its the smallest, smallest effort, not to say a word that offends so many people who still face daily discrimination (that you don't). the fact that people are unwilling to make such a minor change, and not say a word that has historically been used to put a group of people down, says it all.
neil said it well in reference to the jontron situation
[img]http://i.imgur.com/KvZDmbD.png[/img]
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229472]its the smallest, smallest effort, not to say a word that offends so many people who still face daily discrimination (that you don't). the fact that people are unwilling to make such a minor change, and not say a word that has historically been used to put a group of people down, says it all.
neil said it well in reference to the jontron situation
[img]http://i.imgur.com/KvZDmbD.png[/img][/QUOTE]
Yeah, doing nothing really takes the smallest effort. I wonder why we don't do that to solve all our problems.
Many slurs originally did not start as slurs, and many more words will continue to be turned into slurs. Being passive and letting language be controlled by people who actually mean minorities harm will make the problem worse. If you are offended by a word used in a non-bigoted context online, especially when it's not even directed at you, then that's your problem. No one but the offended can change that. The more these words are used with different context, the less offensive they become.
There was a time where calling someone a rascal was extremely offensive, now no one would care.
[QUOTE=Renegade Master;52229526]If you are offended by a word used in a non-bigoted context online, especially when it's not even directed at you, then that's your problem.[/QUOTE]
are you extending this to gay people? basically telling them to just get over it?
why are you so unwilling to waver on something that upsets people? especially something so reasonable as just not saying a slur word
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;52229419]The problem is the more you censor a word the more powerful it is. If the word becomes common it becomes nothing more than a word and it loses all of its power.[/QUOTE]
i've had gay jokes done at my expense by friends and i'm also willing to dish out some pretty non PC jokes back at them , but speaking for myself here, coming from a place where faggot one of the first slurs you learn here (because the slang term here is literally just duck when translated so it doesn't sound bad compared to other insults, so before fuck we knew fag) it didn't suddenly become not hurtful when you got called one with malice behind it
faggot will stay a hurtful word for gay people because there's still a derogatory connotation behind the word to this day. and this stupid idea that we can just eliminate the negative meaning behind slurs if we just use them enough is frankly one of the weirdest movements I've seen from progressives on the internet honestly.
Faggot definitely has meaning outside of bad term for gay. I don't see why that is a bad thing. Ditto with nigga, though obviously there's debate there since it can't​ be used by just anyone like faggot.
[editline]14th May 2017[/editline]
Why can't faggot evolve from a slur to something else? It wasn't originally a slur.
[editline]14th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229546]are you extending this to gay people? basically telling them to just get over it?
why are you so unwilling to waver on something that upsets people? especially something so reasonable as just not saying a slur word[/QUOTE]
There's plenty of gays itt that don't give a shit about the word faggot
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;52229557]Faggot definitely has meaning outside of bad term for gay. I don't see why that is a bad thing. Ditto with nigga, though obviously there's debate there since it can't​ be used by just anyone like faggot.
[editline]14th May 2017[/editline]
Why can't faggot evolve from a slur to something else? It wasn't originally a slur.[/QUOTE]
because not only was its usage as extremely derogatory not that long ago, but ongoing. unfortunately society attitude toward gay people is not far along enough for this and won't be for a long time. there are countries where people are still being executed for being gay.
and you won't even stop saying a single word! cool!
[editline]15th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;52229557]
There's plenty of gays itt that don't give a shit about the word faggot[/QUOTE]
this is like the 'i have black friends' argument
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229546]are you extending this to gay people? basically telling them to just get over it?
why are you so unwilling to waver on something that upsets people? especially something so reasonable as just not saying a slur word[/QUOTE]
man how many times have you called someone a faggot, i know you have in the past.
were you just a bigot then?
