Facepunch is dead, there is no question about it and discussing it further is useless. The real question each user has to ask themselves is: do I want to move over to Knockout or not? I, personally, will move there the instant FP goes down. I've been prodding at Knockout for a bit in order to get used to it for quite a while now.
However, there is no doubt that this thread has soured me about the mod team. I honestly really don't know what to say... I limit myself to a handful of subforums - SH, Polidicks, General and Videos - and I don't see the mods much. The few instances I do feel the mods manifesting themselves it's usually negatively - I can't express how mad I was when I found out the only reason Tudd constantly dodged bans was that somebody on the mod team found it funny. But I assumed it was confirmation bias. After all, I have no reason to take note of the acting of the mods unless they're doing something in bad taste, a little bit like the police in the real world: you only hear about the ones shooting people point blank for no reason, not the ones doing their duty day after day with little to no recognition or thanks.
I've seen Inacio on the forums quite a bit so I was ok with him being mods and I think he did a great job on Knockout. I was a little bit disappointed when I heard there would be a mod team carry over as I expected Knockout to be a successor in terms of community, but a blank slate in terms of being a forum (with the possibility of new features, new directions of development, and a new team working both on the forums itself as moderators and on its codebase as devs). I did however understand the decision. If you have a whole mod team just waiting for you to put them to use, there is no reason not to... well, do it!
But after this thread I'm firmly confirmed of the opposite. I don't think there was a "coup", I understand the points of your actions in that sense and I can see how it was a bad idea with good intentions and a terrible execution. It happens. What doesn't happen is the continuous, inadequate way the mods have been acting throughout the threads, and throughout the forum as a whole.
As I said, I'm gonna move to Knockout because it's Facepunch's natural successor, like it or not. But I hope there is going to be a completely new mod team, because I don't trust the current one at all. I'm not sure if Inacio planned to have any kind of power, but, as bitter as it may sound to work on something and then have little control over it, I think he should refrain from using his owner\admin\moderator\whatever he has powers and just be the 'developer guy' for a while until he regains goodwill with the community not as a developer ('cause he's clearly knocking it out of the part in that sense) but as a figurehead.
I understand that picking a completely new mod team will be hard as hell, but I feel like doing anything else will just kill the project. I have the sense that the current mods are a bit too buddy buddy with each other and waaay to used to being 'above the masses', so to speak.
See you guys in a month or three when garry decides to make this exact same thread.
https://youtu.be/1j1-L1fC8nM
holy shit
that's a pretty huge understatement lmao
We don't know what the result will be until the transition happens.
At best, it won't be any better than the transition from oldpunch to newpunch.
You're missing my point. The community was already decimated from the move from the old version of Facepunch to the new version of Facepunch. Expecting a different outcome, let alone a better one, from going to a completely new forum with a new name and ownership is hopelessly optimistic.
It doesn't have to be, though. People keep comparing this to oldpunch - > newpunch, but putting aside the chance that won't happen (those who have stuck around after the newpunch transition are going to be pretty dedicated to this community), what is really the purpose of conserving this post-newpunch-transition community?
Not to shit all over this place, but like, activity is slowing down. Old users are leaving all over the place. Stagnation has set in hard and multiple threads I browse are now utterly dead.
I'm more than willing to take the chance for that to improve, even if by the novelty of a new website for a short time. Before you repeat it once again, 'knockout will be dead because no one will come!', I understand that's the impasse we're all trying to deal with at the moment. It's my hope that people will put aside the stubbornness if it does happen and join, or, even better, begin to realize the benefits knockout presents to the community and agree that ending Facepunch on our terms, not Garrys, is for the best.
Regardless of the outcome, something will have to happen. While I'm all for Facepunch being fixed and Garry waking up and taking good care of it, it's honestly not looking very likely.
For those of you that don't want to move; I get it. But if the move does end up happening, I hope most of you will come to terms with it. It's probably not gonna be as bad as you might think.
And I just joined two years ago
Don't be too down. We're not going anywhere either way this decision swings - you can either enjoy posting here for however much longer, or enjoy knockout when people shift over.
As shitty as all this drama is, hope isn't all lost. A few months ago, we thought Facepunch was at it's legitimate end. Now we have knockout, and Garry at least somewhat conscious of our concerns.
While active public threads of nothing but meta complaining are allowed to exist, all the same problems will happen again.
