Explanation Point - Made in Abyss, Eromanga Sensei, & Anime's Biggest Problem - General

This topic reminded me to finish reading the manga, and yeah it just keeps going. Now Riko and this other girl are talking about Reg's dick, drawing it to show each other, and one girl just insinuated that her dad molests her but she's all excited when she talks about it. This got brought up because they're talking about the mysteries of the abyss, and Reg's purpose, so naturally they gotta talk about Reg's penis as the main point, right? It's a really great story but I don't see how people can defend these elements and suggest it's not inappropriate. You literally can't go 2-3 chapters without these kids being sexualized. It's not just off-hand "coming of age" stuff, it's so clearly intentional.

The things people are talking about in this thread moreso crop up in an "Oh god David Cage put in another shower scene" sort of way, rather than a "The entire show is just softcore porn oh my god" way like is the case with some shitty anime. There's definitely a pattern but whether it'd spoil the show for you depends on your own point of view. Generally I enjoyed watching it, was a pretty decent adventure story with some real gutwrenching moments here and there. Some folks complain about pacing issues at a certain point about midway through the anime but I didn't really mind it. I sorta' wish that the weird child-stuff wasn't there because otherwise I'd probably be singing Made in Abyss' praises out to the heavens but it makes it a bit tougher to recommend to people without caveat. But them's the breaks I guess.

As a whole it's really fuckin good, yeah. Ultimately all this stuff is pretty quickly glossed over and the story moves on.

the later being blatalant loli fanservice doesnt make the other loli fanservice. you don't get to be "less bad" just because there are worse examples out there.

if you watch the anime the fanservice is pretty minor and gets blown out of proportion the manga has more of that but i absolutely recommend the anime, one of my favorites, great story, characters, atmosphere and some of the most emotional i've gotten from any media in a long while

In a way, the fact that Made in Abyss is an engrossing story makes the fanservice more off putting for those who can't tolerate it. At least with Eromanga-sensei, you know what you're getting into. It's not as if the perverted stuff doesn't 'belong' per se but I don't read or watch Made in Abyss to see kids wet themselves nor do I think the inclusion improves in story.

There's a scene where Riko has to pee and take a shit (for like the 6th time because apparently that's also a fetish the author has) where a 4th wall breaking note specifically calls Riko a loli. The manga is definitely way more uncomfortable than the anime. Because speaking of his toilet fetish, I literally just read this part, in chapter 43 she has to go again (7th time or so) and she uses a toilet with a tongue, and she comments on how thoroughly it licks her. What the fuck. Blegh. Don't read the manga, people. Watch the anime and then wait for season 2 of it to finish the story.

IMO, the manga is incredible and the artstyle is fantastic. I just let the weird parts like that pass whenever they arise, they're never focused on heavily, and when I'm reading I can easily skip those scenes, while when watching it's trickier due to the format of the animated medium. Also, as for the 4th wall breaking, I'm pretty sure the majority of scanlations for MiA are done by /a/ memesters which is why you'd get things calling her a loli and the little SFX notes.

how good a manga is if you have to skip scenes.

I dunno. I skipped a lot of pages in Chio-chan no Tsuugakuro when the author really started showing the fact that they're a hentai artist first and foremost, but I'd still say it's a fantastic series. Same with Berserk, same with Mad Chimera World, same with Yuusha ga Shinda! If an unnerving amount of ecchi is enough to put you off a good manga entirely, that's your prerogative. I can't blame you, but it doesn't say anything about how good or bad the manga is.

