Chinese tourist kicks down 10 million-year-old stalagmite - General

[QUOTE=B!N4RY;52335176]Holy shit the amount of arrogance you're bringing into this thread is absolutely fucking amazing. Are you seriously advocating vandalism?[/QUOTE] Fuck no. I just think some users in this forum are overreacting. [QUOTE=B!N4RY;52335176]It's not about how "valuable" that one piece of stalagmite is. Vandalism is simply unacceptable, especially considering how long it took for each of the individual stalagmite formed.[/QUOTE] Actually, I think it does matter. If it was a jaw-dropping, awe-inspiring stalagmite, it would probably garner a slightly different. [QUOTE=B!N4RY;52335176]If everyone who goes into the cave and kicks down a piece of stalagmite, this cave would cease to exist in no time and there would be nothing left to see.[/QUOTE] Actually you'd still have a bunch of pretty stalactites left to look at but that's beside the point. It's really absurd to assume everyone would do it. [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Arc Nova;52335159]hes a dickhead because they tell you not to do thing and then he does thing anyway[/QUOTE] This we can agree.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52335256]Fuck no. I just think some users in this forum are overreacting. Actually, I think it does matter. If it was a jaw-dropping, awe-inspiring stalagmite, it would probably garner a slightly different. Actually you'd still have a bunch of pretty stalactites left to look at but that's beside the point. It's really absurd to assume everyone would do it. [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] This we can agree.[/QUOTE] What is there to defend for this man. He is brainless and thoughtless enough to come into a cave system and kick a forming stalagmite until it busts in half. It's like saying if someone went into a redwood forest and cut a tree down for laughs it's fine because not everyone is gonna do it!!! All anyone in the thread said was that hes a dickhead and an idiot, no ones calling for his death or imprisonment. I hope he faces some repercussions for this to show him that it's not an okay thing to do but seriously he's a fucktard.

My own father had to deal with shit recently. Someone had stolen a shark tooth from the caverns in Mariana, FL. That shark tooth in the ceiling is part of the tour, because it's such an amazing relic of what used to exist swimming around in that area, now exposed by minerals shifting around via water. The guy was tracked down and sued for the cost that it took for a dentist to install it back in its spot in the cave. I get that to some people "it's just a rock". But that doesn't mean it's okay to knock shit over that took so many years to form. Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean someone else doesn't find these structures amazing. Edit: Even stalagmites are often part of the tour experience. Often times, groups of stalagmites or other formations make really cool shapes when the tour guide shines a light on them. In the cave system I just referred to, there's at least 4 of them in the tour. One of which looks eerily like the Titanic sinking, which goes down when you move the flashlight a certain way.

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52335331]My own father had to deal with shit recently. Someone had stolen a shark tooth from the caverns in Mariana, FL. That shark tooth in the ceiling is part of the tour, because it's such an amazing relic of what used to exist swimming around in that area, now exposed by minerals shifting around via water. The guy was tracked down and sued for the cost that it took for a dentist to install it back in its spot in the cave. I get that to some people "it's just a rock". But that doesn't mean it's okay to knock shit over that took so many years to form. Just because it doesn't matter to you doesn't mean someone else doesn't find these structures amazing.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's okay to vandalize, but in this case it wasn't something extraordinary like that. It was a stalagmite. I definitely don't approve of his behaviour, but it's not exactly a precious mineral or something. And don't pull that "It took millions of years for this stone to form" excuse. Every time you start up your car, it burns dinosaurs. Instead go for a sensible argument. It's a preserved cave and a lovely exhibit. Don't destroy things just because you want to.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;52335302]All anyone in the thread said was that hes a dickhead and an idiot, no ones calling for his death or imprisonment.[/QUOTE] Looking back on the thread I don't know why I interpreted it differently. Is there a way to retain my dignity? [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=joost1120;52335380]I don't think it's okay to vandalize, but in this case it wasn't something extraordinary like that. It was a stalagmite. I definitely don't approve of his behaviour, but it's not exactly a precious mineral or something. And don't pull that "It took millions of years for this stone to form" excuse. Every time you start up your car, it burns dinosaurs. Instead go for a sensible argument. It's a preserved cave and a lovely exhibit. Don't destroy things just because you want to.[/QUOTE] This was the point I was trying to make.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52335098] But how was this one particular stalagmite valuable? I doubt it was research, and its destruction probably brought more attention to the tourist attraction.[/QUOTE] I think a good question to ask yourself, on your own, and try to resolve before thinking out loud is whether or not [I]you[/I] find that nature has any intrinsic value, or only instrumental value. If you can't see the intrinsic value in one part of something, don't pretend to see the intrinsic value in the rest of it. If you look at a complete whole approvingly and point to its individual elements and say that they are useless you've just got to appreciate the fact that maybe caves aren't for you and leave it for other people instead of posting about it.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52335380]I don't think it's okay to vandalize, but in this case it wasn't something extraordinary like that. It was a stalagmite. I definitely don't approve of his behaviour, but it's not exactly a precious mineral or something. And don't pull that "It took millions of years for this stone to form" excuse. Every time you start up your car, it burns dinosaurs. Instead go for a sensible argument. It's a preserved cave and a lovely exhibit. Don't destroy things just because you want to.[/QUOTE] I don't think we should just [I]ignore[/I] the fact that these structures take so long to form. The way they form is a massive part of why people that are interested in the history of caves are interested in them. The point is, you can't just replace them in a short time span. Comparing it to oil seems a little unfair. Sure, they're both old, but oil's worth isn't from its age, it's from its energy storage. Nobody puts oil on display because it smells horrid and it's just gunk. The caves and their features are like a really cool display nature has made just for us over such a long ass time, so it just really pains me to see this. Keep in mind that I grew up on cave tours (father's job) so I probably feel a bit differently about the caves that I've walked so much in. I don't mean to come off as an asshole but it just irks me when I see this when I've seen people try so hard to protect it

