His point about Harry Potter is shit. No, not every object could've been made into a portkey, because Voldemort wouldn't want just any object to be used. He's correct that people pointing that out is stupid, however you can't dismiss every point someone has with, "shut up, that's how a movie is supposed to be."
I think critique has been dumbed down to the point of meaningless. It's why I love Red Letter Media so much; maybe they don't go in-depth on everything, but I feel like I always learn something from their videos. So his real, actual point is how critique has been dumbed down to the point of uselessness. Which is a great point! I would love a video that explores that. However, since he spends more time explaining that characters doing dumb stuff should be forgiven under artistic license, I feel like he's part of the problem he's trying to solve..
Why would Voldemoert want the Tri-Wizard cup to be a port key?
It was highly likely Harry would make it to the end.
If Harry didn't make it to the end it would be trivial to kill the unlucky winner who did.
Placing it at the end of the tournament means Harry will be exhausted when Voldemort catches him.
Turning a common item into a port key drastically increases the chance someone else will touch it.
Voldemort has a proper way of doing things which is why he didn't just kill Harry outright on the multiple chances he had (which is also how you can tell he's desperate later when he drops that and just sends death eaters out to kill Harry at all costs).
Any one who read the books or saw the films would get this withoutit being spelled out for him based on what happens. That being, Harry does indead reach the cup, Cedric is easily killed, and Harry is exhausted when he's in Voldemort's clutches. Almost like writing characters to be intelligent and logical can be used to create dramatic situations in a story if you know what you're fucking doing.
A lot hole hurts the movie when you notice it as you watch the movie I think. If I watched a movie and loved it and then only days later someone pointed out to me an issue I still liked the movie. However defending a movie like The Last Jedi isn't a good example since even while watching it live I was taken out of the movie by how idiotic a lot of the characters actions or plot points were.
it reminds me of the MST3K intro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r31eE77b-9U
This line, mostly.
If you're wondering how he eats and breathes
And other science facts,
Just repeat to yourself "It's just a show,
I should really just relax
Films at the end of the day can be very contrived but that's the nature of storytelling period.
You need to stop thinking like everyone in the film knows he's a main character. To Holdo, he's just some cocky jerk-off who has been reprimanded and is getting in the way, she tells him to piss off and get back in line, problem solved. There is literally no reason for her to tell him the plan other than to stop the events of the film, they aren't friends, he isn't trustworthy, he has no role in the plan and he's wasting her time by getting up in her face. He hasn't done anything that deserves being put in the brig that he hasn't already been punished for at this point in the film either, so that isn't really an option until after he's tried the mutiny.
They sent out a distress beacon to try and get reinforcements from the outer rim but no one responded. Their plan was to hole up in the bunker until help arrived, so no, they didn't know no one was coming until after they got there. Also remember that the exit that they didn't search for was almost completely blocked off by boulders except for small holes that the foxes could fit through. Maybe they did search but didn't find it because there wasn't an exit until Rey got them out, maybe they didn't search because almost everyone was occupied with defending from the army that was bearing down on them, it doesn't matter.
The suicide attack wasn't part of the original plan, that was Holdo learning from Poe that sometimes rash impulsive improvisation is necessary, it's a reflection of Poe learning from Holdo that retreating through the back of the base and living to fight another day is more important than attacking head on and going out with a bang.
Im not thinking of him as a main character, im thinking of him as the sole reason starkiller base was blown up. Any commander would see hes a great asset to the rebellion, and even if he acted like a jackass. What was the downside of telling him. Hes a fucking squadron commander, why wouldn't you let him know what they were planning i meant the brig for if he did panic when she told him the plan.
Then why hole up all in one spot? At this point the enemy fleet was destroyed and they could have split up across the planet to get away. Why hole yourself up into the cave if you knew they knew you were going to be there. Even worse, they lock themselves in and stupidly rely on backup. Why put all your bets on back up showing, why not have a plan B to flee if backup didn't show up. Like they got robots and shit that could probably tell then where an exit is by sensor readings. Why doesn't the base HAVE A FUCKING MAP. Its shit writing, and people just act so stupid or the events that happened are just impossibly stupid.
