wow nothing gets me more excited and immersed on a [I]debut announcement[/I] trailer than real people walking around hallways and talking in really dark rooms
[editline]10th June 2014[/editline]
also wow nice concept footage that'd be really fucking cool if this was a kickstarter and not an acclaimed AAA studio
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;45067598]Casey hudson needs to hang himself[/QUOTE]
For fucks sake, it was just a disappointing videogame, and it's been over 2 years since it came out. Bioware fucked up, Casey Hudson lost his way from his original vision on the first game, but is this hatred still necessary?
[QUOTE=Skyward;45067568]ME's combat never had a unique feel to begin with.
1 was a shitty attempt at third person shooting, 2 was a completely shitty attempt at GOW, and 3 was a competent attempt at GOW.[/QUOTE]
But at least ME1 wasn't a copy of a preexisting game.
everything after me1 was shit
the series should never see the light of day again
[QUOTE=Fayez;45067643]But at least ME1 wasn't a copy of a preexisting game.[/QUOTE]
There was nothing unique about it though.
It wasn't a copy of another game, but it was just a very VERY poor attempt at derivative TPS.
Bioware must really hate their fans if they are bringing back the writer from ME3, didn't they also think everybody was an idiot and didn't understand how "great" the story was? I thought they said something along those lines
Also that armor looks like Fucking Spartan IV armor from Halo 4
[QUOTE=Ashes;45067758]Also that armor looks like Fucking Spartan IV armor from Halo 4[/QUOTE]
Whoa whoa whoa, slow down now.
Nothing but Halo 4 armor is that bad.
[QUOTE=Skyward;45067745]There was nothing unique about it though.
It wasn't a copy of another game, but it was just a very VERY poor attempt at derivative TPS.[/QUOTE]
But instead of dropping it completely and copying a combat system from a different game they should have refined and built upon the old one.
I'm not saying that ME1's combat was great, it wasn't, but it had promise.
[QUOTE=Fayez;45067852]But instead of dropping it completely, and copying a combat system from a different game, why didn't they refine and build upon the old one?
I'm not saying that ME1's combat was all that great, it wasn't, but it had promise.[/QUOTE]
I don't think so
It was pretty mediocre and refining it lead to what we got really.
[QUOTE=Fayez;45067852]But instead of dropping it completely and copying a combat system from a different game they should have refined and built upon the old one.
I'm not saying that ME1's combat was great, it wasn't, but it had promise.[/QUOTE]
Why try to iterate on a bad design when you can make a good design from scratch? (or steal it from Gears of War, whatever).
Mass Effect 3 had some really good moments, like convincing the Batarians to stop being cunts and help, or Operation: Tuchanka. It also had some of the worst moments, like the intro, or every part of the Citadel being lifeless, or the ending, or the revised ending which was also worse because it tried to explain the bullshit AND gave a huge "Fuck you" to people who disliked the original shitty ending.
To be completely honest, I was going to write off Bioware until the Citadel DLC, that bought them one more shot with me. Dragon Age Inquisition will either save or sink Bioware in my eyes.
[QUOTE=lexus04;45067403]oh fuck off
if you have to tell us how great your game is gonna be, you've effectively failed at showing us that[/QUOTE]
yeh clearly they should have came on and said "hey guys this game is gonna be shite."
[QUOTE=General J;45067601]wow nothing gets me more excited and immersed on a [I]debut announcement[/I] trailer than real people walking around hallways and talking in really dark rooms
[editline]10th June 2014[/editline]
also wow nice concept footage that'd be really fucking cool if this was a kickstarter and not an acclaimed AAA studio[/QUOTE]
They did the same thing with the Battlefront 3 trailer and showed even less gameplay and people were fucking blown away.
The biggest fuck you was how they completely wiped out the Geth and killed EDI with the ending.
Like what the fuck?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;45068419]The biggest fuck you was how they completely wiped out the Geth and killed EDI with the ending.
Like what the fuck?[/QUOTE]
Well, assuming you chose Destroy that is.
But yeah, nothing about the ending fit with the rest of the series, nor did it make any sense within its own game. I think we've beaten the ending to death though :v:
as someone who never played mass effect 3, can you give me a synapsis of the shitty ending? It's never been a series I've picked up for some reason but I don't really want to at all.
