• Dunkey tells it how it is
    167 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228670]Ye totally context matters, this might have been a stream of 100 of Dunks biggest fans that are completely familiar with his view of gay people and no one would give a shit and I'm sure he felt completely comfortable saying it. Parading it around outside that context though and saying "see! Dunkey just tellin it like it is haha yeah!" is completely missing the point[/QUOTE] dude have you ever seen a twitch chat lmao they spam black dude emotes every time a black guy is on screen and any time a man on man thing happens they spam rainbow kappa regardless of context and I assure you this happens in 90% of twitch channels relax
Rubs you won't come on top of this situation by digging yourself deeper, that's not how the world works.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228670]his view of gay people[/QUOTE] How many hoops did you have to jump through exactly to determine "his views of gay people" and land on the conclusion that dunkey's homophobic based on a single instance of him using the word faggot in a social situation.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228579]That's cool. [B]I'm sure you're the kind of person that would[/B][I][shit that you made up][/I][/QUOTE] Why are you bringing up a whole thing that never even happened? You're literally just saying "you'd be a bad person [B]if[/B] you did this!"
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228418]Using slurs only makes actual bigots think their views are acceptable while alienating the people that the slur usually targets but I mean hey if it was funny in middle school it must still be funny when you're nearly 30 right[/QUOTE] I know in elementary school they tell you that slurs and swear words are bad words to say at all, but if you're nearly 30 and can't understand the context of the way people use words you need to grow up.
[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52228468]I know plenty of gay people who frequently call others faggots. The word only has meaning when people assign it power.[/QUOTE] I get what you're saying, but there's a difference between people reclaiming a word that's historically been used against them and it being used by an outsider to that group. For the former, it's liberating, while for the latter, it alienates.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228418]Using slurs only makes actual bigots think their views are acceptable while alienating the people that the slur usually targets but I mean hey if it was funny in middle school it must still be funny when you're nearly 30 right[/QUOTE] Wow, who put a dick up your ass.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228418]Using slurs only makes actual bigots think their views are acceptable while alienating the people that the slur usually targets but I mean hey if it was funny in middle school it must still be funny when you're nearly 30 right[/QUOTE] I don't know if I'd go that far in condemning him for this particular incident, but I think there's truth to what you're saying. Normalizing these words doesn't get rid of their power, it only makes them more acceptable to throw around by actual bigots. I think Dunkey is a great guy, he's the man, but even good people can say bad things every once and a while. I don't see why it isn't common sense that using words associated with a certain class of people in an incredibly derogatory fashion would be harmful to the perceptions of the class in question.
stop replying to him please also twitch wouldn't do shit anyways
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;52228700]dude have you ever seen a twitch chat lmao they spam black dude emotes every time a black guy is on screen and any time a man on man thing happens they spam rainbow kappa regardless of context and I assure you this happens in 90% of twitch channels relax[/QUOTE] I think twitch chat is a problem too. I don't think you could argue that twitch chat is at best even a non-influence when it perpetuates some of the most bigoted attitudes that I've ever seen in an online space.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52228805]Normalizing these words doesn't get rid of their power,[/QUOTE]It really does though. If they become normalized, they lose a lot of their power because they become mundane and typical. [QUOTE]I don't see why it isn't common sense that using words associated with a certain class of people in an incredibly derogatory fashion would be harmful to the perceptions of the class in question.[/QUOTE]Because the word isn't being used in a derogatory fashion, that is the common sense. The context is the most important aspect. Was it used in a derogatory manner? No? Then its not derogatory. You could still argue that its an expletive or profanity, sure, but that has nothing to do with something being derogatory and is far less objectionable. Any word can be used to be derogatory if used in such a context. "Raccoon" and "Coon" became pretty major derogatory terms for black people just by being used as such, in that particular context. But that means nothing outside of that context.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228622]I was just making a joke it's not my fault you took it as an insult. PC culture uhg can't even make jokes these days[/QUOTE] How To Get Everyone Against You By Being A Passive Aggressive Chucklefuck Online: For Dummies!
If you cant tell the insanely obvious context of a joke that involves the words nigger, faggot, kike, wog, beaner, etc, that's pretty sad.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;52228835]It really does though. If they become normalized, they lose a lot of their power because they become mundane and typical.[/QUOTE] These words are not mundane and typical and will not become so by flippant use while they are already toxic and harmful. Words more typically fall out of use when they are used less due to negative perceptions, not more. [QUOTE]Because the word isn't being used in a derogatory fashion, that is the common sense. The context is the most important aspect. Was it used in a derogatory manner? No? Then its not derogatory. You could still argue that its an expletive or profanity, sure, but that has nothing to do with something being derogatory and is far less objectionable. Any word can be used to be derogatory if used in such a context. "Raccoon" and "Coon" became pretty major derogatory terms for black people just by being used as such, in that particular context. But that means nothing outside of that context.[/QUOTE] I think this is the crux of the matter and a fairly interesting one at that. "Context" is always used as the end-all-be-all for these arguments in why/why not a word is offensive. However, I think that's a bit reductionist. I think that context is just one angle that we can look at this problem at, one influence into the greater perception of the use of a word. Language is too complicated for us to just look at this one (admittedly large) concept of context and reduce the use of it to that alone. We also have to observe the historical use (and, indeed, context) of the word, the influence it holds on a greater audience, the current cultural understanding of that word, etc. So maybe the reductionist part of your argument really lies in rebranding "intent" as "context". The [I]intent[/I] was not derogatory, but the larger historical and cultural context of the word can give it that power regardless of intent. So indeed, it would be unfair for us to label Dunkey or anyone else as a bigot for this kind of slur use, but I think we can offer criticism on their use of them regardless. I think language is too complicated for us to really understand the implications of the flippant use of derogatory terms and slurs in casual conversation, but that's my take on it.
