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reddit is fucking awful. please don't make us give up this amazing forum for that dumpster fire of a site
Garry, I can see you're reasoning for not wanting to manage this anymore.
So please, before you shut this down, just hand control over to someone else; people will keep the forum and you'll won't have to worry about it. Everyone wins.
Did that come out wrong?
damn, the activity this thread got is amazing, I'm pretty sure these few minutes have had more posts than the rest of the rest of the week!
I can see the sarcasm but now is not the time to be fucking about.
Did you ever think that there was nothing to lose by just keeping it afloat and walking away instead of just shutting it down lol, does it always have to be all or nothing
If Facepunch shuts down I and plenty others will lose their only community.
If you do decide it's not worth it anymore, would you be willing to hand it over to someone willing to keep it going? Even if there's a slight rebranding or something in case you don't want the FP name attached.
Also, I don't think you never do anything right with the forums, personally. I've been on board since near the beginning and the forums have been a big part of my time on the internet. Grown with it, feels weird to say, but as a person. I think it's just that most of us that see the complaining just shake our heads and don't bother giving you that other side because we figure it doesn't get to you when people bitch so much about different things. There are a lot of us that are unbelievably thankful to you for giving us our own little corner of the internet for all these years...
So, yeah. Thank you, man. No matter what you decide.
I still go here every day despite the more modern alternatives like Discord communities and Reddit subs. For reddit, I don't feel at home. It doesn't feel like a community, even in the subreddits, because there's no easy way to recognize other posters. Maybe I'm weird but all I see are text replies and not people. It feels so sterile, cold and robotic. Opinions that are not liked get silenced, and the ones that are popular remain popular and circlejerked. Discord is too fast for me to replace a forum since it's not easy to follow a conversation if you're late to the party.
Forums still fill that spot for me. I recognize the posters, I remember what people write and what their opinions are, opinions aren't silenced and are more often discussed (even though it often ends up with shitflinging, but still). Whenever I read a post here, it feels so human? I see folks discussing a wide variety of things under a single forum which you don't see on reddit because you only discuss a specific thing in the subreddit so that's all you see of people. The people posting on reddit could pretty much be robots or monkeys typing on a keyboard and I wouldn't feel any difference. but here, reading a post always makes me feel like I'm reading a post from a fellow human that who I recognize and know in a way. I don't know who they are, but I know what kind of person they might be.
Forums feel much more like a community than all the alternatives and I'm sad that most people don't feel that way anymore.
I'm not sarcastic, it shows that there is a community here. Hell, I didn't even remember half of these users but they suddenely show up once the forum's in threat of shutting down, which shows that we still do have a large community, only it's not super well represented because (and I can only assume) in an effort to promote posting we've created a lot of lurkers.
I totally get where you are coming from. I can see you don't find enjoyment in your posts anymore, I know you weren't visiting all that much even back in '05 through to 8 or 9 (probably the glory days for the forum) and with everyone seemingly doing nothing but bitching with each change I can see why you are getting frustrated.
Thing is it's only really a small number of people that even care talking about changes to the UI. I'm sure I speak for more than myself, as much as I appreciate you making the UI changes and the nice new features we've been getting to keep things relevant but Facepunch has always been so much more than just a forum with nice features. It's got a community that has shaped itself via mods over time, it has a history and alot of friendships and rivalries have happened here. I'd genuinely be pretty sad if this place was shut down.
That said, I don't know how many of us from back in 05-08 there are anymore, seems alot of people drifted and sometimes I wish I could do the same, I've just been here for so long I don't where else I would go man. Reddit has never been for me and there are real communities here, albeit just a bit shrunken.
I get where you are coming from and you really don't owe us anything, you've propped up this community for 13 or 14 years and for that we all owe you a really big debt of gratitude.
I actually shed a tear wtf.
A lot of us are just lurking. I've been avoiding posting because I was waiting for newpunch to be more feature rich. But honestly I still visit this place every day. Reddit doesn't do it for me, 4chan only fills a certain type of discussion (if I'm up for it), discord is hit or miss with some of the egotistical fucks you find on there.
