[QUOTE=dgg;46402803]
I'm considering mixing them together into one classifcation. We should at least find a new name that narrows them down more because of this very understandable confusion.[/QUOTE]
Hell no, you are not doing that. What you [I]can[/I] do is investigate supernatural shows that walk the line between supernatural and fantasy to decide which genre they belong in and hammer down a strong, universally agreeable definition of supernatural in comparison to fantasy. And I doubt that there's enough of an issue to support reconsidering the definition of supernatural and fantasy anyway, it makes more sense for you to directly discuss the few shows that you think skirts the definition of the category it has been placed in.
If you merge the two all you'll end up as far as the OP goes is Supernatural overwriting all of the Fantasy shows. What people want in a supernatural show and what people want in a fantasy show are usually two entirely different things.
Supernatural by definition mostly means ghosts, vampires/werewolves/whatever and weird fiction. Fantasy can fit in there too but if you want a separate fantasy genre in the OP might as well classify it with those 3.
Supernatural tends to be, most of the time, what happens when you take, well, supernatural elements and have them running around in an otherwise normal and natural world. If the supernatural elements [I]are[/I] the world and there's no "normal" to balance it out, it usually goes full fantasy. Obviously that doesn't apply 100% of the time but that tends to be the general definition.
[editline]4th November 2014[/editline]
Cue somebody telling me that I'm somehow completely off the mark and that's not what supernatural means at all.
[QUOTE=Winner;46402862]it might not be a very good one but it's still undeniably a romance, [sp]the whole point is she wants to use yasuda but then actually falls in love with him[/sp][/QUOTE]
And in no way did I deny it as a romance?'
[QUOTE=Reds;46402897]Hell no, you are not doing that. What you [I]can[/I] do is investigate supernatural shows that walk the line between supernatural and fantasy to decide which genre they belong in and hammer down a strong, universally agreeable definition of supernatural in comparison to fantasy. And I doubt that there's enough of an issue to support reconsidering the definition of supernatural and fantasy anyway, it makes more sense for you to directly discuss the few shows that you think skirts the definition of the category it has been placed in.
If you merge the two all you'll end up as far as the OP goes is Supernatural overwriting all of the Fantasy shows. What people want in a supernatural show and what people want in a fantasy show are usually two entirely different things.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the merge problem, I disagree with not finding a better name that conveys the restriction of the genre more.
[QUOTE=Reds;46402970]Supernatural tends to be, most of the time, what happens when you take, well, supernatural elements and have them running around in an otherwise normal and natural world. If the supernatural elements [I]are[/I] the world and there's no "normal" to balance it out, it usually goes full fantasy. Obviously that doesn't apply 100% of the time but that tends to be the general definition.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's generally how it works, but I think that needs to be pronounced in the classification better. It needs to be more obvious what the difference is between the two in the name itself.
[QUOTE=dgg;46402985]And in no way did I deny it as a romance?[/QUOTE]
Probably in the part where you singled it out because you think it's a shit romance/barely counted as romance and (jokingly) implied that it didn't belong as a vote. There's grounds for interpretation that you genuinely wanted it gone there.
[QUOTE=Reds;46402970]Supernatural tends to be, most of the time, what happens when you take, well, supernatural elements and have them running around in an otherwise normal and natural world. If the supernatural elements [I]are[/I] the world and there's no "normal" to balance it out, it usually goes full fantasy. Obviously that doesn't apply 100% of the time but that tends to be the general definition.
[editline]4th November 2014[/editline]
Cue somebody telling me that I'm somehow completely off the mark and that's not what supernatural means at all.[/QUOTE]
No that's more or less correct, but like you said there's some
leeways. I may have simplified the genre too much :v:
I still think that Mushishi is a fantasy show with the format of a supernatural show. If that makes any sense.
I mean, the titular creatures, while abnormal in the life of the average villager, are no secret or anything and they're technically a normal if uncommon part of life. Everybody knows that supernatural stuff is about even if they rarely encounter it and thus don't really know what the hell is going on or what to do, hence the format of a supernatural show via Ginko being a supernatural doctor.
