HBO's This Is What The Life Of An Incel Looks Like
153 replies, posted
They're the exact same concept. Internalized toxic attitudes toward your own gender, caused by society's expectations.
It impacts genders in different ways that are frankly pointless to compare. Maybe it makes men more aggressive, maybe it makes women more self destructive.
Doesn't matter when the solution is simply to treat everyone neutrally and respectfully.
It is utterly fucking ridiculous. All of my encounters with Incels have revealed that they're usually early 20's. The oldest I've spoken to was just in their 30's.
But as easy as it is to laugh at how insane their view of reality is, their conception that they're failures due to being sexless at 23 highlights an actual problem they're struggling with.
When young men are complaining that they're suicidal because they haven't had sex at 23 years of age, we actually have a tangible problem to grip onto. A tangible problem we can fix to make life easier for these guys. It falls under that umbrella term of "toxic masculinity", which is also a term Incel-types are likely to quickly dismiss.
While they may think that their issues come from society and their inability to have sex, we all obviously know that their issues stem from how they perceive those things. We can't always help how they perceive things. But what we should at all costs avoid doing, is virginity-shame these dudes. Even the most abhorrent, bottom-of-the-bucket Incel's shouldn't be virgin-shamed. What you gain in undermining them you lose in continuing to push this idea that ones virginity is integral to their personality.
By this post you might think I believe there's some genuine, wide-spread problem with virginity shaming. I generally don't believe there's a wide-spread problem, but I believe, even aside from the Incel movement, men's value on virginity is a massive problem that you can't entirely blame on men themselves. Society doesn't really put a whole lot of weight on men's virginities these days, but it's obviously still putting enough pressure on some individuals to create this horrifying Incel movement, among other things.
This post doesn't refer to anyone or anything in this thread, by the way. Rather the Internet's observation of Incel's at large.
All crabs are good at is holding back other crabs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipg4EL_JUyE
It's common to see the label "virgin" being thrown around as an insult on the internet. It's made to be a huge deal in media and online. One of my friends thinks he's an ugly creep just because he's 23 y/o virgin. I'm constantly telling him that it doesn't matter and even I'm in the same boat as him. But I learned to stop giving a shit about it and I've felt happier about myself ever since.
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"tumblr isn't fitting my specific arbitrary criteria, so it's worthless." As if you're up there with fucking Socrates for posting on Facepunch.
"no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who
perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that
action is not criticism of the group - Wikipedia definition.
"This, for example, is not what "furry" is to most furries. You find
outliers in every community, of course, but you're being really silly by
painting a wide brush like this on everyone."
???
That's not No True Scotmans, that's your run of the mill generalisation fallacy
??? It's the opposite dude, you're invoking the fallacy. You're saying that furries believe in fucking animals.
No true scotsman is the following:
P1: All X are Y.
P2: Clearly, not all X are Y.
C1: All true X are Y.
Taken from wikipedia btw, same thing you got your definition from. Just replace X and Y with your literal position
P1: All furries are animal rapists.
P2 (That's me here btw): Clearly, not all furries are animal rapists.
C1: All true furries are animal rapists.
Hey presto, we have the last 3 pages of you saying stupid shit without any evidence to back it other than stupid anecdotes.
You might want to go back to 3rd grade syllogistic logic before you make yourself appear even more stupid and prejudiced than you already have.
It seems he's so hateable he got banned from the new incel website haha
https://incels.me/members/therealcaamib.8395/
Every time I've seen pictures of self-described "incels" they're all pretty normal looking. But surely their genetics prevent them from getting women, not their misogynistic views or rock bottom self-image or the fact that they consider shitting their pants a hilarious meme.
Inceldom is an abusive relationship. "Normies don't actually care about you or they'd offer you sex. We're the only ones who care about you. Desensitization to suicide by joking is just therapeutic dark humor. Never mind all the incels who kill themselves. If you have sex, you were volcel, never incel to begin with. You don't belong." Just a misogyny and depression reinforcement group.
Yeah, It's a little sad that the virgin vs chad meme has been taken so seriously by the kind of people that become incels- because i always thought it was literally invented to take the piss out of people trying to pick on shy socially awkward guys.
Iirc they thing it's cheating or disgusting or something along those lines
A lot of them seem to consider any woman who has ever had sex before unclean. Perish the thought of them having sex with a prostitute.
I also wouldn't want to inflict them upon a sex worker either.
Then you're just an escortcel, still basically an incel but you could afford a prostitute once.
But seriously, that would not do anything to heal these people.They're not upset about being virgins, they're upset with not living up to their own warped beliefs about masculinity and being attractive to women.
And women not living up to their puritanical beliefs about sex (which of course do not apply to men) and objectively untrue beliefs about biology.
I'm sure most sex workers have dealt with worse.