At least here there's something that makes sense most of the time, at least for me.
Give control of the forums to someone else. Literally anyone who will actually listen to the users, who even uses it themselves to see what users are saying. You can't just straight up remove something that so many people have used for so long and still use to this day. No offence to Reddit, but it's pretty shit. The response system is garbage and a mess to follow in comparison to the setup we have here. The only thing Reddit even has going for it for me is a subreddit for Ireland, because let's face it there's not enough Irish people on FP for a megathread dedicated to our arsehole of a country. So either learn to listen and take criticism or give it to someone who actually cares. Shutting it down is just a bad move.
Let's be honest though, your changes to the site go heavily against the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Half the changes you make break functions that worked fine for ages. I mean I can't even view my alerts anymore. You just change things all willy nilly without discussing it, without listening to feedback and then you have a tantrum because people get mad. Of course they're going to get mad, you're changing stuff and adding/removing things that nobody asked for. You just said you don't even use the forums much anymore, so why do you even make these changes? They don't even benefit you and they sure as shit don't benefit us.
You can't just walk away from managing a site like this, it still has to be maintained and unless Garry unlinks everything from the Facepunch servers and gives it to someone it's not going to happen. And even if it did go to someone else, who would that be? Who can be trusted with the whole site. No power trips. Be able to afford the hosting. Keep the back and front-end maintained. Handle this community who often freak out over tiny things and cause massive stinks.
There is so much that goes into this that nobody here can handle it and I'm not surprised Garry is starting to be done with it.
you mentioned Reddit being used for long-time discussion, but i honestly never see discussion on one Reddit thread last more than a few days, or a week or so. it's just that first few days of activity, then the thread is essentially gone and done for. forums like Facepunch are entirely different because they don't suffer from that (at least in the way Reddit does).
with something like a megathread, topics come and go but ultimately a thread can stay alive for months at a time, with a solid sense of community thanks to regular users. even with frequent users of a subreddit, there isn't much sense of community to Reddit, at least to me - the avatars, backgrounds, ratings, essentially everything Facepunch has contributes to the sense of familiarity and community that it has, and its something that sites like Reddit could never live up to for me.
i'd hate to see Facepunch go as, even as someone who mainly lurks and doesn't post super often, its become one of the few sites i frequently visit (in this case being multiple times a day), again due to the community it has and the content it delivers.
garry - i'd like to ask that, if you don't know what to do with the forum in its current state, to the point where you want to shut it and its community down - that you consider handing the keys to someone else instead.
there's more than enough people here who are willing to help, you just have to give them a chance.
I don't think facepunch is exactly fond of fanfiction.
Or in some cases (like mine) I still feel like FP has (or should have) higher posting standards. So if I can't think of something detailed or interesting to contribute I tend to just rate and move on.
Also adding my two cents in that this community is irreplaceable for me and many others. If you don't feel a connection to the forum anymore Garry that's ok, but please don't just kill it, hand it off to someone who wants to continue maintaining it.
What the fuck have you done? I go to bed for 3 hours and half of the forum is fucking gone. What the fuck is wrong with you?
That's because Reddit is not and has never been a proper replacement for the traditional forum format. Reddit was not built for discussion, it was built for efficient content sharing (which is why posting links is the default format, not text posts). Its entire system is geared solely toward floating popular content and comments to the top, with comment threads being a gigantic fucking mess for actual discussion. The karma system plays way too big of a role there, and rather than promoting good content submission like it was intended to do, it ends up creating a really bad attention whore culture that doesn't even matter most of the time because like you said, the individual identities are usually a blur there.
On a forum like this, everyone is equal and has an equal say. Discussions flow naturally because posts are chronological, and threads that float to the top are there only because discussion is active there, not because the OP's post is winning a popularity contest.
man I've seen so many oldpunch avatars in this thread that I'm actually kinda happy. I mean, within what's possible considering what we're discussing here but yeah, it's kinda like nostalagia I guess, only it's just from 5 years ago instead of nearly a generation or so. I don't really have much of a story to share that's unique to others so I'll just say that it'd be a damned shame if Facepunch shut down, and even if new forums opened up / a subreddit showed up it'd be a shell of it's former self, much like other communities I've visited in the past that got shutdown (like SLAG, which does have a few members from there here).