[QUOTE=fudge blood;45068712]as someone who never played mass effect 3, can you give me a synapsis of the shitty ending? It's never been a series I've picked up for some reason but I don't really want to at all.[/QUOTE]
Obviously massive spoilers for those who haven't beaten the series yet:
If you were to sum it up in a single sentence it would be that the ending was tonally and thematically disconnected from the rest of the narrative (both in Mass Effect 3 and the trilogy as a whole), logically inconsistent, and forgot the whole epilogue and "your choices matter" concept that Mass Effect was defined by.
Longer explanation, with the ending being the one we got in the Extended Cut:
After punching a hole in the Reaper defenses surrounding Earth by throwing an [B]almighty[/B] fleet at them and knocking out some heavy shit down in London, Shepard and Anderson travel to the Citadel (which had been repositioned above Earth for the Reapers to defend and use for processing) using what is effectively a space elevator. The Illusive Man beats them to it, convinced through his own insanity and Reaper indoctrination that he can control them and that outright destruction of the Reapers is unnecessary. Shepard sees right through this and kills The Illusive Man (in a very Saren-like fashion), but Anderson is fatally wounded. Shepard slumps down next to Anderson, overlooking Earth as the Crucible (basically the magical macguffin that'll win the war) connects to the Citadel, and they have a genuinely heartfelt final conversation before Anderson passes away.
And y'know what? All of this stuff is great. Really, if the game had ended [I]right there[/I] and gave us a text epilogue a la Dragon Age, I would have been fucking ecstatic. It's what happens next that destroys everything.
Admiral Hackett then radios Shepard, telling him the Crucible isn't working. Great. So, Shepard passes the fuck out trying to figure out what's going on, and some magic elevator that he just happens to pass out on lifts him up to the Crucible. Up there, we meet the Catalyst, a heretofore unknown character that's about to ruin everything we ever thought about the Mass Effect universe. Essentially, the Catalyst is a hyper-advanced program that controls the Reapers actions and directives. Because it has been around for eons and has observed the races of the galaxy countless times over, it has reached what it finds to be an inevitable conclusion: Synthetic life and Organic life can never truly coexist peacefully, and once galactic society advances sufficiently to create said life, the Reapers perform a "cleansing," basically hitting the RESET button. This isn't an inherently bad concept on its own merit, but it contradicts what has happens in Mass Effect 3 (the Quarians and Geth achieving peace, as well as EDI's entire character arc), and it's a theme that the game NEVER brought up until this point. Basically, it just doesn't fit; it's an ending for a different game.
Moving on, after Shepard and the Catalyst have their little chat, the Catalyst presents Shepard with an option to either Destroy the Reapers, Control them, or perform Synthesis on all organic life (or just give the fuck up and let the Reapers win, which honestly doesn't feel like a bad option). Outright destruction of the Reapers is what we've been building towards for three games now, and just about every major story arc in all three games has told us that CONTROL is either outright impossible, or just impossibly foolish due to the nature of indoctrination. But now, inexplicably, it's an option and Shepard can sacrifice his entire being, save for his consciousness, and control the Reapers as he so chooses. This is COMPLETELY counter to everything Saren and The Illusive Man stood for. Bizarre, right? Then there's SYNTHESIS, and this is the [I]really[/I] weird one. Essentially, Shepard is vaporized in some magical beam and, in a giant pulse of energy, the DNA of every living thing from plants to animals is rewritten in an instant, combining the supposed best traits of synthetic and organic life together. Fucking WHAT? First off, that shouldn't be possible. Secondly, it's a cop out. Thirdly, it has NOTHING to do with anything we've ever done. Honestly, the only two "valid" endings relative to the rest of the trilogy are Destroy and Surrender, because at least those are thematically appropriate.
Now, regardless of what ending you choose, you're presented with a very brief epilogue explaining your effect on the galaxy and what becomes of your friends. It's not bad, even if it's a bit lacking. Biggest problem is that it doesn't do much to represent your choices, which is what the whole series was about.
Basically, the ending after Anderson passing away was just a mess. The best part of it is the song.
