This is a thread for discussion about the forums.
Ground Rules and Housekeeping
Be civil and constructive.
Manage your expectations.
I will be updating this post with commonly asked questions. I have added some to begin with based on recent topics
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Previous thread(s); Forum Discussion // Forum Discussion V. "Where's the Forum Discussion thread" // Frequently Asked Questions
Frequently Asked Questions
Are the forums getting deleted / what the fuck happened
Garry expressed his feelings on the current state of the forums; he puts a lot of work into them (he created all this from scratch) but is wondering if it's worth it. Will forums as a communication medium be relevant in 10 years? What do forums do, that reddit and other alternatives don't?
A lot of people gave some really good feedback. One or two people were banned; par for the course really. The forums were condensed by garry at my suggestion, everybody prefers megathreads and we should work to accommodate this and improve it.
In a few months, garry is going to look at the forums again and decide if we should keep them. Help us show garry that we care by posting in Facepunch Appreciation Station. If you don't want to see our community go under, we should get our fingers out and start posting. Get our activity levels up. Let's do some worthwhile shit.
Can we get X subforum back?
No. My hands are tied on this, I have to put all new subforum requests through garry.
Will X bug be fixed?
Probably not any time soon. Development on the forums has halted and garry will look at it next year.
What is going to happen to the forums?
This is make or break. If you want to keep these forums, we all need to make an effort. Be positive about things and push forward. I know it's a big ask, but if we don't do this then we will probably lose the forums. From reading the tail end of the last thread, some of you don't seem to be twigging this. So here it is in plain English;
If you all keep acting like babies and shitposting all over the place the forums are mostly likely going to be closed in a few months' time. Stop biting the hand that feeds you. If you can't deal with that, then you need to either shut up or fuck off.
It's a shame it had to come to this but clearly people aren't comprehending the very precarious position we are in right now
Is there anything in particular you're concerned about? The vast majority of the feedback I've seen has been very positive and constructive.
Who's acting like a baby if you literally have to tell us not to be mean to garry, because he threatens to kill the forums in a fit otherwise.
we all do want to be positive, but that shouldn't come at the cost of feedback and criticism towards the forum and the moderation/administration.
Essentially this for me. Besides a minority of shitters, pretty much everything i've seen posted has been constructive criticism.
The forum structure of Reddit is abysmal if you ask me. Old-school threads are the best.
It's the minority of shitters that are letting us all down. As pointed out in the last thread, there can be hundreds of good constructive posts but if there's shitters and that's what garry sees, he's going to assume we're all shitters. Regardless of anything being right or wrong, that's the reality and the sooner everybody realises this and starts playing the game, the better.
Maybe we should take a harsher stance on banning the bad actors then, if that loud, stupid minority is what's going to bring it all down.
Will forums as a communication medium be relevant in 10 years? What do forums do, that reddit and other alternatives don't?
The forums were condensed by garry at my suggestion, everybody prefers megathreads and we should work to accommodate this and improve it.
Concise long form discussions about specific topics, is what these forums do. With proper moderation they do them a 100 times better than reddit/discord or other platforms. Yes, everyone prefers megathreads for specific topics, ie forum discussion, this videogame, this specific topic etc. But some topics don't fit into megathreads, like videos or news articles, they fair much better when they're in a subforum, dedicated to that form. IE: Sensationalist Headlines, Polidicks, Fast Thread/offtopic, and The videos subforum.
Can we get X subforum back?
No. My hands are tied on this, I have to put all new subforum requests through garry.
Then, could you please put in a request for a videos section, fast threads/offtopic, and while I don't frequent the developer section I believe someone mentioned they need some seperation for model rips/requests
In a few months, garry is going to look at the forums again and decide if we should keep them.
If you don't want to see our community go under, we should get our fingers out and start posting. Get our activity levels up. Let's do some worthwhile shit.
The major forum sections that see the most activity, through either post count, views, or number of threads. Have generally been; General, polidicks, SH, Fast threads, Videos, and the games section +Rust/other support. Now the issue here is that we got too much fit into the General forum, if it contains all of the standard megathreads, new videos, and smaller day to day threads. There will be too much throughput for most threads to stay alive and form discussion. Which in turn will dissuade people from posting new threads and the forum forcibly slows down, and we get less activity.
As for Schindler's Fist? I'm personally not too bother by it being gone, OIFY is not the place for it. I suppose people could migrate those threads into the gold member forums.