They might not know he's a main character, but they would know he destroyed starkiller base. They would know he's still a ranking officer and no one left besides the 2 other frigate captains, her and Leia is really above him. The thing is, she has to prove she's trustworthy as well. No one in the crew seemed to have experience with her at command. This isn't just Poe here, but she was cold and closed off to everyone. As the last captain of their attack squadrons, it would be important to consult him regarding risks and plans of action if they get discovered.(Note how she had none?) If this is your last chance at survival, you don't have 1 person make the plan. 1 persons plan is often flawed. A plan with multiple people can often spot most of them.
Since they can apparently FTL small ships away from the fleet at any time and the FO don't care, why not FTL to somewhere that can communicate with their allies and send them coordinates? Why not FTL to somewhere the has fuel for the FTL drives and bring it back? Maybe get a transport ship that can FTL and start evacuating people? Maybe if Holdo hadn't kept everything from Poe, he could've mentioned this to her?
characters doing stupid things isn't a plot hole
a plot hole is when the movie goes from A to C instead of A to B to C
if a character was set up to be smart, then does something stupid it is a plot hole because theyve cut out the part that explains why the character would do something stupid or dangerous
He's portrayed as a calculating villain in Infinity War, I don't recall any scene in that movie that depicts him as outright insane.
Am I the only one that feels like the guy just makes stuff up to talk about it? Like in the start of the video he had a lot of people saying the word plot-holes, so surely he could conjure up some actual examples of the usage
His ship was destroyed by Kylo Ren's assault (a squadron leader without a squadron), he defied Leia's orders and got a bunch of people killed in a shortsighted victory, Leia's last act before being comatose was demoting him, and even when he discovered the plan he saw it as cowardly. (Poe is a cocky, impulsive war hero who would rather die in a blaze of glory rather than preserve the Resistance. Holdo's credentials are stated by Poe: "That's Admiral Holdo? Battle of Chiron Belt Holdo? ...Not what I expected." He says this with a bit of awe implying that she's accomplished some feat of her own in the past. During Poe's mutiny you see Holdo with other Resistance officers, one of whom joins Leia in explaining to Poe about Crait and is at Holdo's side all the time (and also says "Hope this works..." before they leave, implying she's aware of the plan). There's only, like four people siding with Poe and that's because he's "the hero" (given that no one else seems to even acknowledge a power struggle going on...). If anything, the film should have shown more of the characters who conspired with Poe, voicing their thoughts perspectives and foreshadow more that Holdo does in fact have a plan.
Because they can be tracked through FTL. An evacuation effort through FTL would also scatter everyone and they could possibly be tracked and picked off. Finn and Rose's one ship got away because it was one ship while the rest of the fleet was a bigger fish for the First Order to catch. Not only do you scatter your entire resistance force but traveling through FTL to allies could also attract the First Order to your allies.
It has been mentioned, though likely through external material only, that the Infinity Gauntlet in the MCU Earth version can only manipulate what already exists. It can't make new stuff just change what you've got already. So he couldn't just double the resources with that one.
Then I dunno just convert uninhabited planets into usable resources or something?
Besides, movies should be self-contained. You shouldn't have to look at external material to make sense of a plot point.
I was pointing out logical reasons why Voldemort would want it to be a port key. I was answering the question myself to point out how his example in the video is wrong.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
The opening of the movie has him conducting a massacre, so it at least sets up how murderous he is
Although if you wanna get down to it the real reason is that they wanted to take the plot of Infinity Gauntlet but also make Thanos sympathetic
You don't have to be insane to conduct murder. Besides, it's consistent with his internal logic.
You mean destroyed the dreadnought that would've absolutely destroyed the entire fleet after the first jump. Fleet killer wasn't just a cute mocking nickname.
I mean this is 100% a lie. He finds out the plan after waking up in the transports after they've fled the Raddus. Leia tells him the full thing, and he literally says that it could work.(Before Del Toro betrays them) The only thing he discovers before that is that the transports are being fueled and he assumes they're just doing a general abandon ship. Which would likely get them all killed.
Holdo's credentials are stated by Poe: "That's Admiral Holdo? Battle of Chiron Belt Holdo? ...Not what I expected." He says this with a bit of awe implying that she's accomplished some feat of her own in the past.