What do you mean "nothing exciting?" They're working on it, that's exciting enough for me.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;45067991]Why try to iterate on a bad design when you can make a good design from scratch? (or steal it from Gears of War, whatever)[/QUOTE]
Reiterate, remake from scratch, I don't care, I just don't like the blatant copy paste of GOW.
[QUOTE]To be completely honest, I was going to write off Bioware until the Citadel DLC, that bought them one more shot with me. Dragon Age Inquisition will either save or sink Bioware in my eyes.[/QUOTE]
Citadel should've been the ending, DAI should be a good indication on how ME4 will be.
I felt that ME3 was just 2/3rds finished, and that it was rushed as fuck.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;45068821]
Then there's SYNTHESIS, and this is the [I]really[/I] weird one. Essentially, Shepard is vaporized in some magical beam and, in a giant pulse of energy, the DNA of every living thing from plants to animals is rewritten in an instant, combining the supposed best traits of synthetic and organic life together. Fucking WHAT? First off, that shouldn't be possible. Secondly, it's a cop out. Thirdly, it has NOTHING to do with anything we've ever done.[/QUOTE]
Actually, Synthesis has been mentioned in the narrative before. Saren was obsessed with the idea. Not a whole lot of people seem to have picked up on it though. At one point in ME1, he states verbatim "The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, and the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."
Saren didn't want to kill all organics in the galaxy. Saren was duped into believing that by following Sovereign's word, organic civilization would be "synthesized" into superior lifeforms. Hence the whole "union of flesh and steel" thing. And it makes perfect sense, too. In ME3 we're told that Synthesis is one of the things that the Catalyst/Reapers wish to ultimately achieve.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;45067991]
To be completely honest, I was going to write off Bioware until the Citadel DLC, that bought them one more shot with me. Dragon Age Inquisition will either save or sink Bioware in my eyes.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that the one with the Tali sing-a-long?
[QUOTE=fudge blood;45068712]as someone who never played mass effect 3, can you give me a synapsis of the shitty ending? It's never been a series I've picked up for some reason but I don't really want to at all.[/QUOTE]Pre-revision: [sp]Shepard fights his way to a device which will supposedly let them defeat the Reapers if repurposed, but is stripped of fighting abilities due to the physical and mental taxes of facing off against both a Reaper defense and the Illusive Man on the way. After he gets there he is then abducted by the a.i. "spirit" of the device, which tells Shepard that Reapers were created to massacre synthetic and organic lifeforms when they reach a certain stage of society so that they don't advance enough to completely kill off each other. Spirit then plops Shepard in front of three devices. Fiddling with device 1 destroys all artificial life everywhere, fiddling with device 2 allows Shepard to mind-meld with and take over all Reapers at the expense of his own physical form, and fiddling with device 3 fuses all organic and artificial life.
None of this really matters in hindsight, though, since he also slips in that using any device also overloads and destroys every mass relay. With everyone now stranded in a solar system sporting nothing of note but a partially-glassed earth... maybe the Krogans will survive. By eating everyone else.[/sp]
Post revision: [sp]Using any device now only damages the relays enough to be rendered inoperable, but they could theoretically still be repaired in time. Shepard can now get extra information from/argue with the Spirit before making a choice, and in later DLC a character is added somewhere else to clarify that the a.i. spirit is using wonky logic because it's been driven crazy/corrupted over time and not because of bad writing. A "new" ending is also added where you attack the spirit or turn down all the options, but it essentially just throws up a "You Died" screen and tells you to go choose a real ending.[/sp]
[QUOTE=haloguy234;45068929]Actually, Synthesis has been mentioned in the narrative before. Saren was obsessed with the idea. Not a whole lot of people seem to have picked up on it though. At one point in ME1, he states verbatim "The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, and the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."
Saren didn't want to kill all organics in the galaxy. Saren was duped into believing that by following Sovereign's word, organic civilization would be "synthesized" into superior lifeforms. Hence the whole "union of flesh and steel" thing. And it makes perfect sense, too. [B]In ME3 we're told that Synthesis is one of the things that the Catalyst/Reapers wish to ultimately achieve.[/B][/QUOTE]
So why didn't they?
