[TIK] National Socialism WAS Socialism | Rethinking WW2 History
93 replies, posted
For real. It's not like he was unfamiliar with the concept of doing heavy research for his videos either, and then he shits this one out.
It's a shame, really.
Which is a very easy trap to not fall into by educating yourself on the basics of what socialism is in the first place. It's just another part of what gives this video no credence at all.
"But is that really the case?" - but nah, Jordan "Zyklon" B Peterson and the like are the truff.
I still can't get over this shit. I liked this guy so much, and after receiving tons of criticism for his previous video he just doubles down on his completely ignorant points for fuck's sakes.
This is off-topic for this thread but on behalf of all sane Canadians we're sorry about this guy escaping confinement the way Bieber did.
It's obnoxious how much of a forced meme he's been in right-wing Canadian media this year, too. But that just might be my bias registering distaste every time I hear about him colouring things.
A lot of elaborate explanations in this thread, simplest way to put it is that socialism wants to lessen class divide by redistributing wealth to be more equal, whereas national socialism is about controlling the classes so that both the working class and the class that own the companies/corporations/factories etc are equally loyal to the state/government and working towards its nationalist vision.
To a certain extent both ideologies are a form of collectivism and limit personal freedom. But National socialists don't give a shit about redistributing wealth, so they can't be socialists by definition.
You'll laugh, but I've seen Peterson mentioned pretty often in Russian liberal circles* - note, Russian liberals are right-wing. So this retardation knows no bounds or borders, you have nothing to be sorry about.
I'll never stop being amused by parties that call themselves liberal but are conservative.
Like the Liberal Party of Australia, which is a major conservative party.
BTW it seems like TIK himself has contracted the Tudd virus. Somehow.
http://www.wduwant.com/index_uploads/uploads/75dfa75c748a.png
I think it's time for a full-on quarantine.
The next evolutionary step from "I'm not racist, I have black friends!"
Saw that one too, but it seems to have vanished.
Also something interestingin his comment section. He seems to like comments that wank off to him and ignore comments about why his points a rubbish
Big think indeed
I don't get how a place as nice as Canada keeps producing so many wingnuts.
It's because Canadians are too nice to shut them down when they're just baby wingnuts, so they have time to flourish into full-blown Jordan Petersons.
Peterson established a strong international following pretty quickly so he didn't really need to appeal to Canadians specifically that much.
This is kind of what I mean by him being a forced meme in Canadian right-wing media of late. If I hear about Peterson in Canadian media, it's:
the National Post sucking his dick which they've taken to doing on a periodic basis
left-leaning publications publishing opinion columns complaining about him, because of his increased visibility, that range from competent reasonable criticisms to far-left screeching
news reports about his live shows stirring controversy, occasionally with critics arguing he shouldn't be allowed and defenders pointing to freedom of speech -- in other words the same shit he does everywhere else, goes to liberal hotspots and lets his reputation generate controversy and press headlines before he even arrives
He blew up internationally and he's levering the fact that he's controversial at home into doing his marketing work for him, with the Post happily carrying water for him.
But anyway, this thread isn't about Peterson.
I watched a few seconds of this video and he starts off just getting Convervatism and liberalism entirely wrong.
Not only were the actions of Nazi Germany entirely non-socialist, but the Nazi party couldn't even keep it together with their fake socialist rhetoric.
"Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true socialism is not."
Hitler, December 28, 1938
Remember that in this context, the "property" he would be referring to would be private property, which in the context of Marx is generally defined as a privately owned enterprise, so like a factory owned by one person or a company. Socialism is founded on certain principles, one of them is the abolishment of private property, and instead put in place the social or public ownership of it. And he's saying """"true"""" socialism isn't about that. He's saying that "true socialism" does not have one of the founding principles of modern (ie late 19th century onward) socialism.
Canada has many of the same problems that america has albeit on a smaller scale.
Sure looks like he is
Joey just posted this shit because nazis = bad (I agree) and he wants to justify his preconceived notion that socialism = bad as well, that's why videos like this are so popular. They are "interesting" aka make you feel gratified in having your preconceptions validated.
videos like this pop up all the time, make the same bollocks arguments, use mostly the same bollocks sources. another video being made on the subject doesn't make it any more right
Holy shit, clearly he should stick to just the battles. Been watching his videos for a while now, good stuff - until this.
The Nazis we're so socialist they wanted to turn Crimea into a giant resort for the SS elite. A Nazi general wanted to eventually kill all the ukranians and then relocated the entire Danish population to Ukraine solely because he liked Danish people. If socialism was the desire to "Kill everyone and steal their money to redistribute amongst your rich upper class" then the Nazis were very socialist.