As long Dunkey doesn't say "Spaghetti and meatballs", he should be safe
Not 100% sure how to put this, but i'll try anyway. In my opinion, normalizing the use of slurs to refer to friends won't stop racists and homophobes from expressing their horrid views and emotions. You also can't really get rid of the horrible history the words carry. Also, using slurs to refer to each other creates situations where only a certain kind of person could say it, just making a divide. If a white person were to call his friends my niggas colloquially, he would get some nasty looks from other people, but not if he was black. I think ideally the words should just be forgotten, but racists and homophobes won't stop using them so that won't happen for a long time. disclaimer: i'm a half-nigger and a faggot, myself.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228438]Imagine you're an actual racist and you hear someone use the word nigger and make the same tired black joke they heard in school, you're probably going to think being a racist is ok around those people But if you want to say vaguely racist things and advertise to other people you're ok with them doing it don't let me stop you[/QUOTE] Language changes over time depending on who uses it and in what context. If you give it social restrictions then only people who do not respect those restrictions will use it (and those people WILL exist regardless of what you do). If only bigots ever say faggot or nigger or something, then they have complete control over the definitions of those words and their verbal weight will be preserved. Look at how /pol/ people take over symbols and memes as examples. Once they touched those concepts, no one else wanted to use them out fear of being associated with them. As a result they took complete control of definition over things like Pepe and Mac Tonight. This behavior is going to continue and if everyone stays away from the latest word or symbol that assholes use, then you will eventually have nothing left. You gave them total power over language.
I'm gay as shit and regularly use the word faggot. I really don't mind other people saying it as long as it isn't used in a way to be specifically offensive and derogratory against gay people. Then again I'm not an enormous pussy V:v:V.
[QUOTE=Naught;52228424]not really though? It's not said in a harmful way and I doubt many gays get offended by it, I certainly don't. it all depends on context and who's saying it.[/QUOTE]I'm gay and I don't mind people using "faggot". It all depends on the context; if someone's using it with the intention of degrading someone, then it is offensive, but if it's a joke, then it's a joke. [QUOTE=Rubs10;52228438]Imagine you're an actual racist and you hear someone use the word nigger and make the same tired black joke they heard in school, you're probably going to think being a racist is ok around those people[/QUOTE]Maybe, if the racist you're describing has the mind of a 3 year old.
Man what is you guy's problem he clearly said maggot.
I think people get too worked up over swear words I think if you got rid of the concept of "bad words" people would eventually stop using them so much
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228471]I mean it's obviously an example but if you can't see that I can see why you still defend the use of slurs[/QUOTE] You're literally complaining about using it in any context and using it at the same time you're contradicting you're own point and if you're not capable of seeing that then holy hell boyo you are dense [QUOTE=Rubs10;52228579]That's cool. I'm sure you're the kind of person that would crack of black joke to a white guy while knowing if you said it to a black guy they'd be pissed. And then you'll come here and argue that it's just a joke and words can't hurt people and it should be ok 100% of the time.[/QUOTE] I can 100% bet that Ganerumo is way smarter than that and would never do something like that its good that you assume things of his character but it tells me more about yourself than it does of him [QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52228587]You have a pedo joke as your title, you're hardly fucking better. Stop acting high and mighty.[/QUOTE] "Soda changed Rubs10's title" wasn't his doing [QUOTE=Rubs10;52228670]Ye totally context matters, this might have been a stream of 100 of Dunks biggest fans that are completely familiar with his view of gay people and no one would give a shit and I'm sure he felt completely comfortable saying it. Parading it around outside that context though and saying "see! Dunkey just tellin it like it is haha yeah!" is completely missing the point[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rubs10;52228644]No, I'm making a point about how most people offended by slurs generally have a good reason and it's not just because it's a slur. But yeah who cares how victims of hate crimes feel if it means criticizing someone I like.[/QUOTE] the only person who is giving "nigger" and "Faggot" power is you here No one here is offended but you and I find that funny
so sonic adventure 2 then
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52228862]These words are not mundane and typical and will not become so by flippant use while they are already toxic and harmful. Words more typically fall out of use when they are used less due to negative perceptions, not more.