Not to be rude but Wafflemonstr: holy shit, why are you valiantly defending Andromeda so badly right now?
Buyer's remorse kicking in yet or something?
[QUOTE=kariko;52020778]dead or completely opposite facial expressions during statements (like female Ryder smiling while talking about her dad's death). It just looks so bad.[/QUOTE]
That's another good point. While this scene in ME3 is often (and justifiably) criticized as being weirdly out of character and manipulative, Shepard's animation between 0:53-1:05 is really quite good.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snxAnlq_K5w[/media]
Without a word being spoken, Shepard visibly transitions from shock, to sadness, and finally to a quiet rage mixed with disgust. And this is for a kid that nobody even gives a shit about, much less the playable character's father.
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020792]Even the normal Shepherd had rough facial animations, the custom ones just looked even worse somehow. My custom Ryder in ME:A actually looks far more normal, and borderline fantastic, facial animation-wise, than the default Ryder interestingly enough.
I'll agree that the headbutt looks way better than that Krogan fight scene in ME:A(mostly due to the proper sound effect), but Wrex clearly doesn't connect and the camera work just makes it look like he does. Like look how far to the left he has to jerk his head to look at Wreave, who only took like one step to the side after the hit. The lip animations are lazy, and are no better than the ducklips in ME:A that people keep making fun of(which actually look great from the front, they just look bad from the side).[/QUOTE]
In fairness, it's much more important that it LOOKS like the headbutt connects than it is for it to actually connect. Camera trickery and clever choreography is used all the time in film for exactly the same reason. So long as it looks believable, it's easy to give it a pass.
And yeah, for some reason custom Ryder seems to animate better than default in Andromeda. Can't figure that one out.
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52020804]Not to be rude but Wafflemonstr: holy shit, why are you valiantly defending Andromeda so badly right now?
Buyer's remorse kicking in yet or something?[/QUOTE]
I'm just giving my point of view, one from someone who has actually played the game. If you guys want an echo chamber I'll stop, but those of you who aren't gonna ever play this because of these stupid ass videos are missing out on a genuinely good game.
As I've said previously, I have 30hrs in the game so far, which is already considerably more than I get for most games I play, so there's no buyers remorse on my end.
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;52020812]That's another good point. While this scene in ME3 is often (and justifiably) criticized as being weirdly out of character and manipulative, Shepard's animation between 0:53-1:05 is really quite good.
Without a word being spoken, Shepard visibly transitions from shock, to sadness, and finally to a quiet rage mixed with disgust. And this is for a kid that nobody even gives a shit about, much less the playable character's father.
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
In fairness, it's much more important that it LOOKS like the headbutt connects than it is for it to actually connect. Camera trickery and clever choreography is used all the time in film for exactly the same reason. So long as it looks believable, it's easy to give it a pass.
And yeah, for some reason custom Ryder seems to animate better than default in Andromeda. Can't figure that one out.[/QUOTE]
Oh I'm not arguing that the headbutt looked bad, I'm just saying that it was camera trickery that made it look [I]good[/I], not masterful animation work. I was someone who devoutly loved Mass effect 3 despite all the criticism it got, including the ending(s), so I'm not criticizing the game, just saying it doesn't look better than ME:A. That scene in that clip is genuinely good as well, and [sp]the scene I mentioned earlier with Jaal shows very similar animation work, with Jaal experiencing genuine grief due to what he finds out in that mission.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020817]I'm just giving my point of view, one from someone who has actually played the game. If you guys want an echo chamber I'll stop, but those of you who aren't gonna ever play this because of these stupid ass videos are missing out on a genuinely good game.
As I've said previously, I have 30hrs in the game so far, which is considerably more than I get for most games I play, so there's no buyers remorse on my end.[/QUOTE]
I'm not basing my entire thoughts on this video. I've watched various folks from giant bomb and Jim Sterling talking about the actual gameplay and it sounds like it's more "okay" than "good". They were saying it's not horrible but it's just kind of average. At least that is what I've heard from them. Jim Sterling's video was short but the 3 guys from giant bomb talked about it for like 30 minutes to an hour and I got that it was average from what they were saying.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020817]I'm just giving my point of view, one from someone who has actually played the game.