And yeah I can understand what you're saying, I did just did in the beginning of newpunch but considering how slow things were to change I just started posting a lot and idk I really like posting in newpunch now for some reason, better than I did in oldpunch, and whether that's because less posters give a higher sense of close-knit family community, or because I've since grown older and (somewhat) grown out of typical teenage angst and anxiety, or even possibly a combination of both, is something I can't quite tell you.
The really only unique thing about me I suppose is that I've been lurking FP since I was like 10-11 years old, an honor shared only by gk99 IIRC.
Please read the last 2 pages.
Facepunch houses a lot of talented people.
I have no doubt that we'll be able to in some way continue the forum independently.
Like I mean, I've been lurking and posting for 11 years, more than a third of my life up until this point. I love this place. I love the discussion, I love the people, I love how I can read a thread and find opinions and discussions that actually show both sides.
I sure as fuck can't find that on reddit or 4chan. Not without it turning into a downvote/upvote fest or some guy spamming pepe variation #1038.
Maybe it lost meaning to you garry, but it never lost meaning to me, and to a lot of others.
I really need to re-learn this. There was a period like between 2016-2017 more or less where I used reddit way, way more than facepunch, and considering there's no rating system there, only a "goodcontent/badcontent" button, I always had to reply if I agreed with something or liked it, even if it didn't really contribute anything to the discussion.
Like, here I could've just clicked agree but instead I wrote a 100 word or so post.
Yeah, seriously, most of amazing works I saw exactly here, on Facepunch.
Especially, HL2 Beta stuff. If whole will shut down, where would I seek for leaks and awesome stuff made by others? :c
Many-a times I've been redirected to forums such as this one only to end up in a thread that was posted years ago. But that doesn't change the fact that I'd still be able to find the answer I am looking for, despite the time that's passed. A lot of older threads, especially regarding coding in lua, still have some degree of information to them, should someone still be asking the same questions today as those that were answered back then. The only exception being if the rules have changed since then.
Nonetheless, I would never assume these forums to not have a purpose on the internet, mainly because of the amount of questions that have been answered in the past, and how people today can still learn from these legacy threads, relay to them, and find the common answer they are looking for.
There are people who've splintered fp off into other communities when subforums and custom forums were removed in the past and were relatively successful in the short term with some still surviving to this day, it's entirely possible that someone would be able to host something extremely similar to fp and it was done before. It's not as much as who runs it but who stays, and almost nobody new would join but its significantly better than just shutting it down.
I can't really make a rational response to any other points yet, but Reddit is not really great for long discussions. They end up pretty short term due to how they sort out topics or comments within a community.
I'm here because facepunch as a forum is really one of the best experiances I get out of using a forum. The relatively large and diverse userbase, with a lot of recognisable faces when you're around for a while are one big part of why I'm happy here.
With users still coming here frequently since '06, you can tell how successful the site is in retaining members.
But I really do understand where you're coming from. You're almost a stranger to the forums these days, only seen as the sole person who has to maintain it, among any of the other projects at FP and at home that actually provide a benefit to your livelyhood.
As a community, we really do appreciate it when you provide a platform for all of us to discuss pretty much anything. We just don't see eye to eye on the direction of the forums. And a large problem with this is if you create a site that nobody wants to use, you've effectively end up just wasting your own time, and people will definitely just end up moving to a different platform.
I guess an example here lies when fpair just got removed. They set up their own forum, and then just moved off to discord because it's a real niche.
But you can't mimic this when you scale it up to an entire community. Many smaller communities have their chatrooms, but they always remain secondary to what is their megathread.
If you end up deciding to pull the plug, know that we're grateful for having had this place while it lasted.
It's been a great online community, and a lot of us have discovered great friends here.
Also, tell us a little bit beforehand.
So that we can archive stuff.
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