(NSFL) Man shot and killed by father-son duo in Abilene Texas - General

Who's victim blaming exactly?

No one is equating guns to baseball bats. The fact remains that baseball bats possess a decently high chance of lethality and for a person to adequately ensure they don't die from being bludgeoned, it's a good idea to have an equalizer such as a gun. This is not saying that guns and baseball bats are the same or have the same probability of killing someone. That's not how self-defense works. In self-defense, you don't try to equally match the other guy's probability of him killing you because if it's something akin to a fist-fight and he's more experienced/bigger/stronger etc. then you will lose 100% of the time. The point of guns for self-defense is to ensure that you have the means of stopping the threat when you have no other possible means to. Additionally, no one is "giving guns" to these people. If they're law-abiding citizens then they have their 2nd amendment rights by default.

While I agree that those fools need their guns taken away from them, they aren't a representation of the average American.

I'd suggest actually reading through this thread before making a comment.

Yeah I didn't read anything I'm just pulling those quotes out of thin air.

In the scenario you described, the best course of action would be to back off and to call the fucking cops, which is what the guy should have done. Not fucking threaten them with a fucking bat, for christ's sake. How is that supposed to be an argument? You'd rather confront them in spite because you think the 2nd amendment is a load of shit? You're the one using galaxy brain logic here, dude.

the devils advocacy going on in this thread is absurd

If you take this situation apart, it's nothing more than a self defense situation that includes dumb people all around, and I think that's what is making people angry at the shooters. I feel that if these people were dressed nicely or spoke with more... articulation(?) people would be taking a different tone. And that's the thing that irks me here, because it's a clear cut case of defensive gun use, but people are undermining or ignoring how legitimate their actions were (both legally and morally) simply because they fit the stereotype of redneck trailer trash. If you deconstruct events and look at it purely objectively, these men were absolutely right in taking steps to protect themselves. I think trailer trash stereotypes are just as justified in defending themselves. Their lives are just as valuable and worth protecting. Yes, they are clearly not the brightest, but with events taking place as they did, they are clearly in the right in terms of protecting themselves.

You don't live in a real world dude. You have no idea what you're talking about. How many fights have you seen when the people fighting decide it was a bad idea to fight and stop throwing punches? What planet does that happen on? And lmao the fat old dude would be dodging and taking hits with a bat for 1-2 minutes? You watch too much anime.

Fuck dude please tell me your arms are okay from making that kind of enormous reach? Seriously? What kind of projection is that that the less violent of the two parties here would come to your house and kill you the next day by walking away? When they could (and did) just shoot him on the spot. Maybe i'm missing something here but think about how much sense that doesn't make.

If a redneck is pointing a shotgun in your face and tells you that he will kill you if you come closer, you don't attempt to charge them with a bat. Call the fucking cops. The outcome of trying to attack them was obvious. This is like jumping off a cliff and blaming the concrete that it was hard.

Wow, you're just a fucking asshole, aren't you.

Good thing people don't usually kill other people in their homes because they didn't "play along with their own made-up brand of self-defense logic". You seem to possess some unnatural foresight if you're absolutely certain they would do this instead of, you know, backing off once the police arrived.

I can't see these guys getting convicted by a jury. They were calm, their intentions were clear, they weren't antagonizing, while the other guy was going nuts and threatening their lives both with a bat and a gun, and in the video he actually hits the father with the bat. Everyone involved aren't exactly a perfect example of good character, but it's pretty clear who the offender was

Humanity was a mistake, lol.

"ILL PUT 9 IN THIS MOTHER FUCKER" "I WILL KILL YOU DEAD" "I'M GONNA KILL YOU" "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK, I'M GONNA FUCKING KILL YOU" "I'LL PUT A BULLET IN YOUR HEAD" "Your a dead man" "You're a bitch I'm gonna kill you too" "You're Dead" "I'm not threating you, FUCK YOU FAGGOT" *Attacks* Awful lot of "the old man should of laid down and took it" going on in this thread.

So you moved from: they realize they are making a mistake "1-2 minutes in-between hits and dodges" to: they will stop once someone "hits the ground". Should I just pretend you didn't shift goalposts or did you expect me not to notice? I don't know how saying that it was completely predicable what is going to happen once he attacks them means that life itself ceases to matter but whatever crazy strawman you want to debunk, you don't need to quote my posts for that, buddy.

Sounds like you're ignoring the fact that they showed up pointing guns at them in front of their children. Sounds like you're also suggesting that someone getting emotional over this context warrants them getting shot in the face in front of his family.

Agree with point #1. Point #2 has nothing to do with the situation. Everyone in this situation was needlessly agitated and had plenty of opportunity to de-escalate, yet the guy with the bat chose to egg them on and begin a physical attack. Do you really think this situation would have ended less violently if guns weren't in the equation?

I don't care if the orange guy did bad in this situation, still no excuse for the armed guys shoot and kill him. Also, wife screaming is creeped me out, it felt like I could sense her desperation. This made me so sad I almost cried, damn...

You can't justify threatening to someone over "Getting emotional" lmao It's a shitty situation all around, the guy shouldn't of thrown the bat and the Millers shouldn't have held up the wife and brother.

Having someone attack you with a baseball bat after telling them multiple times to stay away seems like a pretty good excuse to shoot, actually

Maybe. The two armed guys would surely feel a lot less powerful if they weren't holding guns

Yeah and the guy weilding a bat as a weapon would just be full of sunshine and rainbows This is an ugly situation, no one is in the right, but how the fuck do so many of you not get that a hit to the head with a bat is likely lethal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BexjCAMwUI0 Like, just do some searching for your own sake. There's a reason the Italian mob in New York and New Jersey used them to kill people quite regularly in the 60's and 70's.

You can't justify shooting someone in the face over "He was talking shit"

He wasn't talking shit, he attacked them with a bat after threatening to kill them.

Oh, I didn't know that. Not that I thought the orange guy wasn't doing anything wrong, I just didn't know he had any sort of weapon. I still think someone should have called the cops or something, this is no situation for any civilian to handle

He threw a bat in the general direction of a guy who just opened fire.

As I said in above post, I didn't know that, I just thought that guy was very angry

Hi there, my name is Mike and I'm an American I am the owner of 2 .22LR Rifles given to me by my father, one lever action and the other is semi-auto, a .22LR single action revolver passed down from my Grandfather, and a 16 Gauge Shotgun that was a Christmas gift from my Uncle. I am 23 years old with no criminal record what so ever and at most I'll either shoot at targets in the backyard or go raccoon / squirrel hunting with my brother. I am 23 years old with no criminal record what so ever. When they are not in use they are placed in a locked safe and are never left loaded. Do you genuinely believe that me and the millions of others like me who enjoy our 2nd Amendment, whether it's harmless recreational use or to have the ability to defend yourself if need be, should be relieved of our firearms because of the misuse of those that are not responsible with them?