And that doesn't translate into leadership ability, nor negate what Poe's accomplished. She doesn't do anything to demonstrate the former. There should've been something. Anything. All we're given is a new character that acts mean to the crew for no discernible reason. Poe is still an officer with a vast amount of combat experience with the Order to tap even if you don't want him to implement any of your plan. Keeping your officers in the dark when the odds are grim is 100% the path to a mutiny. Seriously that picard comparison was spot on. They even have an episode where they test how far the crew will follow orders based solely off of the rapport he's built with the crew. And another where they replace him with a stern captain like Holdo, and he still relies on Rikers input after he demotes him for disagreeing with orders.
If anything, the film should have shown more of the characters who conspired with Poe, voicing their thoughts perspectives and foreshadow more that Holdo does in fact have a plan.
Agreed here. For all the people there, surprisingly little communication happens.
Don't go to the allies, go to communication arrays, like what they were doing with Crait. The endgoal was to get a message out and wait for help.(Which apparently they're able to do regardless since Maz is contactable.) They still could've also gotten fuel which buys them more time for those reinforcements.
Speaking of scattering the fleet. The fact the FO is so incredibly incompetent really detracts from their threat as well. Not just the yo mama jokes at the beginning, but not scrambling fighters as well? Claiming the star destroyers can't support their fighters when the fighters have disabled the fighter bay and bridge and are uncontested in tearing the capital ships apart. Or not jumping several destroyers into the path of the retreating resistance and pincering them. Why bring captured prisoners to the hangar bay where all your ships and assault vehicles are? Or declining to fire on the crashed saltcraft when its clear there are survivors and watching Finn drag an unconscious Rose several km back to the base.(Though I do wonder if Rose actually is a FO spy, given her behavior) How did they even get as far as they have with this level of incompetence? I'm surprised starkiller base didn't just explode instead of firing because they were too stupid to figure it out.
I love how this dude complains about people misusing the term 'plot hole' and then uses a definition that is only half of what a plot hole is. It's not just internal contradictions, it's also an unexplained lapse of logic. Or does he actually address that at some point too? I couldn't last 2 minutes because his editing is some of the most obnoxious around.
At the cost of an entire bombing squadron and they didn't know they could be tracked through FTL.
Negative. He sees part of the plan and assumes Holdo is fleeing. Again, he fails to see the bigger picture and would rather sacrifice more lives than preserve what little they have left. In the military we say "before you can lead, you need to learn how to follow."
No one says it negate's Poe's accomplishments, but she even states she's dealt with people like him before and that his skills are not needed at the moment (again, he's a pilot without a fighter or a squadron). I agree that Holdo should have had more establishment (and perhaps been introduced in the first film) and it is yet another aspect that shows Disney's lack of foresight (or unwillingness to kill Leia before life found a way). Even then, she's Leia's successor and "talked mean to" only Poe because --again -- he's a cocky flyboy who would rather have sweeping acts of heroics rather than --again --preserving the crew.
Not just communication. During Poe's mutiny everyone else in the background just minds their own business, lol. As far as we can tell, this whole power struggle comes down to Poe and four others against the rest of the officers. Everyone else is manning their posts and whatnot.
I have never said anything to the contrary because, frankly, I share the same sentiments.
Adam from YourMovieSucks wrote a fucking essay paper as a response to this video, but IMHO his is the most legit response to this piece of trash
"I typed out a big comment in response to this video being posted elsewhere, so I thought I'd just copy and paste that here. Here it is:
I think he kind of misses the point about people acting logically. It's not an issue for someone to act illogically. It's an issue when the illogical and out-of-character decision they make is forced in for no reason other than to enact a plot device. It's not illegitimate to prefer stories that flow in natural ways compared to ones where you can transparently see every single beat in the script. That was my biggest issue with A Quiet Place. The plot device conflict came at the expense of the characters. They weren't real people anymore. They were just props to force more conflict into the story with every action they made. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to point out.
What's really weird is that he's coming at this from a really elitist angle. I'm not sure what he thinks of my channel (although a few commenters seem to think I fall under the category of what he's criticizing), but I'm constantly making sure to communicate that even though I'm mentioning parts of the film that bother me, those same aspects might not bother other people. I always make sure to communicate that everyone has their threshold for what they're willing to accept and that not everyone weighs the same aspects of filmmaking equally. And here this guy is saying that plot holes can't be considered problems with a film and that it's illegitimate criticism to express your thoughts on them when talking about your experience with a film. What? That's basically just gatekeeping at this point. I completely understand his perspective and find it completely legitimate to not be bothered by any logical inconsistencies in a film, but to claim that it's not legitimate whatsoever to consider them as flaws is just elitist nonsense. It's always so weird to me when people try to delegitimize other ways of thinking rather than accept and understand other points of view.
