It still freaks me out how many times cops shoot at people in these kinds of videos. Yeah, 12 shots from 10 feet away, you probably got the guy. They're shooting to kill, not to stop. I can understand that the threat to the cop and to citizens has to be neutralized in the moment, but I think after 3 you're good.. There's just no badguy to prosecute/"take off the streets" if you empty a whole magazine into him right?
You shoot till they stop which 90% of the time is when they are dead, when you're firing your gun you don't know how many are hitting exactly or how hes taking them, this isn't like a video game where giant blood splats appear and you can clearly count how many times he was shot. You shoot until he stops moving period.
When you shoot, you shoot to kill. A wounded criminal is still a threat.
Realize this.
Pistol rounds can impact people and they still come at you. Druggies that are hyped up on PCP and other stimulants can legitimately shrug off the pain and keep going despite their body getting torn up. This can happen with rifle rounds. But again these guys are not unarmed they had been shooting at people and showed 0 regard for the well being of others prior. They were dangerous, the Cop took the appropriate measures to neutralize a threat. Big fucking whoop, he killed a murder suspect who had point a gun at him and was previous firing shots off randomly before dying. If you pose a legitimate threat to an officer IE charging at him, having a firearm and trying to shoot back, your life is fair game to a pain whose specifically trained to shoot til you're fucking dead. This is why in the military we practice a drill called "Failure to Stop."
This drill is designed to make sure the person attacking you CANNOT move anymore or is effectively killed. The reason is because the 5.56 round is noted for not being powerful or big enough to drop a body after several shots.
The man fired into civilians deliberately and drone into oncoming traffic. What exactly is the officer supposed to deduce from this behavior?
The cops in my neck of the woods a re a literal armed gang, nowhere does that compel the belief that every cop is a gun toting mouthbreather intent on ending the life on anyone whom crosses their athoritah.
A pistol is not an incredibly accurate weapon, let alone being fired from a moving vehicle through a windshield. Anyone that only needs 3 bullets to neutralize a suspect in this scenario is probably a master marksman. Not to mention theres two people in the vehicle, so really that's a SINGLE bullet for each one, and an extra bullet incase you were sloppy and missed a shot driving 30mph and shooting through a windshield
And for example, how many shots did the criminals fire at the officer? At least a dozen? And not a single one even hit his windshield, and the shooter was in the passenger seat and didn't have to worry about driving and reporting back on a radio.
Basically your expectations are ludicrous.
"yeah i think three shots from my glock should do it" is how you'd end up dead if you were a cop
I know it's because they do it every day and probably deal with these sort of situations quite frequently, but it sounds really odd to me how uninterested the woman over the radio sounded throughout the whole thing.
This is true of all dispatchers for any emergency service. They need to keep detached and calm, having a clear head in stressful situations means they can actually organise other units to assist or provide accurate information in a timely manner.
Public facing or internal, dispatchers have to be rock solid.
And that's why you couldn't be a cop.
Christ I've never seen a body cam catch this much action, it's like Hardcore Henry
Can't imagine how a similar chase would go down in the UK. We have a system where chases can be called off for being too dangerous to pursue. If they're driving at absurd speeds and they're not stopping but you have the vehicle details, chasing them will make them continue driving erratically until someone gets hurt, falling back and letting them think they got away while the air unit's deployed makes everything less risky. But that's without cop killers firing recklessly on busy roads
I'm more curious about the end honestly. Admittedly can't see very well, but that lobbing of rounds into the suspect vehicle when they had come to a stop was rough, was he being threatened at that point?
Adrenaline and just being sure he got him probably. Looks like he probably took a hit around 3:57 and the cop confirms a kill at 3:59. It's morbid as fuck but I presume they make sure they're dead so they don't get back up and shoot them (like when his head is fully exposed at the end of the video)
The driver was starting to roll the truck again. He was absolutely a threat. There is also no way for the officer to know if only the passenger was armed or if both were and the driver might open fire.
Yeah, I can sort of get that but I do still find morality of it very problematic. In Finland cops tend to be very conservative with shooting even in high pressure situations. You don't get that syndrome with an entire mag spent on a guy or something.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, when you start shooting you're shooting to kill, and you need to fire as many rounds as you need to make sure the guy is no longer a threat.