Speaking as someone who (at one point) could have very easily become an incel, I feel pretty bad for anybody who is an incel. I can't even begin to imagine how much anger they have stored up inside of them. It starts as depression and self-pity and transforms into aggression as their feelings continue to churn and accumulate. It's way more complicated than "they just don't understand how the world works" or "they just need to pay for a hooker". Incels crave validation. They need to feel like they have a purpose, like they belong in something. It's not just pent up anger from not having sex. It's a feeling of being literally completely alone, where you feel that nobody cares about you. You feel worthless and your life does not feel worth living. You acknowledge that you're probably never going to find yourself in something meaningful, and that's when it gets worse. Your feelings of pity and despair continue to evolve and shape into this disgusting monster that just makes you angry. It makes you angry at everything.
They don't just want sex. Incels have a whole host of problems, specifically a truckload of anxiety issues which can probably be assumed as the root cause of their entire personality. It's a vicious cycle. These people were off doing their own thing while their friends and peers were getting involved in relationships in school, having sex, etc. But anxiety held them back from trying it out too. There's nothing wrong with this. Some people are more comfortable than others.
The problem is when they age. As they get older, they start feeling incapable of ever getting into a relationship or even having sex, because they "missed out" on the baby steps of the whole process when they were younger. This in turn makes their anxiety even worse. "I didn't get any of the experience I needed back then, how can I even have a chance now?" It's less about sex and more about the entire process of becoming intimate with another person. It's really easy to be 25 years old and think "I've never even held a girls hand, what the fuck is wrong with me?"
Incels hate who they are. They can act narcissistic and egocentric but it's just a manifestation of their true feelings. They hate everything about themselves. They think they're ugly, stupid, and awkward. But it ends up becoming rationalized as a problem caused by everyone else. It ends up this way because they are too afraid to face their own emotions. I mean, if you think you're a completely worthless genetic dead-end waste of space, you too would not want to spend much time thinking about that. So, they know and acknowledge that they hate who they are, and they think this can be cured if they just find someone else to love them. Unfortunately for them, you can't possibly expect someone else to love you if you can't even love yourself.
Incels are absolutely to blame for all their problems. It's just very sad to me that they don't have the confidence to take a look inside of themselves and realize that they're the one with the problem.
Just personally, for me that makes it worse. I look at myself in the mirror and I think "I'm not that bad" but then I see on the news, all these people who like, beat their wives and stuff, and it sticks with me, because if these people could go as far as to get married, then what the hell is wrong with me? I am a worse person than someone who actively beats their partner.
24-years old fapless virgin here. I'm proud of my virginity, and I am in voluntary celebacy. Reading this thread is like being Karl Marx and hearing for the first time about nazis. The society we live in spreads such a weird perception of sex, yet isn't it common sense that sex is unimportant in life, only love really matters. I rejected sex (though not love) and I think I'm better off without it.
Having lived under one of those wife beating fucks as a kid, that's largely explainable as the abuser presenting themselves as nicer than they were or suffering some kind of problem later in the relationship that lets them dehumanise their partner. They were probably perfectly sociable and pleasant to hang around with at one point after all.
Relationships and all that still utterly perplex me to be honest, I can generally make friends relatively easy, enjoy the company of others as much as someone introverted can and as far as I know, nobody I've met particularly dislikes me. But I still can't quite work relationships out as I seem to always be behind whatever's actually going on socially around me (pretty sure at least two of my friends at uni were trying to hint they wanted me to ask them out...only clocked on to that a year later each time). But I realise these are problems with me, not the people around me. So incels are fucking confusing in how they manage to twist self-reflection of their problems into "actually no its everybody else who sucks not me". I just cannot fathom that mindest.
It's really this, I remember for a really long time I struggled with self confidence issues and had several people tell me it's confidence that's key to catching other people's attention. Once I stopped caring so much about it and confidence naturally came in, I started talking to more and more people and being known as a genuinely friendly person, and that confidence eventually built up into actually going and taking a shot with a girl that if I was the person before, would of never even thought of trying to approach. And she helped me realize that looks can only go so far.
It's a weird thing but personality shapes someone's looks, shitty personalitys end up making even good looking people look bad
Sex is really overrated. I understand that its partially a cultural thing to loose your virginity etc., but I feel so stupid I used to care so much about it back when I was a virgin. I am basically the same person that I was before, if anything it was getting into a relationship that impacted me postively more.
I used to browse one of those incel forums years ago and something I noticed was that most of them had a really rough time in schooling.
Many of them were bullied and literally had 0 friends throughout all of their schooling. Combine this with the fact that their grades were always poor, and you get someone who thinks they're too stupid to learn something, too un-charismatic to at least have friends to support them, and too useless to integrate into society.
Really they just want to feel normal, since throughout their youth they've only been shunned for whatever reason. For them getting a girlfriend is like the pinnacle of being a normal human, since it means their at least their likeable enough for someone to want a relationship with them.
