Evidence that the forum is going down;
just trust bro
big "it just works" vibes
yea but unlike garry he remembers he has a forum more than twice a year
Also this guy is single handedly making a website while being flooded with demands for what features next to include
Why are people still in denial that FP is going to die?
Development is suspended, the forum is riddled with bugs, there are basic features missing, and Garry hasn't just proven but admitted to not actually caring about us. Are your post counts really that important? The join dates?
Knockout isn't bustling with activity yet because FP is still accessible. That doesn't mean we shouldn't all be moving to it in preparation. The ones sitting back and insisting that Facepunch isn't dead yet and they'll move over when the time is right are the reason Knockout hasn't exploded with activity yet. The time is now. There's nothing wrong with posting on this website while the transition happens, but there are so many people who are seemingly in denial about the death of FP or worse, actively angry at Inacio+the mod team for trying to promote Knockout.
That will be the death of our community. Not the discord closing or stickied threads. People in denial that FP is dying, or worse, simply do not care.
Good for him? His good intentions are not related to the fact that trying to hijack the forums was premature and also a complete knee-jerk to the forums going down for a couple of hours.
Also, why are "Alt" accounts being permabanned now? Ive been trying to log in to my original account but it doesn't seem to work via Facebook auth. I made a couple of posts and was permabanned by someone named Taliyah for being an Alt. I've never been permad since I joined in 2007. Sorry for not using the discord but I take my privacy seriously and would rather sort it out here.
Stop pushing this narrative that the forums were 'hijacked' holy shit lol, you can't exactly say that when Garry has left this forum in the hands of the very people you're claiming are hijacking the forum.
We're all in this community together, it would be great if we acted like it
Inacio isn't the sole dev? There are like, 3 other devs
Oh, forgive me, 4 devs in total.
Don't forget me! I gave emotional support!
How about we stop pushing the narrative that "Garry doesn't care" equates to you not being able to continue using this forum the same way it's been used for years. Nothing has changed, you can still make posts, you can still interact with the community regardless of Garry's opinions. This whole thing started when Garry implied keeping the forums up is questionable cost-wise. It wasn't a sealed-deal and it wasn't a declaration of any sort. Some people panicked and decided to take it upon themselves to "exodus" the community to some off-shoot of FP and hope it works out.
That's how communities die. There is literally no incentive for new users to come to KO. People still come to FP because it's been around almost as long as SA. You are guaranteed new users by merit of Facepunch being a brand, a game-dev company. No such incentive exists for KO.
The bottom line is that panicking and "preemptively" migrating to a new off-shoot forum makes no sense and is not helping anyone, and only serves to create confusion and division.
I don't think it's that (most) people are in denial that FP is dying, but rather because it's still up and it's what the community are used to using. KO's work put up so far has been great, it progressed a lot faster than Newpunch's development and completed features that only took a week that took Newpunch a month and I have to give kudos to the effort and work put into it. However, just for the sole reason FP is still up makes it still a huge draw for people to stay because of the simple reason that it's the place where people are most familiar and active.
If I had to compare the situation to something, it's kind of like when a lot of people are living in the same shoddy apartment with barely working plumbing stayed for years, and a hot new shiny complex just opened next door, with everything your current apartment has and even more, with extras like a bidet and a soda machine. But since the current apartment, as crappy as it is, with the landlord not really interested in improving things anytime soon, is still technically up and functional, and it's not being scheduled for demolishing yet, people aren't going to go through the effort of moving their furniture and stuff because the place is still there and works for the most part, despite being objectively inferior.
Convenience, sentimentality and familiarity more or less is still the draw I believe most people are still more active here. Facepunch itself never really had a perfectly functional state, it had flaws during its inception in late 2004, its original overhaul in 2008, and the current Newpunch overhaul around last year(?). So people are just used to the bullshit and flaws because everyone else are, kind of like a community forged through fire and piss.
Once FP really does kick the bucket, I'm more than excited to use KO more actively, but at its current state, it does force me to switch between the two forums, with FP still being the most active due to aforementioned reasons.
I really really liked the idea of the forums eventually becoming both an API maintained by FP and an open-source frontend published on github that people could contribute to, like it was suggested in garry's last post. I wonder if that's still in the "maybe" pile, it sure would mean less exodus, and I'm sure a lot of people would contribute!
IMO question and this is my own curiosity.
What would you rather have. FP with Garry and have literally 0 improvement 0 engagement and be continuously chasing our tails like we have for almost a year.
KOC with 4 devs, infinite amount of time, engagement and a fresh start.
Also never mind the blank code box. Can't rid of it
But we currently have both.
option 3 whats in the box?
Hence why I'm asking would you rather have one or the other
It's important to be proactive about this. Doing it later could very well be too late.
I have experienced a forum going poof before, and in that case there was no alternative.