I mean, they had the magical green beam right there.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45068941]So why didn't they?
I mean, they had the magical green beam right there.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why they didn't. Everyone knows that the last third of ME3 was when everything went to shit and the entire franchise was retconned. You should be asking Casey Hudson and Mac Walters that question, not me.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;45068962]I don't know why they didn't. Everyone knows that the last third of ME3 was when everything went to shit and the entire franchise was retconned. You should be asking Casey Hudson and Mac Walters that question, not me.[/QUOTE]
I'd argue the franchise started going to shit since Mass Effect 2, or at the very least from the very start of ME3, but alright.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;45068974]I'd argue the franchise started going to shit since Mass Effect 2, or at the very least from the very start of ME3, but alright.[/QUOTE]
You're absolutely right, it did. ME2 was pretty good at the time of its release, but when you step back and observe its place in the scope of the franchise it's basically a whole game of fluff and filler and no actual content related to the grand story of the series. The only thing ME2 keeps in relation to the rest of the franchise are the undertones and themes.
ME2's entire story was more like that of a spinoff title set in the same universe.
But that is what the Reapers were doing really, just in like a twisted mirror way. Instead of going the Shepherd route everybody loves everybody way, the Reapers were like "fuck it, let's literally kill everything and turn it into more Reapers"
[QUOTE=haloguy234;45068929]Actually, Synthesis has been mentioned in the narrative before. Saren was obsessed with the idea. Not a whole lot of people seem to have picked up on it though. At one point in ME1, he states verbatim "The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, and the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."
Saren didn't want to kill all organics in the galaxy. Saren was duped into believing that by following Sovereign's word, organic civilization would be "synthesized" into superior lifeforms. Hence the whole "union of flesh and steel" thing. And it makes perfect sense, too. In ME3 we're told that Synthesis is one of the things that the Catalyst/Reapers wish to ultimately achieve.[/QUOTE]
Much as I hate to say it, and as much as I used to hold onto that idea, I don't think it holds much water anymore. Proper narrative buildup involves taking the same concept and, through repetition and adding onto said concept, everything flows to an appropriate, if not entirely expected resolution. [B]Even if[/B] what Saren said was indeed an allusion to the Synthesis ending, that was the only time it was ever mentioned. Mass Effect 2 didn't even touch the idea, nor did 98% of Mass Effect 3, nor the preceding 90% of Mass Effect 1. It's a one-off.
What Mass Effect DID reinforce was this:
1) Triumph against overwhelming odds is possible when differences are put aside and disparate races and ideals work alongside one another. Even AssholeShepard has this to an extent.
2) The Reapers are (largely) faceless, malevolent beings hell-bent on keeping the galaxy under [I]their[/I] control through genetic manipulation of sentient beings and precisely timed galactic purges to prevent a society from growing powerful enough to defeat them. All three games reiterated this until it was effectively gospel.
3) Controlling or cooperating with the Reapers is doomed to failure, no matter how strong the will of the person attempting it. Saren demonstrated this, The Illusive Man demonstrated this, the Geth demonstrated this, and hundreds of unfortunate underlings demonstrated this. It just doesn't work.
4) Peace, or at the least, coexistence between synthetic and organic life IS possible, as demonstrated by the Geth/Quarian conflict in Mass Effect 2 and 3, and EDI's character arc in both those games as well. Granted, there is a potential Shepard path that contradicts this so I won't back it too strongly.
NONE of that is backed by Mass Effect 3's ending, much less that of the Synthesis option. As I said earlier, if we accept the themes of the series as they were presented to us over the course of three games, the only two [B]valid[/B] options are outright destruction or what is essentially "Fight conventionally and fail."
I think the most disappointing aspect of this trailer is how astoundingly not Mass Effect everything they're showing is. Seriously, without the music and commentary from the developers, I would've had NO fucking clue that what I was seeing had ANYTHING to do with Mass Effect.
