Forum Discussion - v. Please Don't Call Hezzy A Cunt
999 replies, posted
I understand where you're coming from and I sympathise with Trek to a degree - I've been here for longer than most so I definitely understand that people feel and act very strongly about this place - but you should know we've always had a very low tolerance for shitflingers and given people the big boot for far less stupid shit in the past. All of them knew it as well and decided to act nonetheless, I think, which to me is what makes me really not care about them that much. If you're gonna be a dick instead of being constructive, I don't think you have a place in any community.
Also, remember the last time people didn't agree with new rules and tried to act out by shitposting as much as they could while very carefully skirting the rules? I can't remember those we left behind last, but I feel we've been through this exact situation before with new people on the same roles.
I'd argue that this cycle shouldn't repeat again and again, but I'd also argue that if people remained rational instead of snapping, there wouldn't be a cycle in the first place. Of course, there's also the argument that people don't snap on their own - but I err more on the side of personal responsibility.
I've tried to find the type r joke threads though and couldn't find them, so I don't have any context, do you have a link I can borrow? Here's a speed weed for your troubles in advance
They were all contained in the AA subforum & they've been deleted now. We were still trying to figure out why exactly we had a subforum and garry or someone said "idk just make a thread for everything instead of using the megathread" so people did it to take the piss. They were all banned + threads deleted. Yes it was silly but it was an honest attempt to illustrate why the subforum thing was a shit idea after verbal protests were ignored. Obviously it was a bad idea because now the only active thread in AA is the megathread again.
Have a safe trip! Thanks for engaging, I feel this is what makes a difference.
https://imgkk.com/i/iplx.png
this is why they were "spamming"
you (yes, you) decided that discussing the course of action with garry was too much work and just went and closed everything that vaguely resembled a megathread. people got rightfully pissed and their retaliation was malicious compliance.
most everyone has put that particular bout of ineptitude behind them by now. why haven't you returned the favor?
Before I hit the sack lemme tap out this last turd on my phone if I can.
I keep seeing people say shit like “it’s just a forum who cares” or derivative thoughts and i want to address that.
My user card says I’ve been here for 12 years; this is my second account. My first, an 04er, was pruned some time in ages past and I don’t think there are any records of it now, even in the broken guest posts that used to show for deleted accounts.
I’m 23. That means I’ve been here since I was 9, over half my life. I’m a functioning adult with a house and a car and a social life and all the bells and whistles. But this place has been an important constant in my life for as far back as my working memory goes. Through the worst moments of my life and the best, this stupid forum has been there. I’ve made friendships here that I expect will last my lifetime. I’ve found hobbies and learned skills and expanded my interests and learned about other cultures. This is where I truly developed my politics and learned to have an opinion rather than take the first thing I heard. This place even taught me to speel good.
Believe me when I say I love this forum, I mean it. It’s my internet launchpad and I hope it will continue to be for as long as there’s an internet.
And believe me I know this place would be nowhere without garry or hezzy or craptasket or any of the other dudes I’ve had pointed words for in the past few months. That’s why I think it means so much that I’m saying them, and that other people with the same experience as me are saying them. I wouldn’t be here if this place didn’t truly mean something to me and I wouldn’t be criticizing the people who made it what it is today if I didn’t truly mean what I was saying.
I expect my story is pretty average among the long term users here and I’m sure there are plenty to whom this place means much much more. It really isn’t just an internet forum. There’s no way to word it that doesn’t sound pathetic, but it really is so much more. Please reconsider the current direction of the forums.
oh okay mate i'll just unban a bunch of people because i made a mistake 3 months ago
honestly the new rules haven't disrupted my posting habits in the slightest. i guess if anything i feel less nervous about making threads since the OP isn't going to necessarily be a monolith of necessary information. that's just my two cents, though.
i'll throw my hat into the ring of unbanning trek, yeah the spammy threads were spammy but we're going through some growing pains and i think some leniency is due. fuck mezz tho
Posts will follow this structure when the forum design lends itself to it. Frankly this shouldn't involve moderation at all, you shouldn't be closing megathreads. If the format fulfills this purpose, makes it the most convenient and enjoyable way to use the forums, then posting will organically adapt. If you need to step in to dictate how discussion should work, the format's failed
And question: what other site does this? Old Facepunch didn't, Reddit doesn't do it, and no social media I've heard of does it. So where did this idea come from?
Garry. We're looking into solutions and ideas that could help change this, for example I sent an idea to garry earlier involving "forks" in threads; keeping megathreads but also allowing people to direct navigate to topics within the megathread. It'd be a very similar structure to what we're after now, except it'd look like it was all in one thread instead of a forum.
crucially, your mistake. typically when people make a mistake, they'll do what they can to right their wrongs. purging dissenters and then saying "my bad" isnt righting anything.
Film, TV & Music -> Starwars Discussion (traditional)
Like I'd imagine another example for CSGO,
Underneath it, you'd have all the different threads for it.
Panorama discussion, Patch Update discussion, Digital Sports event shit
Pretty much a main reason why this is being pushed so hard
I am sure we can think up ways to even keep child threads in spotlight.
Child threads could cost a single coin
Child threads last a whole month
Child threads offering a bounty float
who knows
please dont enable child actors, they just end up broken abd drug-addled
Yeah, seeing clickbait PC GAMER articles being spammed in the games section is pretty shit. One article said something about the new Nvidia cards coming out and knowing the release date. But when you click it, they say they dont know and shrug.
I don't think an agree rating is enough to emphasize how similar my viewpoint on this forum is
The people getting angry and "shitposting in protest" were the ones who actually cared enough about the forum to put their account on the line
Everyone else has already just stopped showing up
All the old threads I used to keep up with have slowed to a crawl. Meta is the only forum I can be bothered to check anymore.
