• Unpopular opinions! V2: I Don't like half life edition.
    17,782 replies, posted
[QUOTE=The golden;44917012]So? What is it about games that makes it OK to sell incomplete/dysfunctional products? Why are games allowed to do this while other industries are not?[/QUOTE] It's business. It's bullshit, but it's business.
[QUOTE=Teracotta;44910063]Like really I wasn't, like, aware at all. Like. Direct quotes from mentally ill people should be taken with a grain of salt.[/QUOTE] Wow thanks
[QUOTE=The golden;44917152]That's a pretty bad cop-out.[/QUOTE] Hence why it's bullshit
[QUOTE=Steele92;44917169]Wow thanks[/QUOTE] You're welcome.
[QUOTE=The golