I am reasonably certain that the main reason why people spout that sort of stuff is because Fallout 76 is not really worthy of proper criticism because it is akin to dissecting a turd. You appear to be stwarmanning people who are more than self aware of the fact a lot of those things are jokes.
Why are you so adamant on defending a creation that is so fundamentally flawed according to such a massive quantity of people instead of rightfully burying it in order to ensure that Bethesda does not pull this bullshit off again and actually try to be better next time instead of effortlessly exploiting casual gamers because they have no frame of reference while fooling them with hype and preorders?
No one wants to hate the game it kind of asked for it, i'm sure that a lot of people were initially very interested in the possibility of a multiplayer fallout.
Do you honestly think that all of those metacritic reviewers who shat on the game only did it because they wanted to hate it?
Honestly, his post feels invalidated the moment he mentions that everyone that criticize the games do it to "lick Jim Sterling asshole". People criticize the game because is a buggy mess of a mediocre game, not because his favorite YouTuber/Blog/Forum/Review says so.
I still can't believe that people minimize the issues of a $60 game +transactions, this game deserve to be shit on.
My main argument was that in this context spreading the supposed misinformation is irrelevant because the main opinion of the game is still accurate, even considering all of the supposedly dumb and inaccurate jokes that are being posted around as satire.
The post that I replied to inevitably created the impression that the reaction towards the game was unjustified because people are attacking it for the wrong reasons while ignoring the fact that the quantity of people who are displeased with it fully negates this problem.
I highly doubt that every single reviewer consistently targeted the wrong reasons for their criticisms or that every single user applied those false criticisms to express their dislike for the game.
I am not exactly sure why you are angry at me about this.
I don't blame all the bad reviews, its not a Fallout game by any means, its a shoot and look for shit game, that's basically it.
I will however say I am enjoying it because that is what I enjoyed from 4, but like 4 its not a Fallout game.
Instead with 4 where the plot was a watered down mess, 76 has basically no plot other than GET OUT THERE AND DO ALL THE THINGS LMAO.
Its a nice time killer, I'm glad I never paid full price for it though, it doesn't deserve that pricetag for the quality produced, hopefully this gets converted into the next Fallout game and we get something which is a better mix of 3~4's butchered narrative with the online tech they made for 76, drop in co-op is really all we want but actually seeing other players out in the world is great too.
The concept needs more work basically.
The last part was me venting frustration because critics like Jim Sterling (and Jim hismself especially) have a massive following who just parrot whatever they say. The three games I mentioned (Andromeda, Survive, and 76) are all games he was against before they came out and he gave them no time at all before declaring them worst than cancer.
I'm just sick and tired of all conversations about games being reduced to "No, this game bad. You dumb for playing."
Like Genkaz's reply to me. I listed out a ton of problems with the game and he asks me why I'm "so adamant on defending a creation that is so fundamentally flawed according to such a massive quantity of people". What fucking bizarro world do we live in where listing a ton of issues the game has counts as a defence? Then he follows up with "instead of rightfully burying it in order to ensure that Bethesda does not pull this bullshit off again" Which I think is the perfect summation of how people talk about games these days, or rather how they don't
If you even fucking talk about a game you're considered a fanboy. It's no longer enough that people don't like a game, now they have to dictate that no is is allowed to talk about it at all, not even negatively. Could we talk about Mass Effect Andromeda's issues of pacing and weak characters? No because "Hey look, this animation is broken, let me point it out 500 times. Don't talk about the game." Could we talk about Metal Gear Survive's balance issues and how the late game becomes a grind and there wasn't enough content? No because "Not a Kojima game, #FucKonami. Don't talk about this game." Now we have the same thing with Fallout 76 "There's nothing to do, there's less than Fallout 4. Don't talk about this game."
It's fucking infuriating. How can we have any kin of discussion when anyone who doesn't slam these games immediately is considered a fanboy or a defender and any factual information is brushed aside because "No it doesn't matter, look how many people hate this game." As though people aren't fucking idiots who just follow popular trends.