This video piqued my interest, so I watched it a couple days ago. Speaking only about the anime, a lot of this "scandalous" stuff is wayyy overblown, if you didn't pay attention and have people bringing it up, you'd literally forget about it in two seconds. Otherwise, the story is pretty damn good, the artstyle is very nice, and the world is really interesting. The only scene I have issue with is the "pond" scene that people are mentioning. But I do think the whole series would be better had the main characters been like 16-18 instead of 11-14.

a couple bits of inappropriate fanservice are far from enough to ruin what is otherwise a masterpiece made in abyss with teens/adults instead of kids would be a very different show, combining that sort of childlike wonder and adventure with a dark and unforgiving world is the main thing that gives the show its unique tone and story just imagine the scene early on with the kids coming up with a silly plan so they can sneak reg past the grown-ups and into the orphanage, it's very charming because you really get to see the world from a child's perspective

wouldn't made in abyss with adults just be berserk?

they're both fantasy and have monsters and violence in them but that's about the only similarities, so no

Most of the childlike wonder is in the first few episodes, after that they basically cease being kids in all but ability to actually deal with the monsters of the abyss. Which is what bugs me, had the beginning 4 episodes been something more like a montage where say, Riko with age and determination gets her blue whistle. Then the whole thing with Reg happens, Lyza's whistle is returned, and bam we're off. It's pretty much my biggest issue with the series, I just can't tonally deal with these 12~ year olds being in the situation they're in. Even in-universe they can't do much character growth, since until Riko is older, she's literally not going to be able to wield most weapons and fight most monsters; which means Reg (Or Nanachi, whom is also probably like ~13) is going to be the deus-ex-machina that has to save her constantly. Something more akin to FMA:B's character growth and age progression (a little quicker though, obviously) would've suited the series a LOT better in my opinion. It would've changed the show, sure, but in a much better way.

i dont agree at all, one of my favorite things about the show is how riko's childlike innocence manages to survive in the harsh world of the abyss even after everything that happens in the last episode she's still a goofy kid who can find endless wonder in a harsh and dangerous world riko not being able to fend for herself is not only an important part of her and reg's character dynamic (she's the brains, he's the brawns) but also consistent with the world, if some kid managed to fight off the horrors of the abyss by herself then what's there to be afraid of? why isnt the place filled to the brim with adventurers? there are some things she can use to defend herself but ultimately both reg and riko need eachother to be able to traverse the abyss also, what's this about calling reg a deus-ex-machina? i dont remember that ever happening

That's actually one of the issues I have, going through what she goes through would change anyone; I don't think she needs to become some edgy husk of a person, but directing a field amputation as you bleed out of every orifice would probably leave you in need of some time to mentally reset. And it's also why I think this being a more coming-of-age (like FMA:B) story would help a lot. As you get older you have to face some shit IRL, and I think MiA could be a really good allegory of this (Plus we can mix it with the pseudo Inferno references that the Abyss is for some serious moral discussions) - as oppose to what we currently have which basically soft core snuff in some areas, then bounces back like it never happened. I also disagree that adults (even in-universe) can't find wonder in such a world, people IRL find wonder in places as harsh as outer space; in-universe it's very clear that while some delvers are motivated by greed (most, even probably, the 4th circle is the domain of Greed in Inferno); many others also delve for that wonder (Such Lyza). Even if we want to stick with the motif of childlike wonder, you can pull that off with 14-16 yr olds well enough without having the monster vs human scenarios be stupid AF. Characters should be more than 2-dimensional in that way, I would much prefer it if they were both older (14-18); and Riko was at least able to do something other than cook and give exposition to explain the Abyss; literally the only time she handles herself is when she gets vore'd and Reg is KO'd. Some growth from the characters (Like Reg learning how to cook a bit, or him starting to make valuable observations about the Abyss) and Riko being a more competent fighter (Doesn't even have to be OP like Reg, can just participate in any manner more than just throwing him a weapon) as they progress; but basically none of that happens. They even had an opportune time (and fruitlessly foreshadowed it) when Ozen makes them survive for 10 days. I'm totally fine with the concept of them needing each-other, but as it stands, Reg being basically indestructible he could just fucking jump down the abyss and be OK, the only reason he stays with Riko is because the story demands it. His introduction is literally a deus-ex-machina, full stop. Only later do they reign in his OPness by stating that once he fires he's KO for 2 hours; but then plays what I consider lose with the rules by having him fire sometimes, and other times use a weapon, purely to keep the story moving forward. There should be a pretty clear distinction when the canon is their only option (Orby) and when a weapon could be used (When he fires the canon and Riko has to carry him, could've used the weapon then, and when they do actually use it against the splitjaw); instead the story just does whatever it feels like to make certain scenes happen, it feels immensely unnatural. Because of this lack of consistency and character growth, I've actually found Nanachi to be the best character, because in just a couple episodes (most of which Riko is fucking gone-zo) she grows and is built into a much more interesting and competent character (esp Reg, who has had very little development) than Riko and Reg.