Really sorry to hear you've stepped down though @Hezzy. You seemed the right combination of aloof, level-headed yet amiable to handle this place. I think your mistake was trying to please the small overactive hypercritical mob (who are unpleasable; you just have to say 'yes' or 'no' then tell them to stop talking) and, I guess, thinking your mod team isn't just one of the cliques?
That's probably not helpful, but I've found it hard to word this post. Anyway, will miss u
KO has solid software and good developers. I don't think anyone here is arguing that point. The problem boils down to how the community is going to survive in the long term.
You're going to lose more then a few of us in the move. Even if 50% of the userbase here migrates over if there is no plan on how to get new users it's going to wither and die out. I'm not saying Facepunch is currently perfect in this regard but it's backed by Facepunch Studios.
"Slightly larger community" could be "massively larger community". There are no statistics about user registration/timeline/posts on knockout.
It would be nice to hear from the mod team on the long term plans and goals of knockout. How is the community going to grow, what steps are being taken to ensure it grows? I've noticed this question has been ignored even with mods replying to my previous posts and it would be nice for the community to have some reassurance that knockout is there for the longhaul.
Rattling my brain as to why it keeps being called a small vocal minority when there's more disagrees on garrys post than recent posts on knockout, is it a coping mechanism or something?
The thing is, from what I understand, Facepunch's days are numbered regardless?
I don't think garry wants to be maintaining Facepunch, and doesn't want pass it off to anyone else, which is a different can of worms I'm not getting in to at the moment - so whichever way you look at it, Knockout or no Knockout, Facepunch as it stands is going to die at some point. Most people will just attach themselves to other communities, subgroups, etc, some will go to Knockout.
But for some, the lightning in the bottle that was Facepunch was sort of already lost on the transfer to Newpunch which was unfortunately necessary due to how god-awful vB was IIRC. There's definitely people who either never moved to Newpunch or left shortly after due to other changes.
I mean, even in the case that garry does decide to pass off the Facepunch forums, you've already got the big thing of the forum would have to be renamed - because I doubt garry would want something that is now officially unaffiliated with Facepunch the company to be called Facepunch. You've then got to think about what will actually bring people to the forum, either new or old.
I'm honestly not a massive fan of how "social media" has evolved to be more short term "check out what i ate!" stuff and less long-term discussions about things, but it does feel like a losing battle. There are less and less "true" forums out there.
As for what this thread was originally about, I think pulling off the band-aid now as opposed to later is ultimately going to be a mistake, and leave more bad will in the air. I don't know.
Apologies if this post seems rambley.
I believe it's already been said in this thread, but the main reason why the forums shutting down (and assuming KO doesn't work out) would be an absolute gunshot to the gut is because I already tried alternatives when the forums were temporarily down.
No Facebook, Twitter or Discord will EVER replace forums.
I've been here for nearly 8 years and I've made some good friends here (hi Jetamo) which I still keep in touch with to this day. It's absence would be something that would take a long time to recover from.
I have zero allegiance to the name of whatever forum I go to. I came here years back because 4chan was toxic and this place seemed chill for talking about TF2. Over the years I've grown to appreciate how tight the rules are which is unlike most other websites. I had fun in Garry's Mod, was not a fan of the genre that Rust is a part of, am looking forward to S&box, and other than that this forum is completely disconnected from the company in my eyes so I have no allegiance to the name.
All I want in a forum is this:
Clear, consistently enforced rules by moderators who follow them. No obvious flaming/racism/shitposting without consequence, unlike 4chan
Enforced etiquette/proper faith arguments, to avoid general internet website shitposting or Facebook-esqe misinformation
Traditional forum layout, not "rise to the top" "bandwagon" or just plain confusing layout shit like Reddit, Tumblr, etc.
A community of active posters with a variety of interests
Knockout seems like a worthy alternative, but the /b/ tier shitposters being mods or owners is concerning. Then again I understand that people are human and make mistakes, but I'd like to think that people would think before they post, or at least apologize if they fuck up or act like a dick. @Inacio あそばせ I appreciate the work you and your team have done on Knockout, don't get me wrong, but if you're going to shitpost maybe not do it in a public forum. Even if you were shitposting in defense or in jest, what you said would have gotten you banned on Knockout if the rules were followed, let alone the slur you used. I think that pisses off people for a good reason as it shows that the mods don't practice what they preach. I really think you should acknowledge that publicly if you want to gain trust back, but who knows, it may blow over.
