren't featured in popular games.[/QUOTE] Forget Big Boss. The Boss herself epitomizes this idea. [sp]She wasn't even really a villain; she willingly sacrificed her reputation and her life in order to prevent nuclear war. It was set up from the get-go that she had to die at Big Boss' hands, and she was aware of this.[/sp] ([sp]Even though even that what isn't really what happened, but that was the reason she was led to believe in any case.[/sp])

Pagan was the only reason i finished far cry 4

There were better entires that could have gone into this. And i can't really stand outsidexbox, their videos are alright but their humor and delivery are atrocious.

Far Cry 4 had such an interesting ending that was accessible from the first 5 minutes of the game. [sp]Just sit there. Don't go anywhere. Stay put at the into for 10 minutes, and then you win the game because Pagan really does just want you to lead[/sp] We like to shit on a lot of games these days for being mindless people shooters, but in amongst all those corpses are some good ideas.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50779862]Far Cry 4 had such an interesting ending that was accessible from the first 5 minutes of the game. [sp]Just sit there. Don't go anywhere. Stay put at the into for 10 minutes, and then you win the game because Pagan really does just want you to lead[/sp] We like to shit on a lot of games these days for being mindless people shooters, but in amongst all those corpses are some good ideas.[/QUOTE]When I found out about that ending I felt bad for killing him, it was just a misunderstanding after all.