Already asked, it's a no.
We really don't. The active threads don't even go off of the front page.
There's always gonna be the 1% that shitposts, and just want to see the forums burn.
But I'm starting to wonder if these threads are even healthy at the moment.
"Let's be constructive"
As we now know, Garry is not currently working on the forums. What we are currently capable of doing is to communicate. Our words may be read by him, or they may not.
However, for now I'm assuming he's not going to be writing down our suggestions, and is more looking at our general "behaviour" and usage of the forums.
So why should we come with constructive criticism at this moment? Surely that's best saved for a time when Garry resumes development, because currently we are coming with a lot of requests, most of which are repeats into the double or triple digits.
Positives of this thread:
Users get a place to vent
Users get a place to communicate with Hezzy during his free time
Users can find the most recent information about the forum
Negatives of this thread:
The thread contains mostly complaints
Users repeat their complaints, as there's no easy way to know what's being addressed and what isn't
Moderators, Hezzy and Garry are exposed to a lot of abuse and negativity from disgruntled forum users seeking a place to vent
At the moment, nothing can really be done about the forum itself, and the moderators are powerless in this regard
Maybe it's better to just have us use the forum in the current state until Garry's made his decision, and in the meanwhile put a stop to anything that exposes Garry and the mod team to unnecessary vitriol.
Not to silence forum users, but more to break the loop of complaints, and the illusion of us actually doing something constructive by arguing about the state of the forums. Time to try something different.
What do you think @Hezzy
What do the rest of you think?
I'm not sure what the ban situation is like, and I hope this doesn't earn me a one-way ticket to the shitbucket, but here goes:
Surely more responsibility rests with Garry to look at the situation and recognize the fact that the folks who are shitposting are a minority?
The bit about being positive feels a lot like 'suck it up and deal with whatever changes are made whether you like them or not'. It doesn't seem like it leaves any room for criticism of any sort, even when, with regards things like the lack of community consultation prior to sweeping changes, the criticism is largely valid.
It's too bad that it has come to this. It's weird, really. After the switch I feel that not much has changed in regards to content and user behaviour. I still enjoy the forums and check it daily, 12 years after registering.
"Regardless of anything being right or wrong, that's the reality"
I am trying my best to guide the forums along what I believe is the right path. We need to show garry this is still a worthwhile place and personal attacks on him are not going to go down well, especially since he has put a lot of effort into creating these forums when he could've been making games.
I'm a bit worried that the vast majority of that positive and constructive feedback is being neglected in favor of the few making a big stink. The tail end of the last thread was an excellent example of this, as you had dozens of posts discussing the removal of certain subforums and the combinations of others, with many great suggestions and a lot of legitimate feedback.
Garry targeted one post among all those that wasn't as helpful and threatened to delete further parts of the forums.
Garry obviously isn't the one we need to get through to here, we need to filter our suggestions and ideas through Hezzy. I get that. I shouldn't be bothered by Garry being a bit of a shit poster. I get that. But you ( @Hezzy ) have been requesting cooperation and positivity for months now and I think at this point, everyone who is going to play ball is currently playing ball. The vast majority of the forum is eager to move on and evolve Newpunch into something else, but we feel like we're being neglected and ignored when the only posts that get attention from the Big G himself are cherrypicked whiners.
As we've seen before, it doesn't really matter if ninety-eight people out of a hundred are totally civil and polite and are have such overflowing hearts that they manage to carefully word everything in a way that can't be construed as negative, the remaining two people will go "LOL GARRY SUX KILL THE FORUMS DO IT I DARE YOU" and Garry will single those ones out and only respond to them. That's kind of the impression I've gotten which makes it difficult to provide meaningful feedback when Garry seems to be intent on driving the narrative that everybody exists to hate him.
It also doesn't help that there seems to be a fine line between "legitimate criticism" and "shitposting" around here, as for a good long while we expressed negativity towards certain changes like the subforum spam in numerous different ways - positivity, shitposting, anger, etc - none of them worked and the delayed result was a change many of us agree is for the worse.
I only really hang around games. Is most of those mean stuff coming from general?