You want to shit on the game, that's fine by me. I just want people to talk about the actual problems these games have and stop attacking people they disagree with.
The last part was me venting frustration because critics like Jim Sterling (and Jim hismself especially) have a massive following who just parrot whatever they say. The three games I mentioned (Andromeda, Survive, and 76) are all games he was against before they came out and he gave them no time at all before declaring them worst than cancer.
Jim Sterling has a lot of dumb opinions and I personally don't think that he is right the 100% of the time, but lets be honest, this game raised a lot of red flags before the launch, like the launcher deleting the game, bugs in the beta, etc.
I'm just sick and tired of all conversations about games being reduced to "No, this game bad. You dumb for playing."
The game has A LOT of flaws, but you are free to enjoy it. I enjoy some "weeb" games that are mediocre, I don't care what people say about them.
If you even fucking talk about a game you're considered a fanboy. It's no longer enough that people don't like a game, now they have to dictate that no one is allowed to talk about it at all, not even negatively. Could we talk about Mass Effect Andromeda's issues of pacing and weak characters? No because "Hey look, this animation is broken, let me point it out 500 times. Don't talk about the game." Could we talk about Metal Gear Survive's balance issues and how the late game becomes a grind and there wasn't enough content? No because "Not a Kojima game, #FucKonami. Don't talk about this game." Now we have the same thing with Fallout 76 "There's nothing to do, there's less than Fallout 4. Don't talk about this game."
There are forums and subreddit about these games, if you want to talk about something specific about characters or mechanics, look there. People are free to talk about what they known about a game, so is undestable that 90% talk about the most public issues.
It's fucking infuriating. How can we have any kind of discussion when anyone who doesn't slam these games immediately is considered a fanboy or a defender and any factual information is brushed aside because "No it doesn't matter, look how many people hate this game." As though people aren't fucking idiots who just follow popular trends.
Again, you basically are grouping everyone as "haters" because criticize this game. I watched the trailers, I watched live streams on Twitch, I read the reviews, I drew my own conclusions: The game is a buggy mess that is an empty shell of a Fallout game. No Youtuber make me think that way, I do it myself. I am not a "fucking idiot" that follows trends, nor is the 90% of the "haters".
You can enjoy the game, nobody stops you, but accept that the game is bad, and accept that people criticize the not because they follow a trend, but because they really think that the game sucks.
I didn't do that at all. I criticised the game. I was saying that just because a lot of people say something doesn't mean that thing is legitimate.
Why are you putting the word haters in quotes? I literally never used that word.
What is subjective opinion?
Except people aren't criticising the game. They're just saying it's shit and attacking anyone who talks about the game for good or bad.
Mass Effect: Andromeda's one saving grace was that it had very fun combat gameplay - far better than the previous entries. My main problem with Andromeda was the facial animation and the fact that the story felt very "designed by committee". There were one or two quests I played in the only 10 hours I played that were genuinely quite thought-provoking, but they were few and far between.
I admit that was a bit subjective of my part calling the game "bad", sorry about that one. I was trying to say is that the game don't worth the 60 dollars. Look Red Dead Redemption 2, that game also is $60 and is a much better product.
Except people aren't criticising the game.
So, tell me, what are they criticising? Bethesda himself? Bethesda deserve the badmouthing, they are not a Indie company, they are one of the most important company of the industry, is inexcusable that they sell this incomplete game.
I despise Jim Sterling. I think he's a pompous hypocrite who makes sure to wet his finger and raise it to make sure he knows which way the wind is blowing before he says anything, only stepping forward as a "Consumer advocate" when the target is easy enough that he can say what everyone else has already said with no risk to himself. For someone who sells himself as a voice of the people, he is roughly as useful as a parachute which is too scared to deploy any further than twenty feet off the ground.
And here he is, ragging on 76. Because, like Andromeda and Survive, it really is that bad.
Jim Sterling has no substance because he never has had substance, he just states the obvious for a few minutes then calls it a day. He isn't where you go to for in-depth anything. But to say there isn't any discussion about these games is absurd, because dissecting deeply flawed games down to the finest nuance to figure out what went wrong is at this point it's own genre.
