I don't agree that removing the main thing that glued the community together and allowed it to prosper is supposed to be a great plan for future development. The fact that this community was headed by garry, and facepunch as a whole, was the whole point of all of us being here at the start. I feel it's more optimistic to expand on this community's development than expecting the community to transition to another place.
I'll agree though, all this happened due to a threat of a shutdown. If we had some more assurance that the forums wouldn't be closed down and instead opened up to development, KO wouldn't even exist.
Its not exactly a gamble if everyone would just agree that moving to knockout is for the best.
I'm not looking for the community to double in size after knockout, but the unique features and the way we build the new forum - collectively - could at least attract some new and old users alike.
Staying here means that parts of the website remain perpetually buggy and development could never be as fast as it is for knockout.
It's just a better solution, and if Garry confirmed he was pulling the plug people would have less of a reason to want to stay here.
Just a few months ago it was all-but a certainty, in a few months time it might become a certainty again, even with this open source idea.
I don't really find the current iteration of Facepunch to be all that buggy. There are a couple of issues but I can still post just fine. The one issue that I'd want fixed is quoting on mobile, but that's it. I can't think of anything else that I'd be willing to swallow the trade-off of a smaller community for.
If the option was available and multi authentication methods were possible (I haven't looked into this myself) and we could keep it secure and prevent a lot of the security exploits, this would be my opinion too.
However this forums development has gone through hell since the forced switch over. There are many posting exploits and bugs, undeveloped mod features and stability issues that THIS forum system is not worth the development and the extra time needed to match or catch up to Knockout.
Additionally, I've gotten the vibe that people wish to wash their hands and start a new with a clean slate properly. The scars in the community here is real. The history, the controversial issues that have split the forum time and time again cannot be erased if this forum was to continue or even if Facepunch as a community could carry on.
As much as I want another 15 years of FP. A clean slate is worth it. I'm on the shutdown side here. That doesn't mean I won't abandon this place. I'll be here till it dies. If knockout becomes our fate, then it will need all the support and help to keep it up.
I've had to keep this post real because when you put yourself in Garry's shoes, after 15 years, asking this question is the hardest thing to do.
what if I make these forums worse until you move over to knockout
I think a lot of people would disagree that Garry of all people is what glued this community together. I do agree that something would be lost during the transition to knockout, a sense of identity, perhaps, but it's not something that can't be regrown.
My main concern is that as little chance as knockout has to grow past current facepunch, there's no chance for current facepunch to grow at all. There's nothing left to expand, and allowing the community to continue developing the technical aspect is just a knockout situation where we have less control.
At this point, Garry can say the forums will be up forever, and that would be a net negative for me. It would mean people would never move to knockout, and, with Garry's utter disinterest in us, facepunch will continue to go into the decline it's been in for years.
Oh no
just disable letter keys at random when a user wants to make a post, and progressively disable more keys with each post
Look into what the mods can and can't do with the current website. It's too limiting for proper community moderation - not to say the mods aren't doing a great job given what they have.
Again, there's a chance this could be improved on Facepunch. The chance is much greater, and holds a lot more potential, on knockout.
Facepunch is pretty cool and I will have nothing to do at work if I can't lurk here anymore.
This is one thing thats been talked about a lot on Knockout, we are working on an overhaul of the mod tools.
Moving to a new forum would mean we're going in circles.
Facepunch --> Newpunch --> postalpunch --> Knockout!
You won't do it, coward
He's been trying his hardest for a year now
it's already fucked mate, big time
I just want to say, as I hang around this thread arguing for Facepunch to be killed off early, that I never ever wanted to see this day personally. I would have kept posting on a half-working Facepunch until the end of time, shitposting with all you lot until I couldn't anymore. I don't need a fancy new website or the chance for this community to thrive again - I honestly just like the bants and the memories I have.
But, I never thought we'd see something like Knockout developed. As emotional as I get over Facepunch, I get excited over Knockout. It presents a chance for the community to not only continue, but for the mold we've made to be applied to the website we browse as a whole.
Everyone working on that website has done a down-right amazing job. Not only do I not want to see that work go to waste, I want to enjoy that work.
As abrasive as Garry can sometimes be, I'll have the respect I've always had for him for building and fostering this community. I'm not even upset with how he's handling the forums now - the fact we're still posting on them is something I honestly did not expect.
But Knockout is here, and Facepunch has hit a wall. As I said, I'm going to continue shitposting with you guys for as long as I can, but I'm looking forward to the chance of this community to grow and prosper again. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, or maybe I'm too negative about the current facepunch. Point is, I sympathize a lot with those who don't want to let go of this website itself. I just hope to see you over on Knockout if it happens regardless.
this is the most british way i could imagine phrasing this post
Above all, I want to stay in the FP (or KO or whatever the goddamn fuck we finally end up on) community because the moderation policies and overall oldschool forum layout promote the kind of community I want -- disciplined enough to not be an endless shitfest like most forums (looking at you Steam community forums).