If an aspect of the film winds up making the experience less believable, how is that not a legitimate thing to mention? If a film's writing prevents the characters from being believable, how is that not a legitimate complaint? I'd be interested to see what exactly this guy considers to be a legitimate flaw, because anyone could easily use the same logic against him for that. By his logic, you could make the same arguments he's making for literally any complaint about any art whatsoever. By his logic, there is no such thing as legitimate criticism.
Anyway, excuse my little rant here. It's just always so frustrating when people try to claim that you shouldn't talk about certain aspects of your experience watching the film. Like, it's my experience. If there's something I want to mention about it, I'll mention it. I mention every aspect of filmmaking that stands out to me. Lighting, shot composition, soundtrack, acting, production design, special effects, etc. It's stupid to say that you're allowed to have whatever opinions you want on those, but that plot inconsistencies are off-limits for some reason. I make videos expressing my opinions on my experience of the film. I'm not going to start omitting aspects that stuck out to me and affected my experience just because some people decide to look down on any criticisms that don't bother them personally. Get off your high horse.
EDIT: So I continued watching the video and found where he talks about what he considers to be legitimate flaws in Justice League. As expected, his criticisms are just as (if not, more) subjective as any complaint about plot inconsistency. "Many of the central characters are totally static and poorly motivated and they don't learn anything or grow through the story.". So what you're saying is that these characters aren't acting realistic enough for you? What happened when you said that human beings are illogical and imperfect? If unrealistic character actions aren't real criticism, then why are unrealistic character motivations? They go hand-in-hand. Their actions are quite literally driven by their motivations. There are real people in the world with unrealistic motivations just the same as there are real people in the world with unrealistic character actions. By your own logic, your complaints are no less subjective than the ones you're criticizing as illegitimate. You could make the exact same arguments against either of those concepts. There are also plenty of great movies that intentionally avoid conforming to the exact same character growth formula that he's imposing as the "standard" for how a movie has to be. When your premise is that "my criticisms are legitimate, but yours aren't", you're doing nothing but harming creativity. Not every movie has to follow the standard you set for it, and it's incredibly arrogant to imply that your form of criticism is somehow objective.
Here's an idea that is essential to consider about this situation: There are writers and directors out there who put painstaking efforts into their stories to make sure everything is as concise and logical as possible. There are also writers and directors who don't put in those efforts at all. If inconsistencies in plot and character action "don't matter at all", then how can you even appreciate those efforts made by filmmakers who legitimately care? You're not just delegitimizing those who discuss their films. You're delegitimizing the filmmakers themselves. You're saying there's no difference between a lazy script littered with inconsistencies versus a thoroughly researched, laid-out, thoughtful script that made every effort they possibly could to make the story, characters, and universe as consistent and believable as possible. That's just nonsense and it's upsetting that you refuse to see any value whatsoever in filmmakers who put those extra efforts into their work.
I personally don't enjoy Cinema Sins either, because I personally consider it to be completely substanceless and unfunny. It's bottom-of-the-barrel criticism where the goal is to find as many "ding" flaws as possible, often reaching so far as to include ones despite the film very clearly adding those aspects intentionally. If your premise in this video was that going out of your way to find flaws in every single film that exists while ignoring every other aspect of filmmaking is low-effort content, I'd be agreeing with you here. However, your premise is that taking issue with any amount of inconsistencies in any film ever made is illegitimate and I can't agree with you at all on that. You're seriously delegitimizing the filmmakers out there who actually care about those things, and it sets bad precedent to tell people that their efforts shouldn't be appreciated."
bombing squadron < entire fleet
She had every opportunity in the world to correct him. Don't blame someone for seeing
I love | solving
murder | and putting the murderer in jail
and assuming you love murder because you're intentionally hiding the right side when asked what you mean by that.
You don't use his knowledge of bringing the fight against the enemy, you use his knowledge of FO tactics and combat in general. Holdo literally had no fallback to her plan. Just hope the FO doesn't notice the transports. She panicked when the FO started firing on the transports. Poe would've been able to tell her general ranges of fire, where to target to damage the turrets that could reach the transports if they needed to turn raddus's weapons against the FO fleet. As a squadron leader, part of his position was knowing what they were up against and how to exploit it. The movie tries to get the audience to sympathize with her decision but provides no reason to do so.
