• The Second Presidential Debate - Sponsored by Tic Tacs™
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[QUOTE=Monkah;51185064]Entirely true. That being said, I find it hard to believe that companies can do much worse than the government when it comes to our infrastructure. Besides, there are plenty of instances in which privatization delivers a far better product than the public alternative, for example, public vs. private schooling. Within the United States, it's almost a given that a child educated at a private school is far more likely to receive a better education than one educated at a public school. Certainly, this could be blamed on other factors (eg: families that cannot afford private school tending to be of lower-class and thus not have the same resources such as tutoring) but it's the closest to a fair example as we're going to get. The issue with trying to discuss something like the telecom industry is simply that there isn't a public telecom service for a privatized one to be compared to. I don't think privatization is the answer to everything, but I certainly think that it's an option that we should be looking into-- especially as it becomes increasingly clear that our current plans of "let's keep raising taxes and increasing the amounts we're funnelling in" continue to show almost no positive results; like a toddler inserting endless quantities of nickels into a broken arcade machine.[/QUOTE] Hasnt americas philosophy of the free market led to a situation where public education funding is gutted by states and federal though? The public alternative would only be comparable in quality if it were comparable in funding and its not [editline]11th October 2016[/editline] I dont think living in America would provide a good view on the quality of good public infrastructure is all. America is known to be very poor at it
[QUOTE=Monkah;51185064]Entirely true. That being said, I find it hard to believe that companies can do much worse than the government when it comes to our infrastructure. Besides, there are plenty of instances in which privatization delivers a far better product than the public alternative, for example, public vs. private schooling. Within the United States, it's almost a given that a child educated at a private school is far more likely to receive a better education than one educated at a public school. [B]Certainly, this could be blamed on other factors (eg: families that cannot afford private school tending to be of lower-class and thus not have the same resources such as tutoring) but it's the closest to a fair example as we're going to get.[/B] The issue with trying to discuss something like the telecom industry is simply that there isn't a public telecom service for a privatized one to be compared to. I don't think privatization is the answer to everything, but I certainly think that it's an option that we should be looking into-- especially as it becomes increasingly clear that our current plans of "let's keep raising taxes and increasing the amounts we're funnelling in" continue to show almost no positive results; like a toddler inserting endless quantities of nickels into a broken arcade machine.[/QUOTE] I'm gonna assume the situation with public and private schooling is somewhat like the one we have in Denmark - people who can afford private schools are probably (or rather [I]they are[/I]) much more resourceful (and not just with regards to tutoring or whatever - social factors have a [I]huge[/I] impact), and private schools can kick out disruptive kids that then have to be handled by the public sector instead. It's no surprise that the private sector can do better when they can simply ignore the more complex cases. That's not to say that private schools can't do a lot of things right on top of just having an easier-to-handle clientele, but I don't think it's a fair comparison at all to be honest. With roads, you end up with the same problems as with ISPs - possibly worse. It's very expensive to build and maintain roads, so there's no sense in having two parallel, competing roads that will just have to engage in a price war, reducing profits for everyone. Better to just kind of not intrude on other companies' turf and make sure that everyone can raise their prices to whatever level they want.
[QUOTE=killerteacup;51186682]Hasnt americas philosophy of the free market led to a situation where public education funding is gutted by states and federal though? The public alternative would only be comparable in quality if it were comparable in funding and its not [editline]11th October 2016[/editline] I dont think living in America would provide a good view on the quality of good public infrastructure is all. America is known to be very poor at it[/QUOTE] Public schools perform worse and spend more per pupil than private schools.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51187126]Public schools perform worse and spend more per pupil than private schools.[/QUOTE] they spend more? since when?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51187135]they spend more? since when?[/QUOTE] It's always been that way. Teachers at private schools don't get paid as much as teachers at public schools. The trade off is that private schools can deny difficult students or students who aren't bright enough, whereas public schools can't.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51187198]It's always been that way. Teachers at private schools don't get paid as much as teachers at public schools. The trade off is that private schools can deny difficult students or students who aren't bright enough, whereas public schools can't.[/QUOTE] can you like do something that'll make me believe what you're saying? like with a bunch of numbers from a website?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51187494]can you like do something that'll make me believe what you're saying? like with a bunch of numbers from a website?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]The Cato Institute's Adam Schaeffer recently calculated total expenditures per pupil for public school systems in America's five largest metropolitan areas and Washington, D.C. Washington spent the most—an average of $28,000 per public school student, which was more than the maximum tuition charged to attend such prestigious private schools as Lowell School ($25,120), Sheridan School ($24,700), and Georgetown Visitation School ($20,600), and only slightly below the maximum tuition charged at St. Albans ($31,428), National Cathedral School ($30,700), and Georgetown Day ($29,607). Does the handsome funding of urban public schools produce results? Not according to the NAEP, which shows, for instance, that more than 25 percent of public school eighth-graders are reading below the "basic" level, compared with only 8 percent of private school students. Obviously, it's misleading simply to compare the performance of private and public school students without adjusting for the type of student enrolled in each sector. A student whose parents can afford to pay private school tuition is likely to score higher on standardized tests than the average public school student, regardless of the quality of the school.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303822204577468783242379036[/url]
Summary of what's happened since the debate: -Polls show Clinton won -Some pre-debate polls show Clinton with a double-digit lead, and over 50% of voters backing her -Paul Ryan will no longer work with Trump, tells GOP House candidates to do whatever they want regarding him -Trump goes on twitter tirade against 'disloyal' Republican leadership, is glad to be free of their 'shackles' -Clinton now at 84% chance to win on 538 polls-only forecast Might have missed some stuff [editline]11th October 2016[/editline] Oh Trump also whipped out that online polls thing again and claimed that every poll showed he won
[QUOTE=smurfy;51187796]Might have missed some stuff[/QUOTE] Well since the debate, Pence and the RNC came out at least [i]claiming[/i] to support Trump. Other than that, I don't think that anything else happened.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51187617][url]http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303822204577468783242379036[/url][/QUOTE] it doesn't talk about teachers salaries in private compared to public sectors though free universal education paid for by the state should still be a thing, but i think that it can be handled much better through expanding charter schools as long as people are getting an education that is what matters
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;51188885]it doesn't talk about teachers salaries in private compared to public sectors though free universal education paid for by the state should still be a thing, but i think that it can be handled much better through expanding charter schools as long as people are getting an education that is what matters[/QUOTE] From what i can tell public school teachers are paid more, but this is to offset the fact that their jobs are much harder. If we put in context, maybe more spending is done per student but id love to see the shortfall in facilities that public schools have compared to private. Facilities are key and you could equalise pay if conditions in public schools were better
Let it be known that i was one of the first people to meme Ken Bone.