[/QUOTE]Its not about making the word fall out of use. Why do such a thing to begin with? Keep the word, and leave the toxic parts behind. Strip it of everything else. "Nigger" and "Nigga" are of course at their core the same, "Nigga" is just formed in the pronunciation of the "er" in "Nigger". But of course they are used in different contexts and ergo carry different, and the pronunciation is changed simply to help people distinguish the difference because of how divisive it has otherwise become and how hung up people are about it. Indeed, if a white boss who only has a professional relationship with a black employee called them, "My nigga." then even with the changed pronunciation people would likely see an issue with that. But with a group of longtime friends, a white friend might say that a black friend is "My nigger." as a term of endearment. And as long as the observer is able to suppress their own initial shock from hearing the word, then the context they are in should make it clear what the meaning actually is. [QUOTE]I think this is the crux of the matter and a fairly interesting one at that. "Context" is always used as the end-all-be-all for these arguments in why/why not a word is offensive. However, I think that's a bit reductionist. I think that context is just one angle that we can look at this problem at, one influence into the greater perception of the use of a word. Language is too complicated for us to just look at this one (admittedly large) concept of context and reduce the use of it to that alone. We also have to observe the historical use (and, indeed, context) of the word, the influence it holds on a greater audience, the current cultural understanding of that word, etc. So maybe the reductionist part of your argument really lies in rebranding "intent" as "context". The [I]intent[/I] was not derogatory, but the larger historical and cultural context of the word can give it that power regardless of intent. So indeed, it would be unfair for us to label Dunkey or anyone else as a bigot for this kind of slur use, but I think we can offer criticism on their use of them regardless. I think language is too complicated for us to really understand the implications of the flippant use of derogatory terms and slurs in casual conversation, but that's my take on it.[/QUOTE] History has little implications on modern usage, and culture is fleeting and fickle and hardly universal. Hence why "fag" to many is still a term for a cigarette. And someone who lacks an awareness for a culture that sees it as derogatory may use it without any knowledge of the culture's perceptions of it. Indeed, because words carry so many different implications and evolve so much through time, context in the moment will always be far more important than culture or history. The individual situation is the only moment where the word has any true meaning. The word may be used ten different ways in the span of an hour, but only by picking any specific one does it have a meaning. Otherwise it is just a marker for a meaning. Language gives common meanings and understandings to help in understanding a word in a particular situation, but those are broad and fixed, they cannot be aware of any situation the word is actually used. So while a dictionary may give a word one meaning, it can easily mean something entirely different within a context. Which is, for instance, how "coon" became a racial slur, and how "queer" became a homophobic slur, and then has been brought back. Language exists on a delay, it can only give definition after the fact, by checking all of those markers for all those words and collecting them in to the most common or recognizable meanings. But it cannot predict the future of those words, where they will go or how they will change. Its unlikely that twenty years ago, or even ten, anyone could possibly predict "emoji" would be such a common word in our language, overshadowing others like "emoticons"/"emotes". We can look on it now and see how we reached that point, but predicting it would have been impossible. So no, history and culture mean little because they are not reflections of the instant a word is used. That instant, which contains the context when the word is spoken, is the only thing that can truly define any word.
[QUOTE=TheFilmSlacker;52229077]As Carlin once said "It's context that makes words good or bad"[/QUOTE] Context is king. Context is always king. [quote] Objectively wrong theorycraft [/quote] Words fall into use or disuse based on many many factors, none of which are "it was a mean word and feels were triggered so someone's latte didn't taste as good afterward." Colloquialisms are an order of magnitude more likely to fall out favor simply by dint of time and changing social interactions.
I never understood why people have a hard time understanding that casual use of a word takes away its power. Personally, I'm gay and a lot of my friends call love to throw around the sexual slurs all the time. It's not meant to be offensive or to hurt me, it's just joking around. The words are desensitized for us, and if anyone were to call me a faggot intending it as an insult, I wouldn't care any more or less than if they'd lobbed any other generic insult at me. When you take these words and put them up on the untouchable platform; when you say anyone who says them is wrong and immoral; you are the one's that are making them hurtful because they are so taboo. It's similar to nazi jokes, honestly. How do you take away the fear that people have about persecution? How do you make it so people don't live in fear that there might one day be another Hitler? You laugh at it. You make it so ridiculous and obscene that anyone who thought it might be a good idea to do it again would be little more than a joke. That's how you take power away from someone.
Will you faggots just shut the fuck up and move on [video]https://youtu.be/Fcja4WFFzDw[/video] [video]https://youtu.be/H7C0vd-L5lg[/video]
[QUOTE=Rubs10;52228418]Using slurs only makes actual bigots think their views are acceptable while alienating the people that the slur usually targets but I mean hey if it was funny in middle school it must still be funny when you're nearly 30 right[/QUOTE] The problem is the more you censor a word the more powerful it is. If the word becomes common it becomes nothing more than a word and it loses all of its power.
[QUOTE=Sweater;52228898]As long Dunkey doesn't say "Spaghetti and meatballs", he should be safe[/QUOTE] S&M is fun
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;52229244]Will you faggots just shut the fuck up and move on[/QUOTE] is this faggot really pulling this move what a fag
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