The entire point of Riko's character is that she doesn't let the abyss take away her optimism and determination. That's what makes her a main character. If it weren't for that, she'd either be a burnt out cynic like Ozen or a deranged obsessive like Bondrewd. She's a hero specifically because she's able to push forward even when the situation she's in is terrifying and hopeless. Reg doesn't stay with Riko because he has to, he stays with her because he wants to. Riko is the glue that keeps the group together. Without Riko, Nanachi would've just committed suicide. Reg probably would have been found by some other group of delvers and been cut up for parts. Her unbreakable optimism is what defines her as a person. Reg is the one that fights the monsters on the outside, she's the one who fights the monsters on the inside. That's why she's the one doing everything in the current arc, because the narehate village is an outward manifestation of inner monstrosity. Complaining that Riko isn't as strong as Reg is like complaining that Frodo isn't as strong as Aragorn. They're both strong in their own different way. Because of this lack of consistency and character growth, I've actually found Nanachi to be the best character, because in just a couple episodes (most of which Riko is fucking gone-zo) she grows and is built into a much more interesting and competent character (esp Reg, who has had very little development) than Riko and Reg. I don't understand why this focus on competence is so important to you. It's like you're missing the entire point of the story. Yeah, Reg and Nanachi are "competent" in that they're good at not dying. But without Riko, neither of them could survive. Made in Abyss without Riko is a story about a little robot boy who's found by some treasure hunters, cut up for parts, and sold. It's a story about a girl who's forced to endure more pain than anyone reasonably can endure and dies alone, filled with regret, knowing she wasn't able to protect her closest friend. In the same way that Frodo represents the humility necessary to avoid becoming a monster in a world where you're tempted by absolute power, Riko represents the childish irrationality necessary to survive in a hostile, hopeless world where the logical thing to do is give up. The idea that the story would be better if they were stronger physically and less humble or childish just, I can't even process that.

This isn't exclusive to her being a kid (again, 14-18 would work fine here); furthermore that's very much the attitude Lyza had as a white whistle (that we see in the anime). I agree that it's her trait (esp compared to Nanachi), but it's basically totally un-touched on as to why she's the way she is; no moral justification for her viewpoint is ever made (Again, compare it to FMA:B where the Elrics have a pretty defined moral code, and as the world is tested against it and their optimism, they mature and develop justifications for them). At least in the Anime so far, Reg's story is P undeveloped; it's really up in the air what would have happened to him if Riko simply didn't exist. Once Season 2 or even 3 comes out and explains (if it does) his origins, then we can speculate. So far the anime hints he was discovered by Lyza at some point. This doesn't mean she has to be basically totally useless in combat, Lyza has so far been portrayed as similarly optimistic, and was a very successful combatant. Sorry, I haven't read Tolkien, nor have I ever particularly liked heavily Tolkien inspired works (RIP ME). My issue is that the dynamic seems very one sided in terms of power, if Riko was a least a bit more able to fight then maybe we could get some development there. So far it really just feels like the story only wants to focus on one character at a time (Since either Reg is either KO'd from using his incinerator, or Riko is KO'd from The Curse), and is why I particularly liked the last few episodes when we get some real meat and development between Nanachi and Reg. I just wish the middle 1/3 of the story was less soft-core snuff and more development. If the point of the story is that childhood innocence (which, I'd argue heavily isn't just one specific aspect, those kids are very clearly robbed of the innocence of violence, pain, and loss) then it's something I don't care for, the "innocence" of optimism isn't restricted to kids, I find the concept that only innocence can view the world with fresh and optimistic eyes to be a particularly unfavorably cynical worldview. If it's something else, then I guess I missed it and you should enlighten me. It was really Reg that talked Nanachi out of suicide (which she wouldn't have anyway because that was basically conditional upon the death of Mitty; the actual probably scenario is even emotionally more disturbing to me IMO: the fact that despite doing everything Nanachi could for Mitty, in death she knows that she'd be leaving Mitty to suffer for eternity.). My issue is with that irrationality, very clearly Riko would be dead af had Reg not volunteered to join. If that's the message then yes I'm arguing for a better "point". As it stands, Reg could basically just jump down the Abyss and live (might hurt but w/e) without any problems (and come back up unharmed too), whereas Riko is literally tissue paper that can be shredded just by ascending a few meters. They could be just as humble (I didn't say Riko needed to be some OP asf fighter, just needs to be able to hold her own in a number battles), and I don't think any of that takes away. I'd much prefer this as a story that conveys a message that despite your suffering, you don't have to become a miserable and cynical person, that suicide isn't a reprieve, and that optimism and empathy are virtues. If the point is literally be dumb and ignorant and don't die because the story compels it, then yeah I think that's P stupid, and I'm glad it's not what I'm getting out of it.