Oh I'm not arguing that the headbutt looked bad, I'm just saying that it was camera trickery that made it look [I]good[/I], not masterful animation work. I was someone who devoutly loved Mass effect 3 despite all the criticism it got, including the ending(s), so I'm not criticizing the game, just saying it doesn't look better than ME:A. That scene in that clip is genuinely good as well, and [sp]the scene I mentioned earlier with Jaal shows very similar animation work, with Jaal experiencing genuine grief due to what he finds out in that mission.[/sp][/QUOTE]
Fair enough. Can't speak for anyone else here but I put 6 hours into the singleplayer before deciding it wasn't for me and that it didn't recapture the "magic" of the original. And, admittedly, the animation was actually starting to grate on me. I can't fault you for enjoying the game, so more power to you.
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52020804]Not to be rude but Wafflemonstr: holy shit, why are you valiantly defending Andromeda so badly right now?
Buyer's remorse kicking in yet or something?[/QUOTE]
I didn't buy the game, maybe it's just that he has had a different experience than what the video suggests? Why is him disagreeing such a big deal?
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020726]
Here's a Witcher 3 vid from 2015 showing "funny" moments. Many of the bugs in this vid are present in Mass effect Andromeda, and are common in ALL open world games, yet ME:A is being shit on for it.[/QUOTE]
Hey remember when Geralt walked like this?
[IMG]http://68.media.tumblr.com/76a4f8154a775755dd8825792a665a71/tumblr_inline_omxngj0qWR1rhdvi2_500.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=kariko;52020858]I'm not basing my entire thoughts on this video. I've watched various folks from giant bomb and Jim Sterling talking about the actual gameplay and it sounds like it's more "okay" than "good". They were saying it's not horrible but it's just kind of average. At least that is what I've heard from them. Jim Sterling's video was short but the 3 guys from giant bomb talked about it for like 30 minutes to an hour and I got that it was average from what they were saying.[/QUOTE]
Well that's good then, I don't listen to Jim Sterling at all, he just comes off as needlessly negative of just about every game he reviews, but I trust Giantbomb. To me, this is easily the best Mass effect from a gameplay standpoint. Due to how open world it is, it is less narrative based, and there tend to be far fewer cutscenes while on missions, but that's a given for that genre of game. The characters are apparently extremely polarizing, since I personally love [B]all[/B] of them, but I've seen plenty who don't as well.
No one's ever going to say the previous Mass Effect games weren't filled with technical problems and animation errors. However, unless you intentionally customized them that way Shepard usually didn't look retarded, and the animators actually put neat details and little moments in that just make it a lot more alive. One of the moments i'll always remember from the first game is when you're seeing Sovereign on Eden Prime via video footage alongside Anderson and Nihlus, and while the soundtrack goes pitch silent and the video's stopped, Nihlus just stares as the side parts of his face twitch in a small reaction of confusion, surprise and potential horror.
From what i've seen of Andromeda, Turian faces just entirely move their mouths and those side parts might as well be static. It's little things like that combined with everyone besides Ryder and Peebee lacking much in expression that just make things seem like there was no real heart put into the characters, and the aforementioned two characters are walking memes with how.. bad their expressions can be.
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;52020874]Hey remember when Geralt walked like this?
[IMG]http://68.media.tumblr.com/76a4f8154a775755dd8825792a665a71/tumblr_inline_omxngj0qWR1rhdvi2_500.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
That's done by tapping A and D repeatedly, and extremely fast. It's not something you see in normal gameplay ever, unless you intentionally hit those keys as fast as you can. The weird constipation glitch is actually seen in normal gameplay however, although it is also fairly rare.
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=RikohZX;52020884]No one's ever going to say the previous Mass Effect games weren't filled with technical problems and animation errors. However, unless you intentionally customized them that way Shepard usually didn't look retarded, and the animators actually put neat details and little moments in that just make it a lot more alive. One of the moments i'll always remember from the first game is when you're seeing Sovereign on Eden Prime via video footage alongside Anderson and Nihlus, and while the soundtrack goes pitch silent and the video's stopped, Nihlus just stares as the side parts of his face twitch in a small reaction of confusion, surprise and potential horror.
From what i've seen of Andromeda, Turian faces just entirely move their mouths and those side parts might as well be static. It's little things like that combined with everyone besides Ryder and Peebee lacking much in expression that just make things seem like there was no real heart put into the characters, and the aforementioned two characters are walking memes with how.. bad their expressions can be.[/QUOTE]
Mine did and I made him look as normal as I could. I wish I had just used the default Shepherd throughout the games tbh. Also here's that clip you mentioned(happens at around 1:04):
[video=youtube;yYyI_Jb-XnQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYyI_Jb-XnQ[/video]
It doesn't look very intentional to me since that's the only time you see it in that clip, it looks more like the sideflaps came out of T:Pose, but if it was intentional that is indeed a nice touch actually.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020887]That's done by tapping A and D repeatedly, and extremely fast. It's not something you see in normal gameplay ever, unless you intentionally hit those keys as fast as you can. The weird constipation glitch is actually seen in normal gameplay however, although it is also fairly rare.[/QUOTE]
Out of all the glitches, this is the most common one yet, I pretty much seen it already on stream and on everyone's gameplays. Please don't say it's something intentional when there are other glitches occuring with the walking/running animations, some involving stairs and as such. It all makes me wonder if her model is a ragdoll or not.