[QUOTE=dimitrik129;51189722]Let it be known that i was one of the first people to meme Ken Bone.[/QUOTE] Even if that was true no one would care.
Hello everyone I know this is a big question and I couldn't find the right thread to ask this so please forgive me if this is the wrong place Why is Hilary Clinton a bad choice for presidency? Iv'e heard much about Trump but I couldn't find a satisfying answer to this and I don't know a lot about American politics
[QUOTE=Kero_;51198898]Hello everyone I know this is a big question and I couldn't find the right thread to ask this so please forgive me if this is the wrong place Why is Hilary Clinton a bad choice for presidency? Iv'e heard much about Trump but I couldn't find a satisfying answer to this and I don't know a lot about American politics[/QUOTE] In a nutshell, Republicans have had a throbbing hate-boner for the Clintons for 20 years. Other than that, it's mostly corruption-related accusations
[QUOTE=Kero_;51198898]Hello everyone I know this is a big question and I couldn't find the right thread to ask this so please forgive me if this is the wrong place Why is Hilary Clinton a bad choice for presidency? Iv'e heard much about Trump but I couldn't find a satisfying answer to this and I don't know a lot about American politics[/QUOTE] Long history of scandal after scandal, corruption, lies, and etcetera are the main issues. Many Republicans also consider her anti-2A stances, Middle Eastern policy, and business-attacking tax plan to be dangerous.
[QUOTE=killerteacup;51189123]From what i can tell public school teachers are paid more, but this is to offset the fact that their jobs are much harder. If we put in context, maybe more spending is done per student but id love to see the shortfall in facilities that public schools have compared to private. Facilities are key and you could equalise pay if conditions in public schools were better[/QUOTE] Paid more because it's harder indeed. Public teachers have to deal with the juvenile punks who don't care and take their education system for granted and bring it down for everyone else, taking time and resources away to correct their behavior if that is even possible. Then you consider the possibility of a lot of schools using out of date textbooks and technologies to teach or not using their budgets properly. Bonus points if you're so shit out of luck God himself is out to get you and some said punk actually decides to attack you in your own classroom and you can't do shit to defend yourself, not even being able to restrain the punk because you need to keep your hands off at all times or you'd lose your job. There's a lot more to failing public schools then just lack of budget money or trained teachers, no matter how much money you give a school if it's in a shitty area it won't improve it.
[QUOTE=Kero_;51198898]Hello everyone I know this is a big question and I couldn't find the right thread to ask this so please forgive me if this is the wrong place Why is Hilary Clinton a bad choice for presidency? Iv'e heard much about Trump but I couldn't find a satisfying answer to this and I don't know a lot about American politics[/QUOTE] Big things that people say: more anti-gun, acted very irresponsibly by putting classified documents on an unsecured private email server, which she outright lied about, and has accepted large amounts of money from really sketchy sources like wall street and big oil. These are bad, but her policies are more or less solid, and the alternative candidate is a braindead orange demagogue who said that global warming is a Chinese conspiracy and that he likes to kiss women without consent and "grab 'em by the pussy".
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51200105]Paid more because it's harder indeed. Public teachers have to deal with the juvenile punks who don't care and take their education system for granted and bring it down for everyone else, taking time and resources away to correct their behavior if that is even possible. Then you consider the possibility of a lot of schools using out of date textbooks and technologies to teach or not using their budgets properly. Bonus points if you're so shit out of luck God himself is out to get you and some said punk actually decides to attack you in your own classroom and you can't do shit to defend yourself, not even being able to restrain the punk because you need to keep your hands off at all times or you'd lose your job. There's a lot more to failing public schools then just lack of budget money or trained teachers, no matter how much money you give a school if it's in a shitty area it won't improve it.[/QUOTE] That's a cyclic argument, substandard public facilities is a big contributor to what defines an area as 'shitty' - probably second only to crime rates. Although I would argue that crime rates aren't going to get any lower while kids from bad families go to equally bad schools If you improve the quality of infrastructure and services in an area you go a long way to solving problems within that area, and education is included in that. I've lived in working class areas all my life that have consistently become more safe and less 'shitty' when public funding is actually allocated well. It is possible to increase funding to public schools while still allocating it responsibly.
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