Another trademark feature of socialism is when you divide your workforce by gender and ban women from participating in politics and science outright. Nazis were extremely socialist, as we see.
I apologize for posting this, like I said, I originally was just interested in the premise of the video and watched it. Normally, this guy produces high quality content, and hence forth why I didn't bother to check the sources, as I usually would have.
Sorry, once again.
I'm glad you responded with this. I hope you don't take people's negative comments too seriously, you appeared to be following a pattern several awful posters had started but I hope people will see this and know you're not actually like that.
The really humiliating part of this is that socialism is not a very difficult concept to understand. Literally an hour of research on Wikipedia will differentiate socialism from capitalism. He started off with pre-conceived, ill-informed notions of what counts as "socialism" and then didn't even do the research to affirm his own (flawed) understanding. It's like making a video about the relative sizes of countries without researching if Greenland is actually the size of Africa or not. It's like making a video arguing that the M14 is a perfect bolt action hunting rifle that should stay legal, and that the Mk14 EBR is a deadly military grade assault sniper rifle that needs to be banned outright. It's beyond poorly-researched.
TIK seems like a really level-headed dude usually, he even posted a video two weeks ago deriding holocaust denial and other historical revisionism. So where the fuck does this come from?
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/220039/5973ce34-8352-47be-ba0d-ae8c34d96151/tik1.PNG
His comment section is absolutely clogged with people pointing out, in great detail, how absolutely wrong he is. But he just doubles down, exclusively "likes" comments that support his preconceived, poorly-research perspective... I don't get it. Someone who is clearly capable of in-depth research refuses to admit a fairly obvious mistake. TIK fundamentally does not understand the difference between social welfare and socialism. Yes, the Nazis promoted a great deal of social welfare programs - exclusively to white Aryans, and almost exclusively to men. How did they fund these programs? Co-ops? Communal ownership of the means of production? Nationalization of core industries? Land reform? Elimination of the renters/landlords/landed aristocratic gentry capitalists? No - through extreme warmongering. Through corporatization, privatization, monopolization, and endless warfare and violent expansion.
TIK clearly has a very flawed and underdeveloped understanding of political ideology, and he should really stay out of the field in the future. You cannot be a "socialist capitalist." You can be a social liberal, like the Social Democrats across much of Europe (including fucking Scandinavia, they are not socialist), but you cannot be a socialist capitalist. Yes, Nazism supported certain limited social welfare programs, but that does not make them socialist. "Socialization" or revolutionary behavior does not make them socialist. Fascism (including nazism) is anti-liberal, in that it dismisses individual liberties and human rights that serve as the framework of liberal ideology, but fundamentally it is still a capitalist economic mode. A wildly authoritarian one, filled with wealth/income inequality and derision for a true free market (hence corporate favoritism by government), but still capitalist.
i'm glad you admitted your mistake, that's something i appreciate. thanks for being willing to listen to criticism my dude
This is an odd one for me. TIK seems to be very eager to go into very heavy research, for example his challenging of the common narrative regarding the effects of the Great Purge, eg Mikhail Tukhachevsky's death being seen by a few historians as the main reason for the Red Army's humbling in 1941. TIK is also usually one to listen to criticism regarding his videos on Operations, example his Arnhem and Fort Eben Emael videos were very well researched and criticism was taken well. It seems to me that TIK doesn't know have a clue what he's talking about, and his "challenging the prevailing historical narrative" shtick seems to have transferred over to this video, hence the Jordan Peterson and Alan Brown sources.
This video was exceedingly disappointing as it shattered some of his credibility in my mind due to his lack of research via credible, academic sources for this topic.
To throw a little more flame on this fire, TIK posted a response video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_eQ7weo_ys
/r/ShitWehraboosSay has some great discussion about how fucking wrong TIK is, including dives into his unreliable and piss-poor citations.
The real sad part is he is refusing to back down on his fundamentally wrong understanding of what socialism is. He's dismissing criticisms as communists/postmodernists and not really even engaging in the points they're raising. He's just wrong, but he's steeped far enough in the Jordan Peterson well of "SpOoKy PoStMoDeRnIsT nEo-MaRxIsM" that he won't admit his understanding is flawed. Real sad to see someone so dedicated to researching history just flat-out shit his pants in public and then double-down and start shoveling the shit down his own throat.
I was just thinking about posting links to that discussion, huh. You reading my mind there, isak? Stop that.
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