[QUOTE=Reds;46402995]Probably in the part where you singled it out because you think it's a shit romance/barely counted as romance and (jokingly) implied that it didn't belong as a vote. There's grounds for interpretation that you genuinely wanted it gone there.[/QUOTE]
Of course I think it's a laughable vote for romance. That doesn't mean I think it's an invalid vote for romance.
Why would this suddenly become a problem now? I've already laughed at several votes in different categories without having told them to re-vote, because they are fully valid and personal recommandations.
[QUOTE=dgg;46403019]Of course I think it's a laughable vote for romance. That doesn't mean I think it's an invalid vote for romance.[/QUOTE]
I know, I'm just saying you could have been and were interpreted as thinking it was invalid. You went "you're voting for [I]that[/I]? get outta my face" and got taken seriously, apparently. Honestly you aren't [I]that [/I]confusing half the time. It's usually just when you attempt to argue concepts that everything goes to hell.
Anyway, I'd say don't worry about the definitions of supernatural and fantasy. I think that everybody here generally knows what they're looking for when they vote for either one and you might just be overthinking it or getting down to overall irrelevant semantics.
[QUOTE=dgg;46402803]Fantasy and Supernatural crossover a lot, since Supernatural is a subgenre of fantasy. So it's easy to mix up.
I'm considering mixing them together into one classifcation. We should at least find a new name that narrows them down more because of this very understandable confusion.[/QUOTE]
anidb seems to have almost completely gotten rid of the "supernatural" tag, but moved all of it's subtags under [url=http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2849&reltb=animetb]fantasy[/url].
as it stands now,
[url=http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2647&reltb=animetb]high fantasy[/url] is the current goto standard for our "fantasy" category
[url=http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2649&reltb=animetb]dark fantasy[/url] is typically under our supernatural, although may be "fantasy" due to prevalent magic usage.
[url=http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2648&reltb=animetb]contemporary fantasy[/url] is a blend of both high and dark, and as such tends to creep into both categories at once.
For example,
FMA:B is "contemporary" due to supernatural humunculus, steampunk, and magic circles (among other elements). It could fit into either or both categories, but has a primary focus on "fantasy"
Outbreak company is pretty obviously "high fantasy"; elves, dwarves, magic, etc.
Claymore is "dark fantasy", due to it being just standard knights + mythical beasts. I think i remember there being [i]some[/i] magic, but it's limited to the powers of the beasts?
However "dark fantasy" is a little too broad and can even include series like "Madoka" in it, which is why we call the category "supernatural" because it's broader in a different sense.
[B]Supernatural would include:[/B]
- Zombie/Undead, Demon*, Mermaid*, Vampire, Ghost, dark fantasy*, contemporary fantasy*
[B]Fantasy would include:[/B]
- High Fantasy, Fairies, Dragon, Elf, Goddess, Magic, Demon*, Mermaid*, contemporary fantasy*
[B]Edge cases:[/B]
[U]Demon:[/U] Ritual? Supernatural; Spell? Fantasy
[U]Mermaid:[/U] Horror? Supernatural; Not? Fantasy
[U]Dark Fantasy:[/U] Dependent on how much "magic" it has in it
[U]Contemporary fantasy:[/U] Needs to be determined on a per-case basis dependent on other elements
more can be added if needed
i'm fine with keeping the names as they are, it's just that a lot of the categories have very loose definitions atm.
like i'm not even sure what exactly the "psychological" category currently entails other than "'psychological thriller' without the thriller". or are we supposed to put "psychological thrillers" inside of psychological; so death note would be in that category instead of thriller??
[editline]3rd November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Reds;46402970]Supernatural tends to be, most of the time, what happens when you take, well, supernatural elements and have them running around in an otherwise normal and natural world. If the supernatural elements [I]are[/I] the world and there's no "normal" to balance it out, it usually goes full fantasy. Obviously that doesn't apply 100% of the time but that tends to be the general definition.