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52229592]man how many times have you called someone a faggot, i know you have in the past.
were you just a bigot then?[/QUOTE]
not since i was a teenager. so potentially 10 years ago now? because i grew up and realised how much it sucks
i'm not saying i was a bigot or that people who use it outside of intentionally being hurtful of gays
i'm saying they're assholes or ignorant. and they're still using it to mean something very negative. it's not a complicated situation.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229583]
this is like the 'i have black friends' argument[/QUOTE]
As a gay dude, lmao no it really is not. Please stop acting like you speak for us, ya faggot.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229598]not since i was a teenager. so potentially 10 years ago now? because i grew up and realised how much it sucks
i'm not saying i was a bigot or that people who use it outside of intentionally being hurtful of gays
i'm saying they're assholes or ignorant. and they're still using it to mean something very negative. it's not a complicated situation.[/QUOTE]
what if i told you im looking at a post right now where you called me a faggot in 2011 though
I don't think you are an asshole for saying it then or even a bigot because it was clearly meant as a joke
[QUOTE=TheFilmSlacker;52229590]I'm queer as fuck and I don't care.
I know I don't represent all people in the LGBT community, but I'm pretty sure most of us don't care unless it's used hatefully against someone because of their sexuality.[/QUOTE]
that's great that it doesn't hurt you. but it still hurts a lot of people and just isn't a cool thing to say. why is it so hard to substitute it for something else? is it worth running that risk of upsetting people who face discrimination? why is it so hard?
[editline]15th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52229612]what if i told you im looking at a post right now where you called me a faggot in 2011 though
I don't think you are an asshole for saying it then or even a bigot because it was clearly meant as a joke[/QUOTE]
then i'd say that sucks that i did that and i regret the post and apologize for it
[editline]15th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crimor;52229610]As a gay dude, lmao no it really is not. Please stop acting like you speak for us, ya faggot.[/QUOTE]
i think if anything there's this niche subset of people who grew up online seeing the typed word flung around countless times every day that it might have lost it's impact in casual, written form. if people around you started saying 'that's so gay' or 'what a fag' all the time it would be fine? even though they're constantly reinforcing those things as having negative connotations? that seems really awful to me!
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229546]are you extending this to gay people? basically telling them to just get over it?
why are you so unwilling to waver on something that upsets people? especially something so reasonable as just not saying a slur word[/QUOTE]
There will always be people who will be upset with what you say, whether it's an opinion or just a word that you said. It isn't worth checking yourself for someone you will never meet online just because you cracked some joke with some friends. The internet isn't real life.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229613] if people around you started saying 'that's so gay' or 'what a fag' all the time it would be fine? even though they're constantly reinforcing those things as having negative connotations? that seems really awful to me![/QUOTE]
Funny thing, people around me do that a lot, do you know why I don't give a shit? They're also gay.
Context is fucking everything man, we don't give a shit about the word, we give a shit about the bigoted shitheel that uses it in a bigoted context. So do us a favour and go irritate those people instead of telling gay people what they can and cannot do, thanks.
[QUOTE=Renegade Master;52229634]The internet isn't real life.[/QUOTE]
see this is where you're wrong though. i used to think that too. the internet is just an extension of real life. it's a lot more vulgar due to anonymity but we're all real life people. 'the internet isn't real life' as a sentence just makes no sense at all. everything we experience is part of our real life. we're two people communicating our opinions to eachother. this isn't VR where nothing is real. both of us are explaining our very real opinions. and many genuinely bigoted people also use the internet as a platform for hate speech. how is none of this real life?
[editline]15th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crimor;52229636]Funny thing, people around me do that a lot, do you know why I don't give a shit? They're also gay.
Context is fucking everything man, we don't give a shit about the word, we give a shit about the bigoted shitheel that uses it in a bigoted context. So do us a favour and go irritate those people instead of telling gay people what they can and cannot do, thanks.[/QUOTE]
i didn't come into a gay chat thread, this thread is full of people of all walks of life.
So again, why don't you go after those genuinely bigoted people before nitpicking at people who obviously are not?
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229647]
i didn't come into a gay chat thread, this thread is full of people of all walks of life.[/QUOTE]
Yet many gay people told you they didn't give a shit and to stop whiteknighting, it's honestly more insulting than a streamer calling me a faggot would ever be.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52228862]These words are not mundane and typical and will not become so by flippant use while they are already toxic and harmful.[/QUOTE]
They not only will, they already are on their way to becoming that, and have been for a few years now.