Maybe I'm assuming, but when people were asking about handing over the forums, they meant more tools for Hezzy, and/or some sort of open-source development, not handing over 15 years of posts like garry said in the blog post. There, he mentioned something about development, in technical mumbo jumbo I'm not equipped to understand, but it sounded good? Looking forward to it
Aside from that, legal concerns, I understand, but the first option (giving Hezzy or other FP people more control) would help garry, plain and simple. I've found there's no way of saying this that doesn't sound passive-aggressive, but on his own account, he grew out of these forums and doesn't "get" them anymore. There's absolutely nothing bad with that. All it means is that burdening himself with specifics like rules, subforum demand, and generally dictating what to post, how to post it, and where to post it is going to be, at best, irritating and inefficient, and at worst, stressful enough to be a detriment to his mental health, as well as counter-productive. I just wish he'd understand that he's taking on more tasks than he needs to, and that's not been good for him, or for the forums
I wonder, do any of you think it would be worth it to make some 'semi-hidden' place on the forum to discuss forum changes? I'm using this term kind of seriously, but we could look at it as a 'safe space' for constructive forum discussion.
Okay, look at it this way. Some big update comes and changes everything about the forum. Everyone is shaken out of their trees and comes running to the general thread. Plenty of people join in on discussion about the forum without having been involved prior, and this makes it easier for them to shit all over the place.
My 'solution' to this basically involves making a subfourm like the gold members forum. An "open secret" forum that is incredibly easy to get into if you know what to do, but just hard enough to dissuade people less invested in the overall health of the forum from coming in and making a big stink.
I don't actually know if this sounds silly or unnecessary. Reading it back to myself, it seems it wouldn't be too hard to take discussion onto discord or something similar. But I think to the times Hezzy has tried to hold "roundtables" on discord and other websites that haven't had great attendance. It makes me think that maybe, if there was somewhere onsite where people could discuss forum issues with the air of 'exclusivity', discussion might be taken a bit more seriously. At the very least, it might help filter out the rubbish and make the posters feel like their suggestions are being viewed in a vacuum away from cherry pickable examples of shitposting.
I mean, what do you guys think? Super-unnecessary over thinking, or something to consider?
I'd like to know why Garry said no to the videos subforum coming back, and the separate developer sections.
I regularly visited the videos subforum, now I have to wade through the threads in GD to find the threads people have used a [VIDEO] tag on (since there's no built in tagging system that I can see). Videos won't work in a megathread since there may be multiple videos which people want to discuss, a megathread isn't the place to do that.
Honestly the changes are making me not want to use FP, simply due to how generalised everything is now.
I'm feeling the same way. I think the videos forum was pretty foundational to a lot of our browsing habits. I wouldn't have expected the removal of the videos subforum to affect my browsing habits so much, but it honestly has. I'm checking facepunch less and less throughout the day now, and while I'm not 100% sure, I'm pretty sure it has to do with me no longer coming here to get my internet media fill. It's just too difficult to find the content that was once shared in the videos subforum.
Is there anything in particular Garry would like to see the community do or be more responsive in? Has general activity generally dropped on FP?
the videos forum was quite needed. you can't really do a single megathread for unrelated videos, and single threads for single videos end up cluttering general. it wasa content based subforum with constant activity and purpose, and I hope Garry will have a change of heart in the near future.
I'm sorry, why does it take several months for him to do this? He should be well aware that nobody is happy about Videos section being removed. That's gonna be "a few months" of people being a lot less happy with the forum, for no reason other than Garry wanting to do stupid things for seemingly no reason.
So have you heard anything from the boss about the videos section?
I'd imagine its really simple to just add back inn and a LOT of people would be somewhat more happy about things here.
I'd write a report on the situation of online communities. But exam period starts now.
Sometimes I just enjoy writing, but if I can make a good argument then so be it
I honestly kinda like the way FP is set up right now. I'd only want a videos section and maybe a couple extra forums like seperating development into the old software/modelling/mapping type stuff cause I think those guys got the shaft. I just think we could've had all of this solved months ago if Garry didn't only seem to acknowledge the really negative comments, and just implemented the changes and suggestions people were banging on about for months. Like I get he's got shit to do but before the second big change it really didn't take much effort to find a post that was well thought out and listed a bunch of good suggestions. I don't get why Garry needs to wait months to see if his forum is going to hell or not before he makes a decision. Ofc when you come back months later after doing some wild shit people are going to be pissed.
Idk about anyone else but I'm getting some Rhodesian Bush War vibes where we got all the pride and determination to keep going in the world but the big man is gonna shut us down someday regardless of what we're doing because he doesn't like it. Idk where zimbabwe comes in, maybe thats when JBMod makes a comeback or something and sets up the dickkick forum.
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