I really don't know how I feel about Knockout. I've called Facepunch my home since 2012. I know Knockout has a lot of love put behind it. And Inacio is having a hard time dealing with making this a reality for all of us. But it just doesn't feel right to me to leave Facepunch. (I also have problems with some of the mods being mods on KO. I don't know how mod oversight will work on KO like if mods will face any consequences for their actions. But, I really don't want to get into that right now) But if Facepunch really does go down for good. I will give knockout a try for awhile. If I don't like the direction it is going in I might just need to make my new home the KO branded discord servers.
Facepunch sucks cock, and I will be happy to watch it die. @garry you're a cunt and it will be truly liberating not having to put up with your bullshit.
Why do some of the people sound like we should improve the whole situation? We, as a normal posters, should improve the communication between the mod team and the community. But improving communication with Garry may be impossible. A lot of changes would need to come from him. And I don't see that happening, considering hiw he has been acting during the video subforum drama and all those "YOU DON'T APPRECIATE ME" bait threads. I'm not confident in him and I don't think he'll step down. And without this change FP could only change marginally, which for most would not be enough.
Again, @garry , if you feel like developing and maintaining this forum has become a serious problem to yourself, mentally wise and all of that - give someone, who you trust, a control over the forum.
The other option is killing the forum, which I know you won't do. This thread was created to spark a drama and get people to tell you, how FP is their life and not to delete all of it. Guess this time it really didn't happen, as we are noe discussing the mod team and some dumbass "KO coup" (my sides).
What would it take to make it something you like?
God I love british humour.
not going to lie, i've found the majority of the new mod appointments since newpunch to be cliquey, immature and stinky, and imo have contributed to the clearly declining userbase and lack of quality on the forums.
thanks for doing knockout, if it's needed, but the way a lot of you conduct yourselves (as this thread so blatantly evidences) and the juvenile 'ingroup' feeling most of you give off just isn't appropriate.
it's not all of you and nothing against any of you personally, i know you're good people.
"Shoved down our throats" , " only lifeboat / only option " pick one and shut up
The biggest problem with KO is that it, ironically, fails at what it sets out to do by stifling any chance at community growth. The root of Facepunch as a community is the fact that it's the community hub for the games made by Facepunch studios. KO misses that fundamental point and thus is going to lose any chance at organic community growth. Between that, and the inevitable fracturing of the community induced by the move in the first place (see Facepunch -> Newpunch), KO is doomed by nature.
Ah yes we've been seeing a lot of that lately.
Dont be asinine, you get my point. Even still, if Garry never does shit with FP Studios ever again, the community will likely die far faster on KO then it would here.
We're not earning anything from the switch to KOC. We just want the best forum possible, and that can only happen if we have the access to shape it into whatever we/the community want.
FP members would for the longest time complain about newpunch, and its eventual stagnation. It feels kind of bad to be rejected when we spent so much time trying to solve all of it.
is that garry's fault then, or the fault of the community for not realizing they can make the effort by themselves in terms of spreading the word, making shoutouts, you know, like how most forums and subreddits get their membership counts from? nothing's going to come out of nothing, so yeah, maybe the forum will fucking die eventually because people couldn't be bothered to have new blood turn up through their own efforts. one person spreading the word to three others, even if you have only 1,000 people aboard, is still 3,000 potential new users. There's no escaping that it'll have to be a community effort to bring in new people and hope they stick around. Increasing forum membership when you dont have clout or an umbrella to gather people under doesnt have any direct solutions besides good old elbow grease.
Facepunch brought in people because of GMod and its social aspects (screenshots, videos, mods, servers), not because facepunch had a ton of games. Rust sold well, and didn't really increase the forum traffic outside of the rust section. I see your point but I disagree with it completely.
The first two sentences of each of your points demonstrate what I'm trying to say. FP's draw was being associated with GMod, and it's literally the reason all of us are here. Even for those that came for some other reason, the fact remains that we likely wouldn't have heard of it without that existing traffic and association with GMod. However nebulous a draw you consider it, the fact that it is a draw, and that KO has none, is a huge knock against the idea of KO doing anything to "grow" the community. At best, all you can hope for it being a platform for the existing community.
If you're saying we need GMod back to revive this community (which is what I was alluding at), then again, I disagree with you.
What I'm saying is that I'm skeptical that KO has any chance to grow like the mods say they're hoping it will.
And I'm positive FP is no longer growing despite the "draw" it has. So what's your point? If we're agreeing the community will die either way, why not move to knockout where the forum is nicer.
Okay? FP flat out won't grow. It's at the end. No more development, no more community growth.