[editline]4th November 2014[/editline]
Cue somebody telling me that I'm somehow completely off the mark and that's not what supernatural means at all.[/QUOTE]
you can't use the word "supernatural" to define what "supernatural tends to be" you dunce
[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;46403051]anidb seems to have almost completely gotten rid of the "supernatural" tag, but moved all of it's subtags under [URL="http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2849&reltb=animetb"]fantasy[/URL].
as it stands now,
[URL="http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2647&reltb=animetb"]high fantasy[/URL] is the current goto standard for our "fantasy" category
[URL="http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2649&reltb=animetb"]dark fantasy[/URL] is typically under our supernatural, although may be "fantasy" due to prevalent magic usage.
[URL="http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2648&reltb=animetb"]contemporary fantasy[/URL] is a blend of both high and dark, and as such tends to creep into both categories at once.
For example,
FMA:B is "contemporary" due to supernatural humunculus, steampunk, and magic circles (among other elements). It could fit into either or both categories, but has a primary focus on "fantasy"
Outbreak company is pretty obviously "high fantasy"; elves, dwarves, magic, etc.
Claymore is "dark fantasy", due to it being just standard knights + mythical beasts. I think i remember there being [I]some[/I] magic, but it's limited to the powers of the beasts?
However "dark fantasy" is a little too broad and can even include series like "Madoka" in it, which is why we call the category "supernatural" because it's broader in a different sense.
[B]Supernatural would include:[/B]
- Zombie/Undead, Demon*, Mermaid*, Vampire, Ghost, dark fantasy*, contemporary fantasy*
[B]Fantasy would include:[/B]
- High Fantasy, Fairies, Dragon, Elf, Goddess, Magic, Demon*, Mermaid*, contemporary fantasy*
[B]Edge cases:[/B]
[U]Demon:[/U] Ritual? Supernatural; Spell? Fantasy
[U]Mermaid:[/U] Horror? Supernatural; Not? Fantasy
[U]Dark Fantasy:[/U] Dependent on how much "magic" it has in it
[U]Contemporary fantasy:[/U] Needs to be determined on a per-case basis dependent on other elements
more can be added if needed
i'm fine with keeping the names as they are, it's just that a lot of the categories have very loose definitions atm.
like i'm not even sure what exactly the "psychological" category currently entails other than "'psychological thriller' without the thriller". or are we supposed to put "psychological thrillers" inside of psychological; so death note would be in that category instead of thriller??[/QUOTE]
Plus, you can be fantasy without having magical elements at all, usually in the high fantasy category, although it usually trades magical elements for technological elements and is nearly always in high fantasy as a result.
Now, for contemporary fantasy vs plain supernatural, I look at it like this.
It's the difference between having a wizard who lives down the street and nobody knows what the deal with that is while a certain person always seems to spend their time in the shade at the but stop, and having Mr Gristanpoli, fourteenth son of a fourteenth son, the warlock who levitates his newspaper through his window while a vampire waits under the shade specifically constructed for vampires at the bus stop. Or a cop who uses his psychic abilities to solve cases vs a cop who works for the psychic division of the police.
It comes down to the whole normal vs abnormal thing in a lot of cases.
[editline]4th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;46403051]
you can't use the word "supernatural" to define what "supernatural tends to be" you dunce[/QUOTE]
You know what I fucking mean, there's a difference between the use of the word supernatural to describe something supernatural in the literal and using it to describe supernatural as a genre due to the sharing of both fantastic and supernatural elements you pointy-capped corner-dwelling dunce
[b]Berserk[/B] new Anime series.? , Will there be more Films,OVA's, or TV show based after the event's of the Third Movie.
Serious case of blackface in EP12 of Tamako Market.
honestly it could be this simple:
is it fantasy as determined by any of the mythical creatures or magic in the lists i posted above?
--- does it have horror-ish elements? ur probs supernatural
--- no horror? congrats ur a fantasy
7/10 average category separation
[QUOTE=creec;46402190]
Anyway, what have people thought about [URL="http://myanimelist.net/anime/25835/Shirobako"]Shirobako[/URL] so far?