Also, the latest couple of chapters have been almost nothing but Riko using her various strengths to defeat a monster that had, up to that point, been utterly crushing powerful characters that Reg couldn't hope to match. She is becoming independent from Reg and Nanachi, and she is clearly demonstrating her own set of competencies that none of the rest of the group had shown before.

In the Manga? As I've said, I've only watched the anime (which only has season 1 so far). Anyway, I'm intrigued if she comes into her own.

Have you ever had an experience so painful, you felt like you could never be happy again? Something so traumatic it felt like you'd been damaged in some permanent way? I watched a very close loved one of mine die from cancer. After they died, I felt hollowed out. Like my ability to to enjoy being alive was just scooped out of my heart. Life is full of those experiences. Your friend might commit suicide. Your dog might vomit itself to death because its organs start failing. Your child might be born with a severe developmental disease that causes them to live in agony and die before they reach 20, just long enough for them to realize their condition, but not long enough to really live a full life. Life is full of things so unimaginably painful it's hard to imagine they're even real. It isn't just how sad they are, it's the guilt. Did I not talk to my friend enough? Did I not take good enough care of my dog? Was there something I could've done to prevent what happened to my child? That's what losing your innocence is. That's the burden of adulthood. Are adults incapable of moving past these experiences? Sure. That's what MiA is about. Enduring, overcoming, and moving past those horrific experiences. It has to be about kids because it has to be about people who are experiencing these things for the first time, and the only people who haven't experienced painful and traumatic and sad and disgusting things are the people who haven't experienced much of anything at all. Kids.

