Seriously I have no idea how everything related to the Resistance ships was nonsense. It's one of the fucking weirdest set of scenes I've ever watched because no one is talking, but also not doing anything, and then stuff just happens
I really enjoyed TLJ, and grew to appreciate it more with subsequent viewings. Not perfect, but I adored everything about Luke, Rey, and Ren, really excited to see how nine turns out.
Also what the hell is the deal with Rose kissing Finn? I actually like Rose, but it's just like, out of nowhere. Every person in the theater went "What the heck?" out loud when it happened
TLJ feels like it was written by a number of separate writers with no communication between them aside from the end where they have to connect everything together.
Skywalkers are known to not handle visions of the future very well
They're not going to have their Strong Female Protagonist™ join a villain who is intentionally modeled after Nazi's and the Alt-Right, though. I'm speaking specifically from Disney's point of view (I personally like Ray and thing she's more nuanced than some people give her credit for) - you can't make the role model of every young female star wars consumer fan go bad, because then they'll cry and not want to buy toys of her anymore. Regardless of the stories filmmakers may try to tell with her, her primary role as a corporate created product is to move merchandise. That is why the RLM crew are correct in their cynicism about any corporate push for diversity - it does not come from a genuine appreciation for the vast array of different types of human beings, but from a desire to make all them spend money. That's why it's often hilariously easy to spot the hypocrisy - Disney, after all, is the same company who covered for an elite employee who sexually harassed women for his entire tenure.
Now, I'm sure people are already raising the objection that Star Wars already used an entire trilogy to tell the story of the downfall of Anakin Skywalker, so there's no reason they can't also have the protagonist of the new trilogy go bad for a time. What you forget is, A, Anakin being the face of the Prequel Era actually started causing some controversy once the Clone Wars TV show came out, because they were marketing a guy who slaughtered children as a heroic role model - and B, George Lucas was solely in charge of the franchise and could do whatever the hell he wanted. I mean, I guarantee you all those racist aliens in the prequels didn't make it in because the marketing team thought they were a great idea!
Disney is in charge now, though, which means shareholders by extension are really pulling the strings. The franchise can't take risks like the ones Lucas did anymore. The entire choice of rehashing Rebels vs Empire, and specifically bringing in the director known best for loving nostalgia and having zero original ideas, was done for reasons of profit alone. That the new trilogy was going to be a rehash was entirely non-negotiable. Doesn't matter that people would have still gone to see a star wars movie no matter how outlandish the premise was - the market research undoubtedly concluded that X wings and Tie fighters fighting over a superweapon would make the most money. And they were 100 percent fucking right - but only in regards to the first movie. They can not pull the same trick twice, but nevertheless they have tried to pull it 4, going on 5 times (and originally even more. A fucking Mos Eisely Space Port movie is a concept only a marketing team could have dreamt up). Disney thought it could milk the nostalga indefinitely - but as the failure of the Han Solo movie proved, people are already getting bored of this shit. People will go see Star Wars 9 because it's the end of the trilogy, but after that, all bets are OFF.
Aaaaaaaahhhh noooo
does nobody remember how Luke broke after trusting Vader and basically got so pissed at him that he was just hitting his saber out if pure anger and no real strategy?
The Skywalkers are fucking angry and Luke ain't perfect. Neither is TLJ, but I don't mind how they handled Luke.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/554/6a72dfac-0ab2-4b2a-9f19-827e86524f2b/rianJ.PNG
This is Rian Johnson's entire directing experience, btw.
Why would you give such a high profile franchise to someone who directed one noteworthy film and a couple of tv episodes?
Not saying he isn't a competent director - but experience with major blockbusters isn't something he really has.
what the fuck, he directed Ozymandias and Fly, yet produced this pile of wank?
To be fair, lack of experience directing blockbusters isn't necessarily evidence that someone can't do the job. The Russo Brothers had a total of two films under their belt before they made The Winter Soldier. One of them was super low budget and limited release, the other was this:
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/205174/d3cb9618-fe46-4768-bbbc-dc6dd8684d64/image.png
Of all the problems mentioned, the Canto Bight sequence is the worst imo. It seems like an obvious idea to me but their wealth should have come from human trafficking instead of war profiteering. Make it personal for Finn, since he was sold to the First Order as a child to become a stormtrooper. Then at the very least that side plot with Rose actually has some emotional connection for the characters instead of just "yay we vandalized some rich people's stuff and set some animals free so I guess dying or going to prison was worth it" I actually like the rest of the movie for the most part but Finn is both under used and inappropriately used throughout the film.