Hmm, Had an idea that could be discussed
Do you think this could be used well for video threads by channels that get posted often
I'd imagine that their main thread might not get a lot of traffic, but I know a few do have their megathreads right now (oneyplays and jerma come to mind)
I don't really visit these threads often at all, so I don't know how much traffic they usually get, and how much talk there is over a video/topic
But on the other hand, is this better or worse than making a new thread for each video if they are occurrences are more few and far between
I just don't know how to express my criticisms without sounding mean anymore, and I'm not trying to be mean. Some of the proposed ideas just seem downright insane or badly designed to me. I don't believe anyone could explain to me the concept of forking threads and assure me that it would actually be compatible with the normal flow of a conversation. I also think that eliminating megathreads isn't going to make the forum look more active. Instead, it's going to make people not want to post threads because they can't say things that are thread-worthy. The changes that have already happened along with the proposed changes just seem silly but presented straight-faced.
Let me reassure people that all I want to do is hold a conversation, check a few threads that I'm subscribed to, and move on. I don't want to venture into the forum. I don't want to spend the energy on checking an entire forum of small updates to existing projects when I could just check a thread that has all of the posts contained in one singular thread that saves where I last left off. And chances are that's what a lot of people want. Again, this is not meant to be offensive, but I don't think a lot of people care about the vision for this forum. Especially when people don't really seem to be able to steer the wheel at all. Things just kind of happen and it's not what people asked for and it's not something that makes posting easier.
Here are the only features I care about:
Read new posts page with new posts for the entire forum and posts I'm subscribed to
Auto-subscribe on page visit
Maybe a way to automatically parse markdown as I type so I don't have to use the WYSIWYG editor or an entirely separate editor I can enable altogether
Being able to edit quotes without having to delete them and reselect (remember, WYSIWYG is supposed to be easier than Markdown and other forms of user input, not harder)
And I can understand those not being fulfilled, because hey, that's just my opinion! But you know what isn't finished? Fixed word-wrapping in text boxes. That's literally a bug with a fundamental part of the forum experience. It's been months and it hasn't been fixed. Instead, megathreads are being broken up, coins are abandoned, meta threads are being straight up shut down, and garry's threatened that if he doesn't like how the forum has turned out he's just outright getting rid of the forums. That's not very reassuring when decisions have entirely been impulsive so far (sometimes with disdain for the end user in the case of coin abandonment), and I guess I'd just describe the user experience for the past month or two as being annoying.
I would donate to a Patreon if I'd be able to have a stronger opinion that means something to someone and had a noticeable effect on how things move along, but I'd say my hopes aren't very high. I left them behind, honestly, and just waiting around hoping for the best while being regularly taunted with "tough, we're doing things my way until I delete the forums. There's no going back to the way things were and I'll take any criticism as a basis for completely abandoning features". And that sucks because it's not like I dislike garry, or the staff, or the website. There are things that I like about it. But right now I don't think I even really have a voice to steer the forum in a decent direction for me, the end user of the whole thing. At the end of the day it's a forum designed by garry for garry.
I can tell you this one has the least chance of happening, garry's pretty much against it. I did recommend a markdown to delta input, no response but I didn't expect one anyway
I've already moved on to keyboard shortcuts, teaching people this is a lot easier than remembering some symbols. The only thing here is that not every attribute has one.
Oh, I know for sure it's not going to happen. I know for sure a lot isn't going to happen. This is why I said the forum isn't made for the end-user, it's made for garry at the end of the day. In some ways, it's admirable because without it we wouldn't have had cool ideas like the coin system. But then he isn't consistent and listens to people just enough to abandon it, complaining about people "bitching" about it. My worry is that he'll make a forum that suits his needs, he'll be told that people don't like it, and then just delete the forums altogether.
Sure, keyboard shortcuts are great, but there isn't a keyboard shortcut to quote people nor is there a keyboard shortcut to fix quotes. It's only halfway towards being as convenient as a word processor, which is why I'd rather do it myself.
To me, this just sounds overcomplicated. Kinda spreads the megathread too thin if there's just a bunch of separate threads underneath it.
I'd like the idea more if forks still posted within the main thread like normal. They could still show up underneath the megathread and you could join a fork by posting within one or quoting it's post in the main thread. That way it's just easy sorting of discussions.
There's also no sane way in removing quotes on mobile
Like I can say what I can about the post editor, but in the end of the day, it really is just unfinished and not on any priority list, I guess the same goes with word wrapping.
I'm pretty sure the focus is the core systems/design still. And these things are in a good enough state until other core parts of the site are in a place where garry finds it acceptable.
And it's important to not forget that this is only one of every other task garry has to consider working on. Building a house, raising a second child, working on Tub etc. Pretty sure development would be much further if these weren't as important as they are
The irony is that gaming megathreads are the only ones not getting buried under all those PCG threads. Any small topic finds itself on page 3 or 4 by the end of a day. Those are two separate problems for the price of one.
Ultraspecific Subforums do Not Work
these specific subforums will not work on facepunch, ever. This anti-megathrread crusade is misguided and pointless as we are not reddit and I’d really like to see you tackle these points head-on instead of dodging it with “garry’s vision”, and “like it or leave”.
Honestly just get rid of the PCGamer feed for now. Most of what it posts is garbage, only a tiny minority of the threads even get posted in, and the bugs with some articles getting posted multiple times.
Until there's some system to filter them out or they get stuck into a dedicated subforum (which from what I understand Garry is foursquare against), I strongly believe i'm not far off the mark in assuming most people would prefer that they, and other users, browse PCGamer themselves and share the articles they find interesting.
Hezzy made a note on this thread in the OP
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Forum Discussion - v. Please Don't Call Hezzy A Cunt