i dont want to turn this into a really long argument so i'm going to try (and fail) to keep this short again, what you're asking for is a different show, made in abyss doesnt try to be and shouldnt have to be about as you get older you have to face some shit IRL, yes, and that's exactly what the abyss is supposed to be (at least on a thematic level), but instead of being a story about the characters being forcibly turned into adults by it, it's a story about childhood being able to survive in a harsh world that's not to say the characters don't grow, the growth is subtle but it's there, you can't expect the main thematic conflict of the show to be resolved when the anime adaptation is only halfway through the manga that is still far from finished nobody's saying adults can't find wonder in the abyss, but again, that's not what the show is about, it's specifically about childhood also, she did need time to mentally reset, which was her coma she was in anquish as shown by her dream, but mitty's presence is what helped her recover and rediscover herself ozen's training is a great example of what i mean, riko is the one who's able to come up with a plan to catch the large beast, reg wouldn't have been able to do that on his own also, i dont understand this focus on fighting you put, the show is not an action show and the fighting is not a focus it's ludicrous to expect a normal human child to be able to fight against beasts that can instantly kill even experienced adventurers, and if she becomes "a competent fighter" against them that would completely ruin the believability of the story and there's no reason the main character should need to be able to fight, in fact her not being a fighter makes her a much more interesting main character in my opinion reg is far from indestructible, he might seem it at first but already on the 4th layer a beast like the orbed piercer could've easily killed him, it was able to pierce him without much effort and we already know the beasts will keep getting more and more dangerous the deeper they get as we've already seen, there are plenty of flying beasts who can catch things in the air, so no, he wouldn't be able to jump down and be OK, he'd get eaten pretty quickly i find the idea that the introduction of the second main character in chapter 1 of the story somehow being a deus-ex-machina bizarre him getting knocked out after firing was always a thing, that's why he's unconcious when riko finds him him learning when to and when not to use his ability is part of his development, the episode with riko having to fend for herself teaches her to not stray away from reg to investigate things by herself (which she doesnt afterwards) and him to really only ever use his cannon as an absolute last resort (unless he's extremely emotional like with the second time he encounters orby) reg and riko are developing slowly because there's no need to rush things with the story, there's plenty to go and it's only going to keep getting harder from now on also if there's anything you want to complain about with reg's abilities, it should be his inconsistent arm length personally that doesnt bother me because i see the story as more of a fairytale, so the basic idea of "girl and astroboy go on an adventure to find her mom" is the important part there's no explanation for the way she is yet for the same reason that we dont know reg's background yet the story's far from over, no need to ruin the characters' mystery by revealing all their cards yet lyza is also one of the handful of people to be such an incredibly skilled explorer, there's no way a kid with practically no experience in the abyss could be as skilled as her without completely ruining all believability your story has she's no shonen hero again, you're putting so much focus on fighting and action, which is not what the show is focusing on in the show's point of view, riko's mental fortitude is just as important as reg's physical strength i also dont understand this "soft-core snuff" thing you keep pointing to, the brutality of the environment is vital for the story and showing its effects on people is essential and again, as i've said, there is development, it's subtle since we're only at the beginning of the story still, but it's not like the show just becomes filler at any point the kids havent been robbed of their innocence by the violence, pain and loss of the world, and that's the entire point of the story you're missing the point with the "innocence of optimism", the story is specifically about childhood innocence if you dont care for it, that's fine, your opinions are your own and you dont have to like whatever i like, but that doesnt mean the show should be about something else instead riko would be dead if she hadn't found reg, yes, that's the beginning of the story for a reason, if reg didnt exist there would be no made in abyss i've already mentioned why reg would not be able to "just jump down the abyss and live", especially without riko's smarts and knowledge of the abyss riko being fragile is a part of what makes the story work so well, just like the comparison to aragorn and frodo that Mr. Scorpio brought up, her holding up on her own just by herself would either directly or indirectly make her less relatable, the story less believable and unique, the tension and danger less palpable, the atmosphere less immersive and ultimately the setting less interesting I'd much prefer this as a story that conveys a message that despite your suffering, you don't have to become a miserable and cynical person, that suicide isn't a reprieve, and that optimism and empathy are virtues. that sounds pretty applicable to made in abyss to me, though a bit generic and common as a main message for a story tl;dr made in abyss isn't about action and doesnt have to be, and therefore the main character doesnt have to be a fighter reg is far from indestructible childhood innocence surviving in a harsh environment is the main theme of made in abyss character development is happening slowly and subtly, there's no need to rush things in a story that isnt even halfway through riko is essential for reg's survival just as much as reg is for riko's, even if mental fortitude isnt as obvious a strength as physical power

I think most of it boils down to this. You've made some good points, I'll sleep on it and see what I think tomorrow. I might need to give it a rewatch, but dunno if I can handle that right now.

i would recommend giving it a rewatch, i rewatched it the day after i finished it in case you watched it while it was airing, the pacing definitely works way better if you marathon it (or at least watch in big chunks), it's paced more like one very long movie than an episodic show so the episodes that might feel pointless by themselves dont when marathoned i'll definitely have to pick up the manga to see where it's gone since the anime