[QUOTE=Duck M.;52228862]We also have to observe the historical use (and, indeed, context) of the word, the influence it holds on a greater audience, the current cultural understanding of that word, etc.
So maybe the reductionist part of your argument really lies in rebranding "intent" as "context". The [I]intent[/I] was not derogatory, but the larger historical and cultural context of the word can give it that power regardless of intent.[/QUOTE]
Why does how other people long ago used a word give any noticeable amount of power compared to much more important things like the intention of the word, the context it's used in, and the [i]current[/i] perception of it in society?
Words have historical context that influence how they are used but the perception of a word is always changing. Its history got it here but we can't just ignore the reality that the perception of it, like every other word in every language ever, is changing, this time for the better, yet you guys want to hold onto that specific part of history for some reason.
[QUOTE=Crimor;52229653]So again, why don't you go after those genuinely bigoted people before nitpicking at people who obviously are not?[/QUOTE]
how has 'don't use a slur word' become nitpicking?
[editline]15th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Crimor;52229653]So again, why don't you go after those genuinely bigoted people before nitpicking at people who obviously are not?
Yet many gay people told you they didn't give a shit and to stop whiteknighting, it's honestly more insulting than a streamer calling me a faggot would ever be.[/QUOTE]
look, the last thing i'm trying to be is offensive, but telling me i'm a white knight because i'm against derogatory and slur language is pretty messed. as i said it's great you're not hurt by it, i don't wish that feeling on anyone. but your mindset is absolutely not shared by the wider lgbt community. and i'm not telling gay people what they can and can't say, dunkey isn't gay. but i mean, i can't win that argument against you because i'm a straight (enough) dude. being more offended that i'm against using the word than people using it intending to offend seems like kind of messed up hyperbole.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229647]see this is where you're wrong though. i used to think that too. the internet is just an extension of real life. it's a lot more vulgar due to anonymity but we're all real life people. 'the internet isn't real life' as a sentence just makes no sense at all. everything we experience is part of our real life. we're two people communicating our opinions to eachother. this isn't VR where nothing is real. both of us are explain our very real opinions. and many genuinely bigoted people also use the internet as a platform for hate speech. how is none of this real life?[/QUOTE]
By "The internet isn't real life" I mean that the social etiquette is different than real life conversation because of the anonymity and how many more people your messages reach. That needs to be taken into account, and the fact you are talking to real people does not change that. The reason people attempt to treat internet conversations like personal ones is because of the de-anonymization of the internet caused by the large increase in social media prevalence in the late 2000's (which i think was a mistake, you will never fully de-anonymize the internet). Your messages are exposed to a much larger audience online than in person, so any effort you expend to censor yourself will increase exponentially the more people you expose yourself to. Most of the time, you aren't just talking to a circle of friends on message boards, image boards, or sites like YouTube. This is the price you pay for the information the internet gives you access to.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229598]not since i was a teenager. so potentially 10 years ago now? because i grew up and realised how much it sucks
i'm not saying i was a bigot or that people who use it outside of intentionally being hurtful of gays
i'm saying they're assholes or ignorant. and they're still using it to mean something very negative. it's not a complicated situation.[/QUOTE]
Please apologise for this comment you made only a couple of years ago, it is highly offensive to the mentally disabled: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1467307&p=47806045&viewfull=1#post47806045[/url]
[QUOTE=Noss;52229692]Please apologise for this comment you made only a couple of years ago, it is highly offensive to the mentally disabled: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1467307&p=47806045&viewfull=1#post47806045[/url][/QUOTE]
well, you're right though, it is. so i am sorry for it. i could have just said stupid!
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229661]but your mindset is absolutely not shared by the wider lgbt community.[/QUOTE]
Literally every gay person I've ever met either never gave a shit or stopped giving a shit like over 15 years ago man, so sorry that I'm not believing you when you say that. Hell I don't think I've heard anyone call me a faggot in years that was bigoted, it's mainly banter between gay people.