I really don't understand how people are trying to paint the cop as reckless, he was essentially dealing with an active shooter situation. The threat of being shot was already there because of the suspects shooting out the back of their window, the cop only used equal force to end the situation before any bystanders got hurt.
The suspects attempted to murder a police officer and people are actually giving the officer shit for returning fire? He ended what was going to end up into a massive car wreck or possible shoot out in a civilian dense area, he took action on a roadway which wasn't nearly as busy as the main road he was on.
Don't really see anyone here doing that.
I'm impressed with how quickly he reloaded under pressure.
What would of been negligent is to allow the chase to continue on with the suspects actively shooting at the the officers.
Still missing my clearly explained point I see.
Sometimes the differences between the US and the rest of the developed world blow me away. It seems like we are really similar but there is something fundamentally different in Americans with regards to peoples lives and your idea of justice.
It's really interesting to read your guys comments about police shootings in particular.
From the description of the video where they finally stopped those guys, it was at an elementary school. That's terrifying and probably the last place you would ever want a police chase to get near, let alone end.
An even better reason to 100% make sure the suspects are put to a stop right then and there, instead of "firing 3 times and seeing if the suspect is disabled" or whatever.
The amount he shot was fine IMO. He didn't have a clear sight to see whether the target was down. But that other video posted by Viper is a bit different. They had a clear sight on the downed suspect. And then they spend half a minute shooting him with 6 officers. They even reloaded and emptied that magazine too. Even if only 30% of the shots fired after he was down hit him, that would still be over 100 shots, on someone who is already lifeless on the ground. That seems like excessive force to me.
The shooting seems directly related to making the car crash into the wall. Can be a lot of reasons for it, maybe the driver got hit, maybe the stress of being shot at made them crash, maybe a tire was hit (Left rear tire looks flat when he exits the car but I'm not sure on that one).
For certain, however, the chase ended only moments after the cop started shooting back, and no innocents were hurt at any point.
Did the he even think about his backstop?
Yes police should not be allowed to shoot dangerous suspects who are already discharging weapons unless the suspect is up against a large mound of dirt.
So what y'all are saying is that he didn't have control over the situation or a clue what/where the threats were so he unloaded the entire magazine into the one guy after the one suspect (the one shooting), ran off on foot.
Sounds like good policing to me
Literally this. Dude had crashed/veered off the road, seemingly because he was already shot a few times when the cop got up beside him and shot at him..
I am literally about to become one in my hometown. Guess I better not because you don't think I should be one! Thank you
Sounds like you have great faith in your police force.
Maybe you do that in your country.
They're pretty accurate. Or at least I am.
Even in Canada it's a totally different story. Then again our country isn't a literal battleground for criminals to terrorize people on with cops that are equally as unprofessional and violent.
Great way to start a comment. Great way to not have it read.
Knowing American police, it doesn't matter what they do to citizens, be it collateral damage or otherwise. They'll never get in trouble.
Shit guys, I guess I'm just a big dumb baby with no worldly experience or perspective. Sorry for making a scene, now I know my place.
plus anyone that thinks that one shot should be enough / "excessive force was deployed" "there has to be a better way". Here's a video that goes into the deep situation that a liquor store owner and her daughter had to go through when a man robbed them at gunpoint left for a second, then came back when the resulting firefight happened. If you are being conservative on how many rounds were actually present in the owners guns then you can count 13-14 rounds. Of course it's tough to say that every round hit so 8-9 is a more fair assumption. Still if you watch the video you can see the suspect covered in his own blood but yet he is still up and about ready to argue with the owners right before trying to wrestle one of the guns away to try to attempt to shoot them. So this situation is exactly why police officers are trained to kill to stop the threat. Anything less would bring in a percent chance that the armed suspect would act like this dude in the video and just get right back up before continuing his spree. Of course big spoiler for the video but it's noteworthy to mention. The dude falls down eventually in the video but he eventually gets up and makes his way to the local hospital before police find him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkiZ0KJYQpg
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