It's not like Garry never listens to input. It takes time if he does listen, sure. But if enough people post constructive criticism and suggestions to let him accomplish what he wants with the forums without causing the side effects that people are complaining about then he's pretty likely to actually consider it.
Maybe Garry wanted to kill the forums because the servers were costing too much?
I honestly don't see a problem with the questions. Oldpunch had a problem with it, but that was because VBulletin was fucking archaic and derelict in terms of functionality. Now all you need to do is click the notifications tab and see "XXX replied to your post in YYY" and go to that one, give them either a penny or dime for their troubles, and move on. Or throw a cardboard box at their faces if they said something retarded like "Y U NO GOOGLE?!!!!"
But you're not necessarily going to get ignored. Garry has listened to the community in the past when given constructive feedback. Maybe not every time but it does happen. It doesn't happen, however, when the community just whines about a change.
garry listens to input when it isnt just whining with nothing constructive going on
I really don't understand why you would want to fix something that was demonstrably not broken.
You can add coin rewards to your question to incentivize people at least check out your question. It even puts a coin icon next to the thread's title to advertise the reward, and when you accept a post as the answer, the post will be highlighted and the thread title gets a checkmark next to it.
Garry is like CliffyB and lawbreakers. They're both hard headed and won't listen to criticism about their actions
That's untrue. There is more user input into how these forums work than any other forum of this size that I've seen. Shindlers Fist and the ratings changes alone are a testament to that, and those are just the most recent things I can think of at the top of my head.
It is true, I've been on here for well over 8 years and every time I bring up valid criticisms of his actions on the forums, I always get shot down as a cry baby and I should get over it because it's his forums. It's true, this is his forums, but it doesn't mean his actions are right for it
Except people have been posting the reasons this change is terrible already.
How threads are quickly knocked down pages and are less likely to be seen
How subforum threads showing up in main forums make it impossible to find what you're looking for
How people feel less encouraged to post because it's less likely they'll be noticed
How people are still making megathreads, even encouraged by Hezzy, just on stupidly specific topics.
How the idea for 'broadening our horizons' has actually limited our horizons because Games is 90% TF2 and Overwatch threads, and how GD is filled with car threads
Me repeating that isn't going to help, so I instead gave my honest opinion. I don't expect Garry to listen to me. I just hope he sees how much people hate this change and how it makes browsing the forums a pain in the ass.
I agree with him that more subforums is good, and I agree that some sections shouldn't be filled with megathreads, but this blanket implementation of no megathreads at all is making the forums suffocatingly crowded. Games should have megathreads because there are too fucking many games. GGD used to have 3 pages of active threads just from megathreads on the old forums. Now it's a clusterfuck.
Also the only thing which prevented people from making threads to ask a specific question in the past was the mods banning people for making useless threads. Just stop doing that and the issue would have been solved.
There's been plenty of pushback with actual critique in this thread tho, ofc there's been a lot of (imo reasonable) anger too
Yeah, No.
Garry listens and takes on constructive criticism, but when its just people whining and not actually contributing a point, he ignores it.
He's very blunt in how he does it but I don't blame him. Theres a difference between going THIS CHANGE IS SHIT, REVERSE IT and I don't agree with this change for x y z, maybe consider revising it with a b c.
So far I've mostly just seen people going THIS IS SHIT ASDFFGHJKL;'# and not actually bothering to say anything else constructive.
Seriously though. This is the front page of games fight now
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/57978/8aa4ff02-aa08-4459-912c-e89f8bb0c504/BroadeningOurHorizons.PNG
I don't play TF2, DOTA, or Overwatch. This does not make browsing the forums easier.
Plenty of people have already given reasonable criticism, you're just choosing to ignore it.
get these good points
and
make them into threads here in meta
so garry can read em
Oh god a thread for every Dota hero would ruin GGD by itself, we wouldn't even need the other subforums to do that
Talk about selective reading, good lord. The majority of posts here have been valid complaints.
Whether Garry et. al. listens to it is another story.
When has whining unconstructively ever made the situation regarding a forum change Garry made better? The more people whine about it without being constructive the more likely Garry is to ignore peoples' complaints.
Give it like a day, and the mess will go away.
Or not. It all depends on if hezzy actually wants to go back on his words or not. If he does, he has a lot of explaining to do with a bunch of the closed groups.
There's been a lot more reasonable and well-spoken feedback than "grr angery" posts, you can't try to hide behind the latter to disregard the former.
Ever consider it's the way you're going about it (like now), or the fact that he just disagrees with your ideas? (granted, you haven't posted any ideas, just complaints)
But the whiny posts are a significant portion of the discussion regarding these changes and help to drown out the constructive ones. I dunno how people are missing this so completely.
The whole premise of these ~exposing~ users to content they wouldn't have seen otherwise is really strange to me, because once you start encouraging different threads for each topic, people will start only visiting the threads that they know they are interested in, so we've gone from reading every post of a subjects megathread, even stuff that you didn't go there for (which can sometimes include stuff that you didn't realise interested you), to reading only the shit that you already know you are interested in.
It's so counter-intuitive as to be bizarre.
I'm not, I've seen points raised about splitting down the threads into multiple others and the backlash to it, there was reasoning provided and some people have provided constructive points for and against it, but at the same time theres a good chunk just spouting this is bad with no reasoning.
The other points I've seen are releated to the weird choice of putting threads from subforums within the main forum section with tags, I agree its messy and cluttered with how its currently implemented, but we've got people just screaming bloody mary again instead of suggesting alternatives, one I have seen so far was requesting the implementation of filtering within the sections but at the same time, that entirely defeats the purpose originally intended. So its a double edged sword upon that case, personally I would actually suggest reverting that change to remove the clutter, not everyone wants to see everything from all sections, especially when it buries the main content of the main forum under the subforum content.
Point I was making is there are some of you making constructive critism which is what he looks for, but theres a lot of very loud people just screaming over any change.
Seeing it in other threads outside of here and within the fp discord, this isn't helping development when they do this.
So valid complaints are suddenly insignificant because a couple of people whined without valid criticism in their posts?
Did you take into consideration that this might also be contributing to why people think their feedback isn't listened to?
I come here for facepunch, not a reddit wannabe. I liked megathreads because I don't have to flip through piles of shit to get posts that are actually interesting. This makes it even harder to get information compared to the Overwatch and TF2 megathreads. I liked them because it was easier to read and handle, and now people will make threads that are basically "Hey look at the art I made" "Watch this play of the game #32198" instead of useful information pertaining to the games.
That's exactly what you have to do in megathreads, though, in descending chronological order.
There should be some way to more easily look at posts that don't belong to a subforum category thing, either a way to list sub-forum-less ones on their own or a catchall "other" sub-forum.
I don't know what thread you've been reading but in this one there's been dozens upon dozens of proposals and ways to best implement the current ideas. Way more than just "grr angery I sure hate change".
Also I really dislike the mentality of disregarding anybody who is upset at you as a "hater" and excusing yourself from having to think about why they might be mad.
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