Like I wish our problems were so few that we gave a shit about some random streamer calling a poll faggots but honestly it's helping more than it's hurting, if you make things taboo you give the people who still use those words power, how'd the ban on alcohol in the US go again.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229705]well, you're right though, it is. so i am sorry for it. i could have just said stupid![/QUOTE]
but then the point you were attempting to make would have lacked some of its oomph, would it have not?
[QUOTE=Rusty100;52229705]well, you're right though, it is. so i am sorry for it. i could have just said stupid![/QUOTE]
Stupid is also a slur for the mentally disabled.
[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;52229556]i've had gay jokes done at my expense by friends and i'm also willing to dish out some pretty non PC jokes back at them , but speaking for myself here, coming from a place where faggot one of the first slurs you learn here (because the slang term here is literally just duck when translated so it doesn't sound bad compared to other insults, so before fuck we knew fag) it didn't suddenly become not hurtful when you got called one with malice behind it
faggot will stay a hurtful word for gay people because there's still a derogatory connotation behind the word to this day. and this stupid idea that we can just eliminate the negative meaning behind slurs if we just use them enough is frankly one of the weirdest movements I've seen from progressives on the internet honestly.[/QUOTE]
i mean no duh it's gonna be insulting if you use it in an insulting way, you can do that with pretty much any word, but faggot should really be offensive only when it's meant to hurt you, otherwise i don't see a problem with it.
[QUOTE=TheFilmSlacker;52229721]Rusty made a mistake can we leave him alone please he's only human :c[/QUOTE]
my mistakes being any slurs i've used in the past - i am steadfast in my belief that 'fag' and 'faggot' are not okay things to say outside of saying them as a gay person
but i'm not the boss of anyone, say whatever you want.
[QUOTE=Blazedol;52229722]i mean no duh it's gonna be insulting if you use it in an insulting way, you can do that with pretty much any word, but faggot should really be offensive only when it's meant to hurt you, otherwise i don't see a problem with it.[/QUOTE]
Im not sure in following this thought process that doesn't boil down to " i want to call people faggots and not get criticized for it because I don't consider myself homophobic".
Why are you so adamant on using it? Is faggot really such an important word in your vocabulary that you get annoyed at the fact that you can't just use it freely without getting dirty looks?
[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;52229762]Im not sure in following this thought process that doesn't boil down to " i want to call people faggots and not get criticized for it because I don't consider myself homophobic".
Why are you so adamant on using it? Is faggot really such an important word in your vocabulary that you get annoyed at the fact that you can't just use it freely without getting dirty looks?[/QUOTE]
Can we please stop with the argument of "you're defending it so you must be a closet homophobe dying to say faggot all the time".
That's a completely bullshit argument and you know it.
[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;52229762]Im not sure in following this thought process that doesn't boil down to " i want to call people faggots and not get criticized for it because I don't consider myself homophobic".
Why are you so adamant on using it? Is faggot really such an important word in your vocabulary that you get annoyed at the fact that you can't just use it freely without getting dirty looks?[/QUOTE]
i think there's some miscommunication here dawg. faggot isn't a word i [I]have[/I] to say, and i'm not going to go to some random stranger and call him a faggot without context. and hey if you don't want to say it yourself that's cool, nobody's forcing you, but trying to say "no, you can't say this, fuck context" to a different person seems just as douchey as calling someone a faggot, but that's just me.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;52229783]Can we please stop with the argument of "you're defending it so you must be a closet homophobe dying to say faggot all the time".
That's a completely bullshit argument and you know it.[/QUOTE]
That's more projecting on your part considering I didn't call anyone here a go homophobe. The fact that you instantly went to defend yourself against a supposed accusation Is pretty odd though.
[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;52229762]Im not sure in following this thought process that doesn't boil down to " i want to call people faggots and not get criticized for it because I don't consider myself homophobic".
Why are you so adamant on using it? Is faggot really such an important word in your vocabulary that you get annoyed at the fact that you can't just use it freely without getting dirty looks?[/QUOTE]
I'm a homophobe
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