Here, have a 16 part series about the story of Andromeda:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ua2nDO--I&list=PLiWzMOLohpMnR_74e0sOThdx7rL4jlaqX
Have an almost thirty minute video about the lack of agency for the sake of an easy development cycle in ME3 killed not only itself, but every installment before it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66mPqMZjnpQ
Have an almost thirty minute overview of 76 who's main thrust is to prove that in every facet 76 can and should be another "Breaking point" in the market like Battlefront was with lootboxes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L1UAglcaa0
Have an hour and a half dissection of Fallout 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLJ1gyIzg78
Hell, let's get meta. Have ten hours of someone dissecting an hour long video that last guy made, individually checking the truthfulness of every point made line by line and sentence by sentence by constantly going back to review the game they are both examining for it's merits and demerits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzKasf4_x34&list=PLBBJXQJJavX2t9PW80_xq4zdOLHYbVcm6
There is in-depth discussion about flawed and controversial games. I would go so far to say there is endlessly more for them than there are any given mediocre game, and a good chunk of genuinely good ones. People still talk about Spore today. No Man's Sky has outlived a great deal of it's fellow releases around that time in the minds of the public, and has in fact used that to somewhat turn itself around.
Yes, in this case, it is bad. And yes, at this point and with these particular games, I'm sorry but you are dumb for playing it. But boy oh boy, if you want to know why you're dumb for playing it you can set aside an entire weekend for explanations. Because they're out there, and they want nothing stronger than to let you know.
See everything up to this bit I can get behind. I don't agree with it all, like Skill-Up's review (but I think Skill-Up is just as bad as Sterling) I can't agree with.
But this part is unnecessarily mean for no reason. I'm not dumb for playing Fallout 76 (or any other game), but you're acting like a prick about it. Not saying you are one, but you're definitely acting it.
Jim Sterling is fine. If you think he only says what people want him to say, you probably don't watch him a lot.
I can understand why you'd see it that way, and I in fact went back and edited the wording a bit to not be a complete mirror of the original "You are dumb for playing" statement, but at this point giving money to the likes of Fallout 76 is legitimately a poor long-term decision. The actual unwise part of this is not the actual physical playing of the game, but the exchange of money in order to do so, because you have told them in the only language they care about (money) that you endorse their decisions.
If you found a copy lying on the street and took it home to play -- alongside never paying for any microtransactions within it -- you could have played the game without making a poor choice as long as you did not regret the time spent on it afterwards. Hell, even buying it used would kinda work in that regard as well. But nothing good will come out of telling a company that this is okay. It is acting in a careless or unintelligent manner, which is by definition a stupid act, as hard as we try to avoid directly calling out such terminology nowadays.
its surreal seeing all these mainstream outlets tear this game apart. its like it's awoken everyone's inner NMA member.
Honestly, I don't quite want this game to die miserably. Bethesda has occasionally shown itself capable of listening to criticism, and its status as a live service gives it the opportunity to redeem itself through updates. I've played plenty of games that were novel but garbage to begin with; your Minecrafts, your Warframes, your Terrarias, your Star Wars Galaxies and Fallen Londons and Rain Worlds and Shadowrun Returnses and Garry's Mods. With a lot of love and good use of allll the good points the community has brought out, Fallout 76 can definitely be improved. Maybe it'll even be worth paying $60 for!
Main reason I sometimes find Jim Sterling frustrating is just because I have watched him so much and struggle with his repetitive style of humour sometimes. I have always enjoyed his Let's Plays of shitty Greenlight games, but I just think stuff like his constant cynicism, AAA-game developer voice and formulaic humour can sometimes come across as a bit trite. This is only really because I watched him for about 2.5 years, but I still wish he'd try and evolve his craft a little and become a little less pessimistic. I'm British and it's basically our job to be emotionally repressed and cynical, but it rings a little false with Jim sometimes.
I still watch Jim's content, just FYI.
I'm really, really hoping someone comes up with a way to load all of 76's assets into 4. I'd shell out its current $40 price tag to be able to play a more stable, moddable version of West Virginia.