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
Not to mention, out of all the glitches in this video you see (which is 20 minutes long), every single compilation of them is a different copy of the game running under a different hardware played by a different person. I'm sorry but I just can't buy that it's people somehow intentionally breaking the game or making it look like shit when this is so common and out of nowhere
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020887]That's done by tapping A and D repeatedly, and extremely fast[/QUOTE]
That makes it even pathetic considering that [I]has[/I] to be one of the first things that happen in play testing (which obviously wasn't a priority here).
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;52020909]Out of all the glitches, this is the most common one yet, I pretty much seen it already on stream and on everyone's gameplays. Please don't say it's something intentional when there are other glitches occuring with the walking/running animations, some involving stairs and as such. It all makes me wonder if her model is a ragdoll or not.
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
Not to mention, out of all the glitches in this video you see (which is 20 minutes long), every single compilation of them is a different copy of the game running under a different hardware played by a different person. I'm sorry but I just can't buy that it's people somehow intentionally breaking the game or making it look like shit when this is so common and out of nowhere[/QUOTE]
The legs are almost certainly ragdolls given how fluid the actual animations are when running in a circle and whatnot, I have a feeling it's similar top GTA IV's animations. I have played 30 hrs and have never seen that walking bug happen without tapping a and d repeatedly so all the videos you have seen must have been spamming it too. I spam them all the time when I'm going from point A to point B, it's just fun. I also mentioned the other walking bug when I mentioned the constipation glitch; that one absolutely needs to be fixed.
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dantz Bolrew;52020940]That makes it even pathetic considering that [I]has[/I] to be one of the first things that happen in play testing (which obviously wasn't a priority here).[/QUOTE]
You have to tap ridiculously fast, like I have a hard time replicating it for fun consistently. I agree that it should have been caught, but it's not as easy as it sounds to replicate.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020881]Well that's good then, I don't listen to Jim Sterling at all, he just comes off as needlessly negative of just about every game he reviews, but I trust Giantbomb. To me, this is easily the best Mass effect from a gameplay standpoint. Due to how open world it is, it is less narrative based, and there tend to be far fewer cutscenes while on missions, but that's a given for that genre of game. The characters are apparently extremely polarizing, since I personally love [B]all[/B] of them, but I've seen plenty who don't as well.[/QUOTE]
Yes I trusted them more than him honestly. He said he didn't like the first game which was really surprising to me! But Giant bomb talked about it in more detail so I gave their review more weight in my head.
[QUOTE=kariko;52020948]Yes I trusted them more than him honestly. He said he didn't like the first game which was really surprising to me! But Giant bomb talked about it in more detail so I gave their review more weight in my head.[/QUOTE]
Giantbomb is pretty great. I'll have to check out their videos on it actually, i'm interested to see their take on it since it sounds like they were fairly impartial from how you described, as in they didn't love it or hate it.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020433]People need to stop basing their first fucking impressions on stupid YouTube videos. I haven't seen a hyped up AAA game release without a massive witchhunt in years, and it's due to videos such as these. They highlight/overexpose the flaws and ignore the positive aspects entirely. The only game I can think of that avoided this was Witcher 3 and that's because CD Projekt Red has a massive following of overzealous fans. Not saying it was a bad game obviously, but there were plenty of issues at launch very similar to the ones ME:A is having.
If you want a good first impression of a game, watch the first part of a walkthrough or something, or better yet, play the beta before the game releases.
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
Any of the talks between Ryder and his companions/ship crew are great, I know because I have fucking played the game unlike you from the sounds of it.