I finally decided to start it, but i'm just wondering if i should watch it alone (i got shit taste so i will probably like it anyway) or if it's good enough to watch with a friend (who has better taste than i do).[/QUOTE]
I watched the first four eps this weekend and I'd say it's pretty ok so far
It's a little hard to follow in the beginning because they throw a lot of characters at you at once and use terminology that may be foreign to anyone who doesn't know much about animation production but the character interactions are enjoyable and watching everyone freak out over deadlines is surprisingly entertaining
hanamonogatari araragi is fabulous as fuck dude
[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;46403051]anidb seems to have almost completely gotten rid of the "supernatural" tag, but moved all of it's subtags under [url=http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2849&reltb=animetb]fantasy[/url].
as it stands now,
[url=http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2647&reltb=animetb]high fantasy[/url] is the current goto standard for our "fantasy" category
[url=http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2649&reltb=animetb]dark fantasy[/url] is typically under our supernatural, although may be "fantasy" due to prevalent magic usage.
[url=http://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=tag&tagid=2648&reltb=animetb]contemporary fantasy[/url] is a blend of both high and dark, and as such tends to creep into both categories at once.
For example,
FMA:B is "contemporary" due to supernatural humunculus, steampunk, and magic circles (among other elements). It could fit into either or both categories, but has a primary focus on "fantasy"
Outbreak company is pretty obviously "high fantasy"; elves, dwarves, magic, etc.
Claymore is "dark fantasy", due to it being just standard knights + mythical beasts. I think i remember there being [i]some[/i] magic, but it's limited to the powers of the beasts?
However "dark fantasy" is a little too broad and can even include series like "Madoka" in it, which is why we call the category "supernatural" because it's broader in a different sense.
[B]Supernatural would include:[/B]
- Zombie/Undead, Demon*, Mermaid*, Vampire, Ghost, dark fantasy*, contemporary fantasy*
[B]Fantasy would include:[/B]
- High Fantasy, Fairies, Dragon, Elf, Goddess, Magic, Demon*, Mermaid*, contemporary fantasy*
[B]Edge cases:[/B]
[U]Demon:[/U] Ritual? Supernatural; Spell? Fantasy
[U]Mermaid:[/U] Horror? Supernatural; Not? Fantasy
[U]Dark Fantasy:[/U] Dependent on how much "magic" it has in it
[U]Contemporary fantasy:[/U] Needs to be determined on a per-case basis dependent on other elements
more can be added if needed
i'm fine with keeping the names as they are, it's just that a lot of the categories have very loose definitions atm.
like i'm not even sure what exactly the "psychological" category currently entails other than "'psychological thriller' without the thriller". or are we supposed to put "psychological thrillers" inside of psychological; so death note would be in that category instead of thriller??
[editline]3rd November 2014[/editline]
you can't use the word "supernatural" to define what "supernatural tends to be" you dunce[/QUOTE]
Dark fantasy has nothing to do with amount of magic or whatever, it just means it mixes fantasy elements with horror elements. Contemporary fantasy just means it has fantasy elements in the present.
[QUOTE=Novangel;46403173]Dark fantasy has nothing to do with amount of magic or whatever, it just means it mixes fantasy elements with horror elements.[/QUOTE]
yea, but dark fantasy [I]can have[/I] magic in it though
just like dark fantasy can have sports drama in it probably
[quote]Focus set on darker themes in a fantasy setting, sometimes leaning towards horror elements. Bleak and pessimistic tones often dominate. Dark supernatural beings like vampires may play a significant role.[/quote]
if it has magic in it, but it's a small amount, it's fine with being supernatural since it's mostly supernatural.
if the magic makes up a large portion of what it is then it's fantasy, because [I]magic[/I]
this can of course change depending on how many other fantasy/supernatural elements are present alongside it being a "dark fantasy"
(i said all of this in the post you quoted so idk~)
[b]I Will ask again about Berserk[/B] are they giving up on making a 4th Anime or OVA/TV Show.? and if no one els know's would could I expect to get some news/info what major Anime Expo in Japan would they go to.?