If there is a reasonable way that Newpunch can be improved and maintained and KO is consequently redundant, and you're willing to go along with this plan and continue hosting FP, garry, then I'm quite happy to stay in the clubhouse you've generously provided us. If there's no reasonable way to move Newpunch forward without an unreasonable demand on you and you don't want to deal with that burden anymore, then I feel it's quite appropriate to sunset the FP forums and the community can move on to KO.
Whatever the future brings, thank you for hosting and maintaining the forums and fostering a unique Internet community for all these years, garry.
To be honest, the recent days the activity has been so slow and the most lengthy threads end up in massive discussions where either one gets banned or leaves.
Like I try to post a lot just to get a discussion going but there not much to write about anymore.
You're not a moderator so I don't expect you to know this but there are a lot of problems on this forum system.
Several posting exploits exist that can and will end this thread prematurely and prevent people from posting normally.
Unbanning a user normally doesn't work, you have to use a hotfix.
Report weighting(yes this is a thing btw) does not work.
Deleting yourself causes major issues such as threads being gone and ghost pages being left. There are several ghost pages in the last few Forum Discussion threads as an example. It's also leaving quotes behind with your username(BIG OOPS) so this may actually be some trouble. Hot fix btw. Just scramble the username. Like we USED to do on vB.
We cannot edit thread titles. You as a user on vB had 2 minutes to fix the title yourself otherwise it would prevent you. Moderators could do it whenever.
Moderators can't move posts(this was real handy because then we could swap OPs).
Moderator UI sucks.
No fast and quick way to check bans or events on users. You actually have to dive into their profile.
threatening to delete fp and then going silent for months, leaving us not knowing if it's even gonna happen or not, has been more damaging to the community than anything else imo. just get it over and done with.
someone should probably see if archiveteam would be up for archiving this place before it gets shut down for good. there's too much history here to just let it vanish
Just make sure he doesn't get sued for two billion dollars for the wok.
Sounds pretty serious. I can't pretend I know what goes on behind the scenes, so all I can say is I hope you guys are making the right choice.
I've been on facepunch for 14 years, a "clean slate" with Knockout doesn't interest me
I just want a convenient place to look at you wonderful people's opinions
Garry gets his rocks off from the feeling of power he gets from threatening to shut down the forum without actually doing anything, so I doubt that'll happen any time soon. It's all he has left.
i've really valued my time here on Facepunch, and Knockout is looking like a really promising successor. i'm happy staying on Facepunch, but i'm happy to use Knockout too.
garry, if the Facepunch forums are at a point where you just can't keep them up any longer, then i think switching to Knockout is the right move. this forum is essentially on life support as is right now considering how it hasn't had any updates in forever, and Knockout is getting better with each and every update.
i think continuing with your previous plan of opening the forum software to some amount to allow for others to make their own iterations of it would be best, too, if possible. Newpunch is honestly the best-feeling forum i've ever used (even if it has many flaws in its current state) and i'd hate to see the huge amount of work put into it go to waste.
whatever you end up doing, i'm glad the Facepunch community will have somewhere to go regardless. this community's a great little corner of the internet and it'd be awful to see it die.
I have really mixed feelings about this...
On the one hand, I don't want Facepunch to be deleted.
But on the other hand, If this forum is never going to be updated, shit will die no matter what. But I feel so attached to this forum, that it would break my heart if it got deleted. So many damn memories from here.
Knockout looks super promising, but something just feels off. It might just be the fact, I want it to be Facepunch when it's really not. It is it's own separate thing. (I probably just need to adapt to it).
I feel like, whatever we say, it wont matter shit. If garry wants to delete the forum, we can't do shit. It's his forums.
If the site ends up deleted, I personally think, it has been 14 amazing years on this site.
The preference for the community has been for the Facepunch Forums to continue with proper development and communication. I understand that you might not want to continue development on the forums, either personally or by giving the responsibility to somebody else, or the community due to propriety software.
If that's the case, you should endorse Knockout and direct people there.
I think irreparable damage was caused to the community since the announcement of the potential closure of the forums. Everything has been in a state of limbo for the past year or so and the community has been haemorrhaging active and well known posters due to stagnation and an uncertain future
It's been fun while it lasted. I doubt any effort will actually be made to improve the site or fix the damage that's been already done. We pleaded for that plenty in the past already, but it's been made more than clear that garry has had no interest in that or alternative arrangements, and I don't see any indicators for his musings having changed. Instead of begging for him to reconsider the value of the community, I'll try to make peace with the inevitable. This place will either die swiftly because garry finally stops stalling around the decision for forever and just nukes us or slowly because of his neglect and loss of interest.
I hope y'all find a new internet home that suits your needs, whether that be KO or someplace else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nEXJ-CwLDM
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Knockout