There are ways of portraying this without making it seem like he was right all along. Destroying the dreadnought saved them all. Withholding the plan nearly gets them all killed. Holdo gives the crew and audience no reason to trust her. And if the moral of his story is to learn to not try to be a hero and trust your superiors, why does Holdo say "I like him" immediately after he attempts mutiny? Apparently if command doesn't like you because you're reckless, you should be more reckless.
If Rian wanted to portray this message, he would need Poe to actually make a wrong move. Have a few more resistance ships and frigates. Keep Leia onboard with Poe's actions until the dreadnaught is destroyed, but have him get greedy and assume the fleet can wipe out the other 3 destroyers when Leia tries to call him back. After all he's the big hero that took down an entire planet, 3 destroyers shouldn't be a problem with his squad and the fleet backing them up. However, Snoke's ship and backup arrives and they soon become outgunned and are forced to retreat. They sustain heavy losses with several frigates and squadrons destroyed, and jump away with only the raddus, some of its fighters, and the 2 frigates. Poe is demoted for disobeying orders and prolonging what should've been a quick hit and run to destroy a major threat. To further drive that point home, have Snoke's ship be the one with the new tracking tech, and he's able to follow the fleet solely because they had stuck around to fight.
Holdo was: mitigating casualties when their numbers are already slim, avoiding Pyrrhic victories, and avoiding further unnecessary casualties. Yeah, Poe took out a dreadnought, but at a high price. If the Empire or First Order did what Poe did, it would be indicative of their callousness towards the lives of their personnel.
She knew to keep out of range of their cannons, she knew the fighters would have no support at that distance, she knew they were not scanning for lifeboats (for some reason, albeit), and the First Order (and by extension the audience) is lead to believe that "It's just a matter of time" (Hux), before the Resistance is done for. Holdo had the information she needed and understood the situation and that it required patience (which Poe lacks).Things only went awry when Finn and Rose trusted someone who should clearly not be trusted (while carrying out Poe's plan, mind you). She didn't "panic," she improvised using a desperate tactic to deal a heavy blow sacrificing her own life instead of the lives of many others (something Finn was going to do at the end until Rose's ass showed up). Her plan is just as sound as Poe's to infiltrate Snoke's ship with a code breaker, except with a greater chance of success and less obstacles .
Again, destroying the dreadnought came at a heavy price which Leia chides him and demotes him for:
Poe: "We took down a dreadnought!"
Leia: "At what cost?"
Poe: "You start an attack, you follow it through."
Leia: "Poe, get your head out of your cockpit. There are things you cannot solve by jumping in an X-Wing and blowing stuff up. I need you to learn that."
Poe: "There were heroes on that mission."
Leia: "Dead heroes."
Right there Leia sets up Poe's arc in the story. Poe needed to take a step back, think, and plan rather than rush in headlong making martyrs.
I agree that the Holdo/Poe plot amounting to "This one's a troublemaker. I like him." is absolutely dumb and could have been conveyed differently, but the reason for their actions are not as absurd as some people make them out to be. They/you seem to assume that Poe is so quintessential to the Resistance that him being informed of Holdo's strategy could/would have drastically altered events for the better. Take the Poe and Holdo conflict out of the film not only does Poe have nothing to do aboard the ship except consternate Finn and Rose's survival (which is one of my larger gripes with the film in that most of it is spent in a drawn out chase) and Holdo's plan goes off unimpeded (of course, there is the issue --that I have mentioned in the past, as well --as to why the Star Destroyers didn't cut them off, pincer them, swarm them, run scans on lifeboats etc. which also speaks to my gripes about the villain's general incompetence and are legitimate criticisms of the film's writing that I have not found any context to justify).
He did get greedy he disobeyed Leia's orders to fall back to take out a dreadnought when they already had all the personnel evacuated from the base. He was already outgunned. Poe is wrong to think the Resistance can continuously sustain one Pyrrhic victory after another. A single dreadnought at the expense of dozens of bombers, fighters, and personnel is a slim victory in the grand scheme of things when you still have the rest of the First Order's armada and Snoke's flagship. It's literally that simple.
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