The point of knockout isn't to attract a new community. It is to foster the current one. The chance of the community growing comes from the fact that knockout will be here in a year, and facepunch probably won't.
Because at the very least, the FP community right now is bigger in size than the size of the community that will transfer to KO. There's already a ton of people ITT that say they're outright not interested in moving.
Also, for what it's worth, we don't know what the metrics for user registration have been over time. It's entirely possible that the 'growth' FP is experiencing right now, regardless of how paltry, is more than KO will ever achieve without that name brand recognition.
Slightly larger community < fancy new forum with features catered to the users with active development. I'm 100% willing to lose a few of you in the move.
Then why not just move in a year when that point does come?
We are going around in circles now. People aren't moving because of the reasons we are discussing. If those reasons are non issues, people have no reason to resist moving.
People will still resist moving regardless, which is the real problem with knockout. Not the website itself, but the half-broken community we are trying to get to move over.
Its an internet forum
i was shitposting
Everyone has their own individual reasons for not wanting to move. You're not going to convince everyone to do so. Most of these people have their minds made up already.
...and why not move now rather than in a year? I don't get this train of logic. You're being presented with reasons the site is broken, vulnerable to exploits and on its last legs.
That's why we should move now. Why shouldn't we move now? Because we simply don't have to? Because some people are kicking up a stink without properly considering the benefits?
That's just...lazy. I want to be proactive, get this community onto a website with active development asap, get us out of the risk of the plug suddenly being pulled out of nowhere.
Everyone just wants to...wait until the last minute? For some reason?
Christ on a cracker garry is like the uncle that every once in a while comes home drunk and pisses on the couch, except this time he also hit the neighbors couch. Obviously no one wants facepunch to disappear KO wouldn't have been a thing had THE FATE OF A 15 YEAR OLD FORUM not been left to "meh might delete it definitely don't want to work on it" *hehe smoke bomb*
Given the choice I would much prefer to remain on FP not to say the KO team hasn't done a fantastic job. After this thread though? I just want SOMETHING to be done. FP forums stay and development actually happens? fantastic. the forums stay and you hand off development to someone else? fantastic. The plug gets pulled and we move to KO? less fantastic but i'm thankful to the KO team that we have that option. Whatever happens it needs to happen soon and preferably with uncle garry coming into the house not pissing on the couch and not disappearing like a half rate houdini
Because a lot of people aren't interested in the alternative as is and would rather wait and see if FP can be fixed/maintained in its current form.
It's a problem that I don't think you guys can solve. This forum barely survived one move, and that was from facepunch -> facepunch. It will not survive another.
I think everyone should take a step back and think about the roots of what built Facepunch into the community it is now. Garry's Mod.
This forum was a way for people to share their contraptions and ideas, help each other with coding and mapping, with a bit of general chatter on the side. That is it's roots.
Garry's Mod is far from dead, still ranking ~#13 on the steam charts and people still need help and support for their code and a place to showcase their work.
Sure, you can move all that data over to a 3rd party forum where you have absolutely no control, legally or otherwise, but an official forum is always going to be the best game support.
From what i've been seeing, S&box is making good progress and will likely have a huge following when it launches. Does Facepunch intend to release their new games with no official developer support at all? Just workshop support? Think about the future of the company and your future games. Garry's Mod could never have reached the popularity it gained without this central database of information and support to bring everyone together. Again, sure, you could leave that in the hands of a 3rd party forum directing new players of your game to a unofficial community with no real affiliation to Facepunch but as i have mentioned before in one of these forum conversations, that is not the hallmark of a good reliable company looking out for the player base of a game that is specifically designed to be modified by its players.
The incredible reach a forum of this magnitude provides to the company should be seen as an asset, not a liability.
Knockout is certainly shaping up to be a solid alternative for the community if for some bizarre reason this asset should be squandered and tossed aside, but it would never have the same draw that an officially hosted and supported forum does.
If you are worried about forum development, there have been countless ways discussed on how to lower running costs and how to keep development going.
Ultimately I've been a part of this community, posting or not, for 10+ years of my life and i intend to stay here until i am forced to leave. This is my online home. This is my online family.
If you put this community up for adoption, all can say is i will be sorely disappointed.
Unfortunately that's not an option. We actually have confirmation on this - the backend issues can never be solved.
This is what I can't get passed. Why do people want to stay on something that exists on borrowed time? Even if the front end hacky band-aid solutions help to some extent, we are still under Garry here. That's extremely tenuous.
Understand I'm not confronting you with this question specifically - it's just something I've never seen addressed outside of 'i don't experience the bugs so it's not my issue.'
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Knockout