Ultimately, if Facepunch dies and Knockout or some fully formed forum software becomes the successor, or if Garry decides to keep trucking along with this broken forum, or even if Garry decides to continue development (super unlikely judging from the comments related to the forum software/database), I'm happy.
I'm not happy with this uncertainty. Ambiguity is terrible. Not being clear on intentions, motivations, time tables, plans, etc. is the reason this community is fractured right now.
@garry I think that a forum move is the best options, but it definitely will break up the community. However, there isn't a real alternative to Facepunch, so people will end up coming back if they want this kind of forum. If they don't give a shit and are fine shitposting on 4chan or crawling through the Reddit cesspool then they probably weren't that attached to the site to begin with. If you don't give a shit about the community, which I can understand since it probably doesn't translate into profit, then handing it off is the easiest solution. I think you're a talented developer with great ideas and I bet this whole forum revamp had good intentions, but not every challenge ends in success.
In my mind, the best thing Garry could do would be:
Set an exact date when the forums will shit down, once Knockout is out of Beta. Encourage users to sign up. Explicitly say this is the best way to go and that you approve of it to discourage this "coup" nonsense (ambiguity caused a successor to be made, some shit panicked decisions later without Garry's blessing and now people don't trust the successor)
Mod team carries over, but accountability and transparency need to be increased. If someone's banned or unbanned, we need to know why, and we should have the ability to air our greivances
Mod team follows the rules they set, meaning no shitposting, racism, transphobia, etc.
Move to Steam Community or a proper forum software for Rust or game-related things.
The main thing I'd like to stress is that there's really no site like Facepunch out there right now, so people looking for this kind of experience will get here one way or another. However, Knockout has an uphill battle since they won't be getting Rust kiddies funneled into the forum, so having community interactions is important. The TF2 emporium brought a good amount of people to Facepunch along with all the leaks in MUS. Some genuinely great stuff has been made on these forums that draws people in from elsewhere and gets them to register. Knockout needs some good content to be shared elsewhere if it wants to grow.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to make sure I got my thoughts out in a clear, non-aggressive way, because the thread has gotten quite combative for understandable reasons.
You guys are my only friends what will I do without you
This is awesome. Kinda bittersweet that my first cameo in a video like this happened at Facepunch's end.
this is absolutely fair. i've been avoiding this thread like the plague as to not say even more dumb shit that'll make people get even angrier and also to protect my own mental health, but your post deserves a response.
it took me a very long time to understand just why saying that was unacceptable. i thought he was shitposting too! the context matters! it's not the same as if i meant it! how can it possibly be a bad thing!
after yesterday's events, i was obviously very frustrated, angry, sad, all that good stuff. i asked the mods to explain to me how what i said could possibly be that bad given those same explanations. i literally couldn't understand it, and went as far as to ask them the exact reasons why. understandably frustrated, they gave up.
i took the opportunity to just turn my computer off, drink a cup of tea, and went for a walk to think and calm down. 15 milliseconds later, i realized just how much of an idiot i am. when sosig got demodded just a while ago, it was for literally the same thing. back then, i got angry at him, thought that it was unacceptable, that he should be reeducated or whatever. i was pissed that he could say something like that. and how the heck does he have the audacity to say "guys it was just the context, i was joking"? that's bullshit and, that's no excuse. i don't believe your lame excuses. you fucked u- oh.
i'm a moron for not understanding this sooner. i see now just how bad what i did was, and i regret it. i've individually pmed the mods that seemed to be most affected by my actions and apologized. it really is not okay for me to have said that. i just wish i had realized it sooner. i'm sorry.
I think people here will always appreciate a candid, sincere apology, so thanks for that
It takes a strength to reflect and understand one's missteps. Good for you for apologizing to those you think were most affected and hopefully everyone can move on from this bettered.
You said something similar in the FP Nintendo Discord yesterday, but I just wanted to note that this explanation/apology is very nicely stated. I for one really appreciate your honesty.
Inacio cleverly apologizing for everyone to let their guard down and ignore the fact hat he has been keeping garry in his basement the entire time with the mod team sitting around in balaclava's and ak74's around the house except for Clovis who plays the role of Sam Fisher.
this was a good thread, cool to see fp users come out of the woodwork to talk in here. I’ve got more hope for the future whatever it is
Is this our new life, a constant 6 week cycle of fear?
Atleast it's not /b/.
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Knockout