Then when they start asking for advice online. They're told "just be yourself, just be confident" but this doesn't work, because they've never been confident their whole life, so they don't even know what it means to be confident in the first place. And when they try to be themselves they just can't talk like a normal person because they've been raised on chans their whole life and didn't learn how to be social.
Their self worth is so damn low too since all they've done is browse chans / watch anime. They have almost no skills whatsoever (including social) and have never accomplished anything so they see themselves as unable to do anything productive. Also anytime they encounter the slightest bit of resistance for something they give up, because in their youth they were told that they were a failures.
Like it's not just a "I can't get a girlfriend thing" these are people who think they're genuinely incompatible with society and just can't accomplish anything, because throughout their whole youth they've only been put down over and over again even after asking for help.
I think he knows, he self identifies as mentalcel in the video. The way he describes this makes me think he realizes he's semi attractive and that it's his social and mental health issues that are the cause, not his physical attributes.
Teach them that they can actually achieve things if they don't give up immediately when things get hard.
Really that's the biggest mental block that I think they have. They always complain how Chad has all the money, all the charisma, and the best social status but they never actively work on gaining those things themselves.
It doesn't even have to be something that leads to them getting a girlfriend as long as it's an achievable goal that they can be proud of, because it'll raise their self esteem which I think is the root of the problem. The whole fake it till you make it thing also doesn't work with them because:
1: They've been told they were failures since youth as a result of bullying and having no friends. Now it's basically engraved in their brain.
2: The only positive experiences they've ever had is from browsing the internet and watching anime.
Most of them already realise how their youth damaged their adulthood, but they think they're too far gone to ever recover. The thing is they can recover over time, but they never learned how
achieving small goals can make larger goals easier. So they think "Oh I can never get muscles like that, it would take me years!", when in reality if they only focused on the smaller goals they
wouldn't give up so easy since they're easier to achieve.
Basically if they learned the value of micro goals they can be fixed.
Basically:
Small goals --> Small Achievements --> Medium Achievements --> Big Achievements --> Self esteem boost --> Confidence boost --> Girlfriend --> ???
Also I remember years ago on one of those incels sites, there was someone who made a thread about how all anyone does on the site is refresh the page over and over. He made the point
that incels had a one up on normal people, in that they have so much free time to learn new things. "Chad" had to deal with jobs, picking out clothes, relationships, helping out friends, as apposed to incels who had way more time to practice things, to the point at which they'd eventually become gods and better than Chad in whatever they were working on.
I think that's a decent solution, to just spam these communities with topics like the one above. This teaches them that it's actually possible for them to achieve goals, while boosting their self
esteem a little.
I really think you're overegging my 'position'- purposely. Obviously all furries aren't animal rapists. Obviously. I haven't *anywhere* said they all are. I find it *utterly* reiduclous that you'e based your entire argument around the fallacious point that I have somehow said they all are. All I have indicated is that, on the whole, the furry population is more likely to engage in animal abuse. This is arguably highly provable, despite academic studies not having focused on the area, that within a group fo people who get off on the idea of 'yiffing' each other and the idea of animals doing it/doing it with animals, more people than the general population will end up abusing animals.
You've purposely misrepresented or accidentally misunderstood my posts. My overall point has been the following; becoming a 'furry' is a result of a young person predisposed to the idea of human anthropomorphism (and identifying as such) meeting like-minded individuals online... which they wouldn't have prior to the development of niche areas of the internet. The majority of these people upon finding these communities take it too far and for too long, at great cost to their personal relationships and their bank accounts. The minority take it even further and actively abuse animals. The reason it gets this far is because this behaviour is normalized within their own community.
Your point: "This, for example, is not what "furry" is to most furries. You find outliers in every community, of course, but you're being really silly by painting a wide brush like this on everyone". Maybe using a 'no true scotsman' was too far, I acknowledge, but all you have said is that 'oh most furries don't publicly condone that so their ensconcement in these potentially damaging communities, in which individuals do actually do this stuff, seems to be fine'. My entire point has been that the content of these communities isn't the important thing, rather the mental state of users after engaging with these communities is.
Finally, I don't care for your attitude. You haven't provided any evidence other than 'stupid anecdotes' to back up your position either. Nor have I resulted to throwing insults at you but... you might want to go back to the third grade in order to learn how to engage with other people in a respectful manner.
I'd like to think I'm not prejudiced. I'm slightly centre-right and I post on here afterall (research showing that on political points, this website skews far left to left). I love seeing what you all have to say. Ultimately I'd say in this disagreement, you and your arrogance is the problem. This is because you evidenttly think anyone who thinks differently to you, no matter how reasonably yet occasionally making the odd mistake in stating their opinion, is 'stupid'.
hey dude whatever tickles ur pickle, do it proud
Go to any place like 4chan and you'll see how many people are in love with the idea of "used goods" where if a woman has had sex before then you should avoid any relationship with her at all costs. It's pathetic and disgusting.
Are you asexual perhaps?
I always thought it was more than trolling each other because they best know their own fears and insecurities.
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