The part where they let the animals loose really baffled me. Do they seriously think those rich assholes won't just have them rounded up by the next day? Then again everything about Finn and Rose's parts don't make any fucking sense.
The one that bothered me most was how did Finn and Rose get back to the Rebel base after their dumb fighters got smashed up? Did the First Order troops just watch them walk the sevral hundred metres to the door? They were injured and limping it must have taken ages. Why didn't the First Order shoot them? Why didn't the AT-AT's shoot them? Hey wait, why didn't the AT-AT's shoot the dumb fighters? Why didn't the AT-AT's shoot the rock around the giant door? Why didn't the First Order blow the base up from orbit?
Oh jeez, when you start to ask questions this film really just falls apart.
The whole subplot around Rose and Finn would have been objectively better if it was Poe and Finn. Not only do they have chemistry straight out the ass that Rose--even for all the effort her actress puts in--doesn't have, and not only does it make somewhat more sense for the two of them to be making so many rash, short-sighted decisions, but it would mean Rian wouldn't be able to include the absolute waste of time the Holdo/Poe mutiny subplot was.
I didn't think it was possible, but you made the Canto Blight scenes seem plausible and tie to the characters. As much as I'm willing to give some moments of TLJ pass, I can't wiggle a reason to work with that casino planet. It's like how do you make 8 minutes of possible character drama with Rose and Finn and not go anywhere? How does "Oooo both sides have their problems so we're not exactly the good guys either ooooo" tie into anything other than their "mysterious code breaker" or how Rose and Finn being there means anything? As much as I like them both Rian Johnson gives them zero material to work with.
Don't forget Rose kissing Finn right the fuck out of nowhere. Like where in the movie did chemistry happen? Does preaching about "War is bad" count for good pillow talk now?
It's allllll in the writing baby
Literally the entire point of the ending of RotJ is Luke Realizing he's becoming his father and stopping. Like. The entire point of that sequence is Luke realizing that while hatred is powerful, it just turns him into another Vader.
Which is why in a moment of weakness he ends up not doing it. Luke isn't a robot, he's human so its understandable that even with everything he had been through he would not want another Vader in the galaxy.
TLJ is a hot mess with too much happening amounting to a whole load of nothing. You can cut out any one of the side stories with little to no consequence...
that's ridiculous, you're telling me he's willing to contemplate murdering his nephew over some bad dreams? the ENTIRE point of his arc in RotJ was that he never gave up on hope for his father or for his friends. And he gets a couple bad visions and skips right to murder rather than maybe talking to the kid because Rian Johnson is an amateur that wrote a garbage script.
Tbh, I thought both the new Star Wars films were dumb so, par for course really. Empire is really where Star Wars peaked, the first prequel had interesting technical achievements with CGI and stuff, and the other two while garbage, at least had some interesting moments, and New Hope was at least interesting for most of it. Really, I think Star Wars is like, a 6/10 franchise as far as the films go, with Empire being an 8 and Hope being a 7.
Episode 3 was up there imo.
Err, this is Star Wars we're talking about. There's probably no such thing as as "just some bad dreams"
Because if it was irredeemably bad they can throw him to the wolves and burn exactly zero bridges because he's just "some guy".
This is why Disney keeps going for these more niche, low-profile directors for their mega-franchises, guys like James Gunn and Taika Waititi. They're not big enough to demand hefty paychecks or say "no" when the executives roll in with their list of things that need to be set up and established in order to tease the next 4 movies. And if it works (like Guardians of the Galaxy did), they get a little indie cred; big ol' corporate Disney putting their faith in the dude who made fucking Slither? Well they must be cooler than I thought!
And then the second something goes wrong, they cut them loose (like they did with Gunn and Rian Johnson) while suffering next to no consequences. Episode 9 and Guardians 3 are gonna do gangbusters regardless of who's at the helm, and Disney knows it. They've stopped caring about quality, which is what they always do when they've had a hot streak of consistently good movies (see the Silver Age/Renaissance Eras of their animated films, and the years of flops and mediocre output that followed each).
I agree almost absolutely about the ending. The film feels like its about to wrap up after the fight in Snoke's Chamber, but then plods along for another forty minutes into another major battle scene (can't have a Star Wars movie without a major land battle!) It was just fucking exhausting to watch.
Frankly they could've cut the whole Crait fight out entirely. Have Rey argue to Kylo that if he's serious about abandoning the old order of things then he doesn't need to waste his time or effort vanquishing an enemy that is, for all intents and purposes, completely defeated. Have Kylo reluctantly concede as a means of making a show of good faith to Rey, and have the First Order just fuck off entirely while the Resistance is scrambling on Crait for the fight they think is coming.