[QUOTE=HeroicPillow;46403186]yea, but dark fantasy [I]can have[/I] magic in it though
just like dark fantasy can have sports drama in it probably
if it has magic in it, but it's a small amount, it's fine with being supernatural since it's mostly supernatural.
if the magic makes up a large portion of what it is then it's fantasy, because [I]magic[/I]
this can of course change depending on how many other fantasy/supernatural elements are present alongside it being a "dark fantasy"
(i said all of this in the post you quoted so idk~)[/QUOTE]
Oops I completely misread that entire thing derp
[editline]4th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;46403190][b]I Will ask again about Berserk[/B] are they giving up on making a 4th Anime or OVA/TV Show.? and if no one els know's would could I expect to get some news/info what major Anime Expo in Japan would they go to.?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-02-02/berserk-staff-still-planning-more-after-3-films[/url]
[QUOTE=Novangel;46403213]
[url]http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-02-02/berserk-staff-still-planning-more-after-3-films[/url][/QUOTE] [b]W[/B]ell then when is [b]Japan's e3 or TGS equivalent for Anime news this yea[/B]r
[QUOTE=koeniginator;46403138]I watched the first four eps this weekend and I'd say it's pretty ok so far
It's a little hard to follow in the beginning because they throw a lot of characters at you at once and use terminology that may be foreign to anyone who doesn't know much about animation production but the character interactions are enjoyable and watching everyone freak out over deadlines is surprisingly entertaining[/QUOTE]
I never knew watching people freak out over deadlines and pass out from exhaustion could be so fun.
[QUOTE=theevilldeadII;46403236][b]W[/B]ell then when is [b]Japan's e3 or TGS equivalent for Anime news this yea[/B]r[/QUOTE]
s[B]eein[/B]g as a lo[B]t of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnimeJapan]bigname studios[/url] ar[/B]e behind this conve[B]ntion maybe you shou[/B]ld look at this[B] link[/B]
[url]http://anime-japan.jp/en/[/url]
[B]
whether[/B] or not any[B] worthwhile info[/B] will come out of[B] it is unknown[/B]
[editline]hi[/editline]
pls stop randomly bolding stuff thx
[B]OldAverageJoe[/B]
According to my very trustworthy sources Black Jack is an adventure drama, not a thriller.
What do you (or anyone else present) have to say in your defense?
According to my very trustworthy sources Baccano isn't a thriller either, not even a drama. I am in two minds about this, but after all Baccano isn't so much about an overarching story at all, as much as it is about several peoples stories clashing together under a supernatural setting.
What does anyone else have to say to this?
[QUOTE=dgg;46403357][B]OldAverageJoe[/B]
According to my very trustworthy sources Black Jack is an adventure drama, not a thriller.
What do you (or anyone else present) have to say in your defense?
According to my very trustworthy sources Baccano isn't a thriller either, not even a drama. I am in two minds about this, but after all Baccano isn't so much about an overarching story at all, as much as it is about several peoples stories clashing together under a supernatural setting.
What does anyone else have to say to this?[/QUOTE]
I would argue that Baccano is a thriller as the plot revolves around revealing information tactically to increase intrigue, i.e. twists.
While there isn't a big twist ending, along the journey there are lots of twists and turns that are meant to shock and surprise the viewer, hence a thriller.
It's also supernatural and mystery, but nobody ever said a show can't cross multiple genres.
what the hell, is lab.facepunch broken or something, I tried to search something and everything is in xxxxxx's suddenly
Unless I've gone back in time there's a thread that I saw months ago and the forum thinks it was 5 minutes ago.
I think I'm going mad from sleep deprivation though so don't take me as a reliable source.
The shingeki no bahamut op has really grown on me
Man the fanservice in Space Battleship Yamato 2199 is so fucking glaring. All the men have regular uniforms, women have skintight figure promoting latexy shit on. And I swear that in a few scenes they ENLARGE their asses if they're in front of the 'camera'.
Discussing genres is always a messy thing.
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