Shadowrun Returns wasn't a live service, they took the critiques and then produce two fully fledged games afterward that are critically acclaimed.
Star Wars Galaxy died because it didn't listen, and by the time they tried reverting the game was basically thrown in the bin. Warframe and Minecraft grew organically overtime and never sold themselves more than they were.
Garry's Mod, likewise, grew organically and while there are some ups and downs, the game was expanded upon over time but it wasn't garbage when it was released. It wasn't a broken buggy mess o'bullshit filled with lore breaking microtransactions, force fed factions, introduction of new story telling techniques but not providing even the most basic of UI changes to allow you to pause things
The games you have listed aren't even directly comparable.
I strongly recommend reading Raph Koster's postmortem on Star Wars Galaxies. At launch, the game was a MESS; possibly even worse than Fallout 76. It had to grow into the golden age people remember it for. Yes, the other games grew, but they had flawed systems that needed to be fixed over time. If you look at footage of old Warframe and GMod, you can easily see the bad design decisions that needed to be fixed as their devs built upon the game. F76 has a LOT to fix, but that's something Bethesda is well within their power to do so. And if Bethesda has anything close to a brain, they will.
Didn't know the bit about SWG so fair enough.
But you keep using Warframe and Gmod. Gmod started out as a mod, in fact you can still install it today so yeah there were broken systems but they were mainly fixed and also the price point wasn't a full priced game going into it. Same with Warframe which was/is F2P. They didn't ask for nor promise a full 60 dollar price tag and act as if this was a finished product. I can understand some systems being borked or maybe something needing to be changed but their Micro-transaction store is about the smoothest running thing in the entirety of Fallout 76, there is no culture of fixing because they don't have it.
Bethesda's approach has always been let the Modders handle it, and that simply cannot fly here and I suspect, bringing up Andromeda, I wouldn't be surprised if they do a few patches and then as the game continues to tank as many of its core systems are simply not designed nor prepared for what the game actually demands, they're going to drop it.
When the bashing has stopped and the fallout has settled, Bethesda must rebuild
Thank you for being an excellent argument partner and thank you to @Janus Vesta for being one also as well as to the rest of the people in this thread. If I sounded like a jerk ass I did not mean it. I just had a sudden case of a cactus stuck up my ass and decided to counter argue something and it happened to be the situation with this game.
Maybe Bethesda does somehow fix Fallout 76 and it becomes a perfectly decent experience just like Diablo 3 eventually became (to my awareness)
I suppose discussing actual flaws of the game is indeed important and that bad press can be quite undesirable in many situations if it sounds like a broken record, especially if the criticisms are not accurate according to the original post.
@Genkaz HEy, I'm watching the Andromeda critique by Smudboy you posted. This is the most bizarre critique I've ever seen. He never played the game, he's using other people's videos for gameplay and examples, and he's doing it step by step through the story.
It's like the weirdest Let's Play I've ever seen. Thanks for bringing it up.
Sorry wasn't me, was one of the other dudes. Probably @Pennywisе
Oh sorry. I didn't go back to check.
Fallout 76 ACTUALLY managed to get a lower score than Aliens: CM
I am fucking speechless
https://i.imgur.com/omvQIEA.png
I'm personally enjoying the game a lot though I still think Bethesda should get thoroughly shit on for the state in which the game is atm
However I will note it's particularly annoying when people start making shit up and others start eating it up without looking anything up, certain reviews in particular are straight up lying or don't even bother trying to understand whether something is an actual bug or the player being a dimwit and not wanting to even think.
Weapon mods are a prime example, whoever said there's almost no weapon mods has either never scrapped a single weapon and decided to make their "review" before even that stage (which you get to about 25 minutes into the game) or they are so blind they don't see the text showing you unlocked mods after scrapping (and they don't hear the sound either), like come on now, the game has many, many flaws and downright stupid design decisions shoved into it, and by all means it is unacceptable there are base features missing such as fov etc, but people are making so much crap up just to ride the crap train.
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