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52335564]I don't think we should just [I]ignore[/I] the fact that these structures take so long to form. The way they form is a massive part of why people that are interested in the history of caves are interested in them. The point is, you can't just replace them in a short time span. Comparing it to oil seems a little unfair. Sure, they're both old, but oil's worth isn't from its age, it's from its energy storage. Nobody puts oil on display because it smells horrid and it's just gunk. The caves and their features are like a really cool display nature has made just for us over such a long ass time, so it just really pains me to see this. Keep in mind that I grew up on cave tours (father's job) so I probably feel a bit differently about the caves that I've walked so much in. I don't mean to come off as an asshole but it just irks me when I see this when I've seen people try so hard to protect it[/QUOTE] There's literally tens of thousands of caves filled with stalagmites and tites though.

[QUOTE=joost1120;52335575]There's literally tens of thousands of caves filled with stalagmites and tites though.[/QUOTE] Sure, but not as many of them are as conviently great for tourism. It's a lucky find to find even slightly connected caves for a decent tour.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52335256]Fuck no. I just think some users in this forum are overreacting. Actually, I think it does matter. If it was a jaw-dropping, awe-inspiring stalagmite, it would probably garner a slightly different. Actually you'd still have a bunch of pretty stalactites left to look at but that's beside the point. It's really absurd to assume everyone would do it. [editline]10th June 2017[/editline] This we can agree.[/QUOTE] He's being a disrespectful fucking git. I don't need anything more than that to think this guy's an asshole. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=joost1120;52335575]There's literally tens of thousands of caves filled with stalagmites and tites though.[/QUOTE] Yeah, this isn't a world ending event or even something major it's an example of a guy being a total dick with no self awareness, no respect, and he should be shit on for that

I admit that I may have a bias against caves. The only caves I've ever experienced were very boring.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52335600]I admit that I may have a bias against caves. The only caves I've ever experienced were very boring.[/QUOTE] I mean in all honesty, I get your point, and in many ways the outrage is a bit much but at the same time how hard is it to not break something that isn't yours to break? How much are we really asking of people if that's what's required here? All he had to do was literally not do that.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52335600]I admit that I may have a bias against caves. The only caves I've ever experienced were very boring.[/QUOTE] Literally your entire existence in the thread seemed to be just to play the contrarian to people who generally were in consensus that breaking something millions of years old is a dick thing to do. And you weren't even doing the job of contrarian very well. You look at a cool rock formation formed over the course of millions of years, these things that people pay to go see, researchers have studied, and make an interesting case study for natural changes in the environment over time, and you come up with "Big deal it's a rock lol" Can't play off those bad posts.