There is a scene on [sp]Voeld, the ice planet, where you are liberating Angara from a Kett facility, and there are plenty of well directed scenes, and Jaal has great dialogue/animation.[/sp] Oh and believe it or not that entire scene I just mentioned wasn't in this clearly very detailed CrowbCat video; weird. I'm not far enough into the story to name more story scenes, but I have seen plenty of great scenes so far. There is also tons of chatter in the nomad between whatever companions you took with you, and it's all well written from what I've heard myself so far.[/QUOTE]
Obviously you've got some hate against CrowbCat and you don't understand what his videos are about. Hes not an objective videogame reviewer giving constructive criticism, lists of pros and cons, and a verdict at the end like some sort of Angry Joe or Totalbiscuit. His channel is 80% comedy, 20% hey you probably shouldn't bother with this. He's not including X special scene on snowy ice planet that's not mediocre because even bad games DO have some good moments, but what hes showcasing is that [b]holy shit the bad moments are abysmal[/b] and theres a lot of them, or with GTA5 and the Dead Rising videos, shits downgraded in areas.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020433]People need to stop basing their first fucking impressions on stupid YouTube videos. I haven't seen a hyped up AAA game release without a massive witchhunt in years, and it's due to videos such as these. They highlight/overexpose the flaws and ignore the positive aspects entirely.[/QUOTE]
It's only fair to stop cherrypicking the bad stuff if people stops pretending that because they haven't experienced problem X in the game that the game is totally fine, no problems at all. It is exactly the same problem, just with a different bias.
Unfortunately hyperbole isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020952]Giantbomb is pretty great. I'll have to check out their videos on it actually, i'm interested to see their take on it since it sounds like they were fairly impartial from how you described, as in they didn't love it or hate it.[/QUOTE]
It was a couple giant bomb casts. They also have a full quick look of it too. Here's some links:
This one they only talk about it for 10 mins.
[url]https://youtu.be/rA_dUVOQOMo?t=3803[/url]
This one is about 30 mins.
[url]https://youtu.be/6bRfKrmuSd8?t=1375[/url]
And this is the quick look.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfybbMOWelQ[/url]
I've played the fucking game, these movement issues are everywhere and WORSE than described. You will randomly lose control of Ryder CONSTANTLY
[QUOTE=kariko;52021028]It was a couple giant bomb casts. They also have a full quick look of it too. Here's some links:
This one they only talk about it for 10 mins.
[url]https://youtu.be/rA_dUVOQOMo?t=3803[/url]
This one is about 30 mins.
[url]https://youtu.be/6bRfKrmuSd8?t=1375[/url]
And this is the quick look.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfybbMOWelQ[/url][/QUOTE]
Thanks, I'll check them out. That saved me all the searching around!
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeos;52021030]I've played the fucking game, these movement issues are everywhere and WORSE than described. You will randomly lose control of Ryder CONSTANTLY[/QUOTE]
Maybe it has to do with optimization or something then because I have never lost control of Ryder and have seen practically zero animation bugs anywhere at all. It's not like you're the only one saying this either, so something is going on clearly.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52021042]Maybe it has to do with optimization or something then because I have never lost control of Ryder and have seen practically zero animation bugs anywhere at all. It's not like you're the only one saying this either, so something is going on clearly.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a lack of polish, pure and simple; Another few months of work and a lot of these technical problems could have been resolved.
[QUOTE=SenhorCreeper;52020874]Hey remember when Geralt walked like this?
[IMG]http://68.media.tumblr.com/76a4f8154a775755dd8825792a665a71/tumblr_inline_omxngj0qWR1rhdvi2_500.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I can'tl replicate this
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;52020970]Obviously you've got some hate against CrowbCat and you don't understand what his videos are about. Hes not an objective videogame reviewer giving constructive criticism, lists of pros and cons, and a verdict at the end like some sort of Angry Joe or Totalbiscuit. His channel is 80% comedy, 20% hey you probably shouldn't bother with this. He's not including X special scene on snowy ice planet that's not mediocre because even bad games DO have some good moments, but what hes showcasing is that [b]holy shit the bad moments are abysmal[/b] and theres a lot of them, or with GTA5 and the Dead Rising videos, shits downgraded in areas.[/QUOTE]
yeah I get that personally I just don't like it
it doesn't add anything to discussions, it makes them harder, it polarizes people and makes people less willing to actually talk about it
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeos;52021030]I've played the fucking game, these movement issues are everywhere and WORSE than described. You will randomly lose control of Ryder CONSTANTLY[/QUOTE]
what control method are you using? both kb+m and controller have worked fine for me
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020726]Here's a Witcher 3 vid from 2015 showing "funny" moments. Many of the bugs in this vid are present in Mass effect Andromeda, and are common in ALL open world games, yet ME:A is being shit on for it.[/QUOTE]
We aren't strictly shitting on the game for having bugs. All games have bugs, even massive industry legends make games with bugs.