In the trailer they talk about astounding new developments in story and narrative--and that's great. That's what Bioware does. But they completely fail to mention or revisit what makes that MASS EFFECT. Or how these developments will be at-all relevant to the universe we fell in love with. Nothing in the video looks remotely familiar to the series, and from what I've seen, they might as-well be making a completely different game and titling it 'Mass Effect'.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;45068989]Much as I hate to say it, and as much as I used to hold onto that idea, I don't think it holds much water anymore. Proper narrative buildup involves taking the same concept and, through repetition and adding onto said concept, everything flows to an appropriate, if not entirely expected resolution. [B]Even if[/B] what Saren said was indeed an allusion to the Synthesis ending, that was the only time it was ever mentioned. Mass Effect 2 didn't even touch the idea, nor did 98% of Mass Effect 3, nor the preceding 90% of Mass Effect 1. It's a one-off.
What Mass Effect DID reinforce was this:
1) Triumph against overwhelming odds is possible when differences are put aside and disparate races and ideals work alongside one another. Even AssholeShepard has this to an extent.
2) The Reapers are (largely) faceless, malevolent beings hell-bent on keeping the galaxy under [I]their[/I] control through genetic manipulation of sentient beings and precisely timed galactic purges to prevent a society from growing powerful enough to defeat them. All three games reiterated this until it was effectively gospel.
3) Controlling or cooperating with the Reapers is doomed to failure, no matter how strong the will of the person attempting it. Saren demonstrated this, The Illusive Man demonstrated this, the Geth demonstrated this, and hundreds of unfortunate underlings demonstrated this. It just doesn't work.
4) Peace, or at the least, coexistence between synthetic and organic life IS possible, as demonstrated by the Geth/Quarian conflict in Mass Effect 2 and 3, and EDI's character arc in both those games as well. Granted, there is a potential Shepard path that contradicts this so I won't back it too strongly.
NONE of that is backed by Mass Effect 3's ending, much less that of the Synthesis option. As I said earlier, if we accept the themes of the series as they were presented to us over the course of three games, the only two [B]valid[/B] options are outright destruction or what is essentially "Fight conventionally and fail."[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I just thought I'd mention it as a nice tidbit of information. The biggest issue with Mass Effect was how the writing changed so much between the first game and the third one. The fact that there are completely different lead writers between the first and third games, and that the original grand plotline was scrapped is proof of that.
The original plot was centered around the threat of dark energy destroying the universe. Bioware actually touched on this in Mass Effect 2, and it was essentially an afterthought. It was only mentioned once on Tali's recruitment mission, and never brought up again. If there's something Bioware is good at, it's retconning everything.
My biggest issue with Mass Effect was that the plot progression across all three titles is broken and nonsensical. ME1 was perfect, ME2 was pointless, and ME3 tried to combine too many plot elements into one game and somehow managed to simultaneously throw out every theme in the series in the last 5 minutes.
ME1 was all about discovering the Reapers. In ME2, the Reapers were an afterthought and everybody but a handful of people actually gave two shits about them. As for ME3, there's a deus ex machina in the first 20 minutes and you're trying to create alliances and your choices don't matter and it all boils down to gathering war bucks.
Here's how the series [I]should have[/I] gone:
ME1: Keep it as is
ME2: Researching and understanding the Reapers. Perhaps even learning about the Crucible and beginning construction on it and forging alliances.
ME3: Stopping the Reapers. The culmination of all of your choices from both the first and second game.
Instead we just got a convoluted mess in ME3, where learning about the Reapers, forging all those alliances, and then trying to stop them all happened at once. It made everything feel rushed and confusing.
[QUOTE=CAPT Opp4;45069058]I think the most disappointing aspect of this trailer is how astoundingly not Mass Effect everything they're showing is. Seriously, without the music and commentary from the developers, I would've had NO fucking clue that what I was seeing had ANYTHING to do with Mass Effect.
In the trailer they talk about astounding new developments in story and narrative--and that's great. That's what Bioware does. But they completely fail to mention or revisit what makes that MASS EFFECT. Or how these developments will be at-all relevant to the universe we fell in love with. Nothing in the video looks remotely familiar to the series, and from what I've seen, they might as-well be making a completely different game and titling it 'Mass Effect'.[/QUOTE]
they showed all of like 6 seconds of actual rendered concept and it was a Krogan growling, how would you not know it was mass effect
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