The community I was part of got fractured that instant.
We, however, now have the incedible luxury of having a well made alternative for when Facepunch does eventually go down.
Inacio & crew of course want people to move over and use the forum software they spent so much time on - but nobody will force you to move over now.
What matters is that you know where you might find the community when FP disappears one day.
Meanwhile Knockout will continue improving until it's the best forum software on this god damn planet.
Isn't that the point of it though?
It's just meant to be replacement to FP if this place ever goes down or become unusable for whatever reason. It's not meant to serve as a complete replacement yet.
Basically, do you want a bunker to assure the continuance of Facepunch or not. I for one am thankful for the KO devs, and if FP goes down I intend to make KO my forum. If FP could stay up forever I don't see any reason I'd ever stop visiting and posting other than simply being too busy. I've been here over a decade, and would frankly feel like I'm missing something if I suddenly were to not have this community. If it happens to go down, KO would hopefully be the next best thing.
My issue with knockout is that the group of users pushing it seem to be doing it out of spite for FP and not out of a genuine interest in preserving its community? Like it's not "in case FP dies" it's like they're looking forward to it happening and are willing to accelerate the process if need be. Like what else am I supposed to think when every rules thread gets unsticked and replaced with a thread that says "FP IS DEAD COME TO KNOCKOUT" because the forum went down for 3 hours? The attitude around it hasn't changed or matured at all since it became obvious that FP isn't just going to get randomly shut down without warning. The whole thing feels really cheap and opportunistic and like it can't function if people don't buy the doomsday narrative.
I don't feel that's true though. If it goes down and Garry just decides 'fuck it, I'm not fixing it this time' then, yeah, it would get 'randomly shut down without warning'.
The point is entirely moot because
It's not like anyone is going to miss a 301 redirect.
The only thing trying to get people to move over at this point in time serves is to fracture what remains. Facepunch is the main attraction still. Knockout will get its time in the spotlight soon enough.
Assuming Garry actually gets around to doing it in any manner that's prompt.
toddposting is old meme
todd forums is NOW
newpunch shows you as "online" if you were logged in for the past 30 minutes. I can also confirm that if you have a window open but otherwise do nothing it'll eventually just count you as logged off and start counting from there:
(hell, writing this post doesn't count as activity):
I never cared to investigate how it worked in oldpunch but I believe it must've been a similar situation? You might be confusing it with "Active Members",which afaik was just the total amount of users going in and out in a day, I think one of the pics I linked has it (displaying 30k), and the last time we got to see that on newpunch, the number was circling 20k IIRC.
So was garry and we systematically gave him shit. If you look at oldpunch->newpunch it's pretty much the same thing. We had an old system that had a lotta flaws and needed changing, but even when newpunch was already somewhat operational people didn't change over. It took garry literally redirecting every single forum to newpunch for people to move over, and even then we lost a bunch of users, even prevalent ones. Unless garry adds a redirect (which I might add he never said publicly), or the mod team literally locks every single thread in the entire forum and nukes every single account, you're not going to get a substantial userbase going if your forum is just "facepunch's continuation", because facepunch exists.
That's all I'm saying on the topic. I think I'm being pretty damn objective and not letting any personal biases get in the way, I've tried to make all of my posts informative and with good backing.
I see how it is
I actually don't mind moving to KO since I made a sick avatar there. I kinda changed my mind in that if overnight we had to use KO I would be fine with it but as it stands now most of the activity is still on FP so I can't make content for KO unless I just want literally nobody to see it or participate in it. So yeah I'm 100% on board with KO but it has too little activity to justify me using it over FP atm.
More cooks, bigger mess?
A lot of things happened pretty fast before we'd sat down and planned how exactly to go about it.
We didn't all necessarily agree with the way things were initially handled, but you can rest assured that no decision has been made out of spite.
Hezzy initially pushed hard for the move, and made some pretty extreme decisions. He probably has the most long-standing love for preserving the community, and maybe didn't realize that not everyone would see his actions the way he saw them.
The first day of the big Knockout push was filled with rash decisions and a ton of internal discussion, trying to establish and agree on how our position on this should really be.
The community didn't like some of the decisions, so we reverted them. But for some, the damage was already done.
I'm not going to try to convince those who were disillusioned to join KOC, that's entirely up to them. But be aware that we discussed all criticism thrown our way, and done what we could to improve.
Any further criticism is also welcome.
there's only one person i saw with the "let's move, everyone, that's it, let's pack it up" attitude, and it was hezzy (don't worry paul simon, i had this post written earlier, i didn't take yours as the 'go sign' to blame him). it was also hezzy's decision to lock the discord afaik, which was weird, considering that the fact garry would have megathreads and sections closed on a whim is literally one of, if not the, most important reasons for moving to knockout in the first place.
everyone else involved with it has been pretty chill, from what i've seen
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