[QUOTE=Tigster;52336733]Literally your entire existence in the thread seemed to be just to play the contrarian to people who generally were in consensus that breaking something millions of years old is a dick thing to do. And you weren't even doing the job of contrarian very well. You look at a cool rock formation formed over the course of millions of years, these things that people pay to go see, researchers have studied, and make an interesting case study for natural changes in the environment over time, and you come up with "Big deal it's a rock lol" Can't play off those bad posts.[/QUOTE] I was under the assumption that the reason people were angry was because of what was vandalized instead of the fact it was vandalism for no good reason. I totally agree that it was a dickhead thing to do. I just don't see it as any bigger deal than knocking over any other stone.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52341014]I was under the assumption that the reason people were angry was because of what was vandalized instead of the fact it was vandalism for no good reason. I totally agree that it was a dickhead thing to do. I just don't see it as any bigger deal than knocking over any other stone.[/QUOTE] it's the value that people place into objects, either manmade or created through natural phenomena, that also makes us feel frustrated and angry when that value is damaged or destroyed. there are millions of cave formations that exist throughout the world, and a single kicked-over stalagmite is completely inconsequential to the historical and tourist value of stalagmite caves. [I]however[/I], it's the attitude and the disdain of "oh it's just a rock" which pisses people off. it's not even like that guy accidentally fell, tripped, and knocked it over -- he deliberately gave it a few kicks just to see if it could be knocked down. it's the lack of respect for something many people find interesting or valuable, that causes outrage. plus, Chinese tourists are fucking assholes. I'm Chinese, by the way.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52341014]I was under the assumption that the reason people were angry was because of what was vandalized instead of the fact it was vandalism for no good reason. I totally agree that it was a dickhead thing to do. I just don't see it as any bigger deal than knocking over any other stone.[/QUOTE] Because it's not [B]just[/B] a rock. It's a cave formation. It's created when water slowly seeps through porous rock carrying sediment and depositing it inside a cave. These formations take thousands of years to grow in that arrangement. It's the same difference between a natural diamond and gardening stones. Besides, even if it wasn't a cave formation there would still be no justification for damaging someone else's property.

I feel like this man felt at home in the cave and went back to his caveman roots and tried to make a tool from a rock. Just look at how he points at it.

[QUOTE=nerdster409;52335098]You're talking to someone who lives in a state whose symbol was [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Man_of_the_Mountain"]a rock formation[/URL]. I got class. [editline]9th June 2017[/editline] But how was this one particular stalagmite valuable? I doubt it was research, and its destruction probably brought more attention to the tourist attraction.[/QUOTE] Should we go to a museum and kick shit down as well because 'lol its just a fucking sword' or 'lol its just a stupid stone'

I mean, even though it's a dick move and he is a complete shithead, it's still an achievement, in a twisted way. Who else on here can say they broke a 10 million yo stalagmite? Maybe a million or 2, but 10?

When people place a lot of value onto an item or structure it's generally considered a dick move to destroy it even if you personally don't find the value in it. It's on display, don't fuck with it. Don't defend it, it makes you seem like an asshole.

[QUOTE=DaFreshLemon;52361658]I mean, even though it's a dick move and he is a complete shithead, it's still an achievement, in a twisted way. Who else on here can say they broke a 10 million yo stalagmite? Maybe a million or 2, but 10?[/QUOTE] Destroying something is always easier than making something that takes years - there is nothing to pride yourself about for depriving the people who walk these lands after you from seeing.

[QUOTE=DaFreshLemon;52361658]I mean, even though it's a dick move and he is a complete shithead, it's still an achievement, in a twisted way. Who else on here can say they broke a 10 million yo stalagmite? Maybe a million or 2, but 10?[/QUOTE] Ok, then go out and kill someone in the most twisted, unique fashion. Drain their blood out and replace it with school glue or something. It's now an achievement in a twisted way, because who else on here can say they killed someone by replacing their blood with glue?

[QUOTE=aznz888;52362087]Ok, then go out and kill someone in the most twisted, unique fashion. Drain their blood out and replace it with school glue or something. It's now an achievement in a twisted way, because who else on here can say they killed someone by replacing their blood with glue?[/QUOTE] don't give him ideas now he might use it against you

The stalagmite being destroyed isn't the real issue, they grow back without us. The guy's attitude is the real problem, showing despicable disregard for nature, beauty and things valued by others. But also, people go to that cave for the stalagmites so he's directly detracting from that value.