Boom, you end the film with an intriguing hook that Kylo and Rey might be able to come to terms without completely throwing either party to the good/evil side, you subvert expectations by hinting at another Hoth-esque battle without delivering, and you leave the Resistance confused, demoralized, stranded and in dire straits rather than having a happy reunion aboard the Falcon.
There really wasn't any set-up to it whatsoever. It also doesn't help that Finn looks pretty disgusted and pained when she kisses him.
I mean, she does it just as the entire Resistance is about to presumably die a horrible death.
Might want to work on your timing, Rose.
I thought the whole beginning of the movie was absolutely retarded.
They jump in the big bad ship, cool whatever. They tried to do that whole Memphis bell scene where they brought in all the bombers and it was supposed to be a homage to the older B-17 type movies. They had all the guys wearing the oxygen mask and it showed the bottom of the ship with the doors open. So it made sense, it lined up and then they just had the lady flopping around without the oxygen mask I felt was really distracting. I know its a weird thing to get worked up over, but that small little detail was the final straw for me while watching it and that was in the opening scene of the movie. Those little believable details just aren't there.
1). Why the fuck did that fleet not have SWARMS of fighters and smaller ships between the star destroyers to catch anything trying to get closed to it?
1a). Why didn't they deploy all the fighters as soon as they jumped in? They knew they where going to be fighting. Scrambling fighters seems like its important to do.
2). Why did that fleet not have any sort've actual point defense system? That ship was supposed to be huge capital ship and it had no defenses. How come there was no smaller ships there to do that? Don't those big ass ships have any shields or anything?
3). Did that huge Armada not have any firepower what so ever? Why did they need some super weapon on a flag ship to destroy a little transport ship at such close range while they where in orbit of the planet?
3a). How did a little transport ship have that much shield power? How did they just not absolutely steam roll it. If its some capital ship wouldn't they have some ECM or something to prevent the transport from jumping away?
3b). Didn't they put all the shields to the rear? Why didn't they have the other ships flank it? Surely they're faster than a transport.
3c). Why is one ship only running radar? How can a huge ship like that not be able to pick up something warping out, or transports being evacuated.
4). I find it really hard to believe that single bombing run was good enough to take down a single capital ship, but the gigantic weak-point is right on the top for some reason? Not to mention the whole "bombs in space" thing that erupted when the movie first came out.
The whole first part of the movie was just style and not any sense. It didn't feel believable or anything and the Empire just felt comically inept. Seriously what was the point of blowing up that capital ship? Another and bigger one jumps in right after it. The capital ship was already pretty comical in size because the Star Destroyers are already massive ships, and then they one up it right off the back, and then they decide to one up their one up.. Destroying that first capital ship achieved absolutely nothing. It didn't show how big of the threat the Empire was, or how heroic/daring the rebels where. It was just an excuse for some ships and another "Woooah! -look- at how crazy and big it is!" They really should have just had the huge capital ship come in and blow a gigantic chunk out of it and maybe jumped into an asteroid/debris field that forced the Empire to go down in smaller squads to find the ship. It could have been hard to pick up on radar due to the debris or due to it being damaged and coming up like something else possibly. Or even having to crash land the ship in an old mining base in an asteroid field and having to fix up a ship that could get them out of there while hiding in some dark, dank place and also having to go out and fight Imperial search parties. Anything would have been better than the galaxies slowest police chase by that massive Armada following a transport right on the tail.
Also Leia being exploded, decompressed, frozen and thrown through space but to only fly back to the ship like super woman and they somehow get her out and into the ship in a hallway that doesn't have an airlock? I could have been okay with that if she managed to force herself back, and just hand over the amulet before dying. But nah, she lived through the entire rest of the movie. And they also have time to go to a Casino for what, the day that they where gone? The more I watched the movie the more questions I had. [sp]Which is bad because I didn't mind the other two movies and I actually liked Rogue One.[/sp]
Everything was done without any other thought than "this is sooo badass and cool". I never felt like anyone was in danger or there was a real threat. Rose of course didn't die, no one got hurt. You'd never even see shit like what happened with Luke losing his hand anymore.
that "little transport ship" was a three kilometers long carrier-battleship with the shields and engine power to match.
i agree with your other points.
Okay.
I mean, I just watched Plinkette's review too.
To be fair directing what's widely regarded as the best episode of Breaking Bad (it's the one where Hank dies) is a massive achievement, although I've always thought Looper is mediocre.
Just 11 months ago I remember people on this forum were excited for him because JJ Abrams was too safe and sterile. Life comes at you fast.
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