We're shitting on it because of the broad number of problems that are in it. Fallout 4 is a great game for example, but making fun of its problems are 100% fair because those problems [B]EXIST[/B]. No game on earth is immune to this.
The difference between W3 and ME4 is that W3 doesn't look like and act rushed garbage. The acting is pretty consistently good and the animations really flow naturally. The issues, from what I know, are much less prominent.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020726]
Also here's a video of a pretty important moment from Mass Effect 3.
[video=youtube;b7_yOcRr95Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7_yOcRr95Q[/video]
Watch that and tell me that it looks amazing from an animation standpoint. I personally never saw any problems with the scenes in the previous Mass Effect games, and actually loved them, but it's not like they were better than ME:A as you said.[/QUOTE]
Well, for starters, Wrex and Wreave's heads appear to actually, ya know, touch one another like a real headbutt and not Hollywood scripted action sequences.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/oYf1fJJ.jpg[/t]
I still can't get past how this face managed to stay on screen for 5 seconds during a sex scene
[QUOTE=Brt5470;52015941]12:28 is magical.[/QUOTE]
That is jarring as fuck. I get that they need to come up with idle animations, but seriously??
[editline]27th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020726]Also here's a video of a pretty important moment from Mass Effect 3.
[video=youtube;b7_yOcRr95Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7_yOcRr95Q[/video]
Watch that and tell me that it looks amazing from an animation standpoint. I personally never saw any problems with the scenes in the previous Mass Effect games, and actually loved them, but it's not like they were better than ME:A as you said.[/QUOTE]
The Krogan faces look fantastic, little details like their lips quivering when they growl. Shepard is the only poor quality face there, and that's because the player made a bland face.
Meanwhile, Andromeda is populated by potato people who have a thin oily sheen on their faces like teenagers.
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020726]I recall there being a bit of a shitfit over the graphical downgrade but that lasted for what seemed like a week at best, and was rapidly washed out by posts fawning over the graphics and comparing it to other games.
Here's a Witcher 3 vid from 2015 showing "funny" moments. Many of the bugs in this vid are present in Mass effect Andromeda, and are common in ALL open world games, yet ME:A is being shit on for it.
[video=youtube;Uc6RnI47vTI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc6RnI47vTI[/video]
I agree that The Witcher has, for the most part, fantastic writing and animation and these bugs don't indicate the overall quality of the game; but in the case if ME:A, the bugs in this video indicate the entire quality of [I]it[/I]?
Also here's a video of a pretty important moment from Mass Effect 3.
[video=youtube;b7_yOcRr95Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7_yOcRr95Q[/video]
Watch that and tell me that it looks amazing from an animation standpoint. I personally never saw any problems with the scenes in the previous Mass Effect games, and actually loved them, but it's not like they were better than ME:A as you said.[/QUOTE]
You're not getting it.
ME:A's problems are all being clumped up together. The bad writing here and there, all the godawful bugs, the ugly characters, the bad animations...
All of that IS the problem. What makes it even worse is that this is supposed to be an elite developer.
Meanwhile, Witcher 3 was done with probably way less manpower and resources, by most likely not as experienced people. Or, at least they shouldn't be, seeing how they've made less than half of the number of games Bioware has done. You'd expect The Witcher 3 to be worser I guess, and ME:A WAY better than it is.
Were the beta testers - if there were any - just saying "Everything looks fine on my end!" as a long-running joke?
[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;52020887]Mine did and I made him look as normal as I could. I wish I had just used the default Shepherd throughout the games tbh. Also here's that clip you mentioned(happens at around 1:04):
[video=youtube;yYyI_Jb-XnQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYyI_Jb-XnQ[/video]
It doesn't look very intentional to me since that's the only time you see it in that clip, it looks more like the sideflaps came out of T:Pose, but if it was intentional that is indeed a nice touch actually.[/QUOTE]
Considering that throughout all of ME1, ME2, and ME3, those side mandibles flex and move every time one of them speaks, I would wager that no, it was not accidental and it was not his model "returning from a T-pose"
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52021651]Holy shit, really? That's impressive as hell.
Sure makes Andromeda look like a pile of dump.[/QUOTE]
I'm a New Vegas fanboy and I love Obsidian but as far as I know Bethesda wasn't doing much to actively fuck Obsidian up other than setting harsh deadlines. But after development, part of the contract was that Obsidian would receive a bonus if the game got 85 on Metacritic, and it got an 84. No bonus and the rights were most likely retracted. So they did get screwed over there.
It's an underdog story but after all this time people have exaggerated Bethesda's hand in New Vegas' shortcomings. Sorry for the derail just don't want misinformation spread.
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