Forum Discussion VIII: Five Stages of Grief Edition

[Dubious]

Qbetex isn't the one who de-modded sosig

It rubs me the wrong way that sosig is easily forgiven for shitposts that could and have gotten people perma'd on facepunch before (when taken seriously).

behind every nasty biting edgepost is usually a kid who's forgotten where the punchline is, I agree and respect that teaching context is better than ex-communicato, I just don't like who's ended up not on facepunch out of this.

[Mr. Hale]

Then that weight should've been applied with a warning/ban back then (though I dont think his posts even warrant that). Now it feels like mods are held to a way too overzealous standard where they can be punished for actions that they did long before becoming one. If you're gonna go full retroactive it'd mean bestanimever and half the current modteam should be demodded for being shitposters years ago even though they're all good mods and understand as a mod they cant behave like that anymore.

[gfelt]

it's like tudd for mod 2.0, except they're only brave enough to say their shitty opinions on discord apparently

if tudd was just like "i was just joking guys lol you really thought i was being serious?" you obviously wouldn't even have a second thought about thinking it's bs

[Inacio あそばせ]

but tudd has never brought in any positive contributions to the community

[Raidyr]

Sosig is nowhere near Tudd. Even if we assume Sosig is lying and believes everything he said wholeheartedly (which I doubt, but for the sake of argument) his sole existence on FP wasn't to spread far-right propaganda and instill a sense of fear and division regarding topics like Mexican immigration in America or Muslim immigration in Europe. Sosigs political comments are 5% of what he does, if that. Tudds sole existence was to A) spread propaganda and B) trigger the libs.

[Mr. Hale]

Tudd went on record on Facepunch itself saying these are the opinions he truly believes in many times. Sosig was asked once about this here on facepunch and he said:
As a note I would like to say that I do not hold any extremist views similar to Tudd etc

I have no reason to doubt this and believe his out-of-context shitposts instead.

[PacificV2]

The people who keep comparing sosig to tudd have some serious issues if they can't distinguish between someone who was picked due to their work on community service and someone who trolled people for laffs.

I'm gonna also play the old card and say that mods have historically said some really shitty, inappropriate and offensive things in the past, but those things were usually handled carefully behind the scenes (with the knowledge (or assumption) that people weren't aware of the consequences of their words) and people, as well as the community those people are in, grew up as a result of it - sometimes becoming the very champions of what they were inappropriately prodding back then!

Now, what I really don't like is that people are calling this a "get out of jail free" card. Look at the above post from sosig. Tell me to my face that we're talking about an evil mastermind that just hates specific kinds of people, a person that won't grow from their mistakes, and thus it's necessary for them to not have any sort of administrative position. I'll call you a liar, because you are - nothing here shows that sosig is trying to sweep the issue under the rug, all he's asking for is for a fair hearing. He's been judge, jury and execution'd on the spot without any recourse and without any position to defend himself - and I'd agree with the process if what he did was dastardly terrible (like I dunno, pulling a pr3d), but it's my opinion (and many others' it turns out) that the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

@Hezzy what's done is done, but the community can own up to this situation the same way sosig is, and maybe in the process we get not drive away a helpful member of the forums who's been invested for so long.

[Sosig.exe]

Why can I not give you 5 diamonds?

[Timof2009]

there really is a lot though lol.

Who cares if someone has a different/ awful opinion. As long as it doesn't interfere with their job I'd think it is fine. In my book you just demoted a major contributor to one of the only reasons left to have to forum... Maybe Garry is right in seeing that the forum is more trouble than it is worth.

[CyclonatorZ]

I'll actually put in a word for @Sosig.exe myself. We were having an argument over reconstruction after the civil war and the origins of race and white supremacy, and when I linked to some material from a reputable historian, the dude actually went and bought the book it was from on the spot. Tudd never once came close to ever having a reasonable debate, let alone being willing to further his education as a result of said debate. He was disingenuous from the outset and never stopped being so until he was permabanned. He had no honest intentions whatsoever - unlike Sosig.

[Gmod4ever]

So I want to be clear that what I am about to say is not about the whole Sosig thing in particular, but is just more of a general thought:

If your "shitpost" is also a belief that a sizeable amount of people sincerely hold, then it's not something you should be surprised by when people take it seriously.

When you say things like "England is for the English," you might find that belief absurd. Your friends might know that you find it absurd. You could be the most pro-immigration and pro-cultural-awareness-widening person on the planet. But that doesn't change the fact that "England is for the English" is a belief that is sincerely held by a not-insignificant amount of people, so much so that forms of it have been and possibly even still are being used as campaigning points.

So when the hypothetical super-liberal "you" publicly posts "England is for the English" to uproarious laughter from yourself and your friends, you might not be aware of the genuine racists who see that post, don't know or care who you are or what your politics are, and sincerely agree with the sentiment and rally around you and your post as a beacon for their bigoted beliefs.

Just because you don't mean it, doesn't mean others don't.

Put another way, as the old meme goes, "Those who entertain themselves by playing fools will eventually be surrounded by genuine idiots who think themselves in good company."

Just some food for thought--and of course, as always, this is all simply my opinion on the matter.

[Tenrys]

it would really help if I didn't have to figure out who the hell you were every time I browse this forum, inacio(?)

[Inacio あそばせ]

it is not the name that matters, but the message that i bring

the message being that darling in the franxx is the best anime of the last 20 years and that you should watch it because it is literally flawless

[CaptunNicker]

glad im not the only one wondering who the fuck that was

[Inacio あそばせ]

blame craptasket for starting it

[Alice]

If you have Tampermonkey or an equivalent addon installed, you could create a new script with this code:
// ==UserScript==
// @name         Facepunch: Flagger
// @namespace    Alice
// @version      1.0
// @description  Flags users to mark shitposters or good posters as well as giving nicknames
// @author       Alice
// @include      https://forum.facepunch.com/*
// @grant        none
// ==/UserScript==

const unames = document.querySelectorAll(".postblock"),
      numvotes = document.querySelectorAll(".numvotes"),
      colors = { black: "#ffdddd", white: "#caffd0", back: "#ffffff" },
      lwidth1 = "25%", lwidth2 = "500px";
var amalgamlist = [
    { profile: "cvzd", name: "Garry", whitelist: true },
    { profile: "cvzi", name: "Craptasket" },
    { profile: "cwgj", name: "code_gs" },
    { profile: "jart", name: "Sirius" },
    { profile: "pmmt", name: "Gunfox", },
    { profile: "tzyd", name: "Kiwi" },
    { profile: "vkvp", name: "Inacio" },
];

for (let i = 0; i < unames.length; i++) {
    const prof = unames[i].querySelector(".user-card-header a").href.match(/.+\/u\/(\w+)\/.+/)[1];
    for (let j = 0; j < amalgamlist.length; j++) {
        const user = amalgamlist[j];
        if (user.profile === prof) {
            if (user.blacklist) {
                unames[i].style.background = `linear-gradient(90deg, ${colors.black} 1px,${colors.back} ${lwidth1}, ${colors.back} ${lwidth2})`;
                //unames[i].style.display = "none"; //Removes blacklisted posts altogether
            }
            if (typeof user.name !== "undefined") {
                unames[i].querySelector(".username a").title = `${user.name} (${user.nick || user.name})`;
                unames[i].querySelector(".posterinfo .username a").title = `${user.name} (${user.nick || "No Nickname/Tag"})`;
            }
            if (typeof user.link !== "undefined") {
                unames[i].querySelector(".posterinfo .username a").href = user.link;
            }
            j = amalgamlist.length;
        }
    }
}

for (let i = 0; i < numvotes.length; i++) {
    numvotes[i].addEventListener("click", function() {
        setTimeout(function() {
            const unames2 = document.querySelectorAll(".votedetail div .username");
            for (let i = 0; i < unames2.length; i++) {
                const prof = unames2[i].children[0].href.match(/.+\/u\/(\w+)\/.+/)[1];
                for (let j = 0; j < amalgamlist.length; j++) {
                    const user = amalgamlist[j];
                    if (user.profile === prof) {
                        console.log("Voting List name matched");
                        if (user.blacklist) {
                            unames2[i].style.textShadow = `0 0 2px red, 0 0 2px red, 0 0 2px red, 0 0 2px red, 0 0 2px red`;
                        }
                        if (user.whitelist) {
                            unames2[i].style.textShadow = `0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0, 0 0 2px #caffd0`;
                        }
                        j = amalgamlist.length;
                    }
                }
            }
        }, 1000);
    });
}
You can add others to the list with the following stuff:

{
profile: "profile path",
/*Path to the user's profile. For example my profile is
"https://forum.facepunch.com/u/cymq/Alice/" so my profile's
path would be "cymq"*/
name: "Name that shows up in a tooltip when you hover their username",
nick: "Text for a link",
link: "Link",
blacklist: true, //Make's user's posts have a red background if you're using the Awfully White stylesheet
whitelist: true //Makes user's posts have a sort of mint green background
},
You'd add this into the "var = amalgamlist = []" part of the code. Also the different options there are optional with the exception of the "profile: profile path" bit so if you don't want to use those, they can just be left out.

[The Cheese]

As a passing observer (a.k.a never been on the discord), Sosig doesn't come across as a truely bad guy, just maybe a little bit of a dip.
Hezzy should probably had a quick sit down to say "yo reel it in", but I'm not on the team so hey.

[Hezzy]

I want to preface what I'm about to say with the fact that I believe Sosig did a great job as a Moderator. He was one of the best. Very helpful and always going out of his way to help people. I can't fault him for his performance. He was like this before he was modded, which is why I chose him as a Discord moderator and later promoted him on the forums.

That being said, when Qbetex made me aware of some of the things Sosig had been posting on Discord, I looked into this further and I formed the opinion that Sosig's values are incompatible with being a moderator. We previously had problems with a prior moderator and transphobia which undermined the confidence of a significant portion of the community. I gave this moderator a second chance, which they threw away, hence why I did not want to repeat my earlier mistake. I had a good long think about it and it's not my job to change people's mindsets and values. I could tell them to mask or hide their opinions but that doesn't sit well with me, hence why I removed Sosig as a moderator.

I have since spoken to the moderator team who complained to me that I did not consult them regarding this. I felt that it was my decision; whilst we do utilise collaborative practices, the disciplining and removal of moderators has always been at my discretion and mine alone. I directed the moderators to do their own research so they could see what Sosig had been saying, so they could form their own opinion.

I consulted with the moderators and some FP staff. We held a poll whether or not Sosig should be reinstated. The results are as follows;

https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/99/a279a30e-3ad6-45bb-94c4-44faf41fa33c/Capture.PNG

https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/99/79dc97e1-e30c-49ec-b7ef-a5aa0775a303/Capture2.PNG

As a result, Sosig will be reinstated.

I will also be resigning from my positions on FP and KOC. I wish to focus more on my career. It is also clear that my core values are now at odds with the majority of the moderator team. I will still accept applications for the FP Community Fund (which I believe stands at about £1400 from the top of my head)

Feel free to keep in touch with me;

Steam Community
https://www.instagram.com/hezzy.uk/
https://www.twitch.tv/hezzyuk/
https://twitter.com/hezzy88

[AtomicSans]

...Dang. Talk about end of an era.

I won't try to convince you to stay as I'm sure you've put much thought in and considered all options very carefully, but will you still be posting 'round these parts? I'd miss you.

[JerryAnderson]

I do have one concern. If Hezzy is no longer the Community Manager for FP or the Knockout Community, then who is taking his place? Will Inacio end up being the de-facto leader of FP's remnants at this point? If not him, then who? Someone on the team currently, or someone entirely new and fresh?

[Taliyah]

We've had our differences but in the end. You're still someone I look up to myself. Thanks for everything.

[Devil Traitor]

Who is BestAnimeEver?

[Taliyah]

Postal has Admin ATM. Don't know how much power he has but we can always go to him.

We could hold another election ;)

[The Adjudicator]

Seal your doom and give me admin.

[Timof2009]

I believe we call this a Pyrrhic victory...

[Sosig.exe]

I am very happy with the way things have gone and I greatly appreciate all the kind words.
I respect everyone's vote and no hard feelings are going to be kept for anyone

It is however going to be a great shame to lose Hezzy but we all wish him well for the years to come <3

[Sleeves]

Let's roll the dice again and give a random admin.

I got this.

[megafat]

If Rust can become Admin, anyone can. (No offense Rusty)

[AtomicSans]

vote 4 me

[Paul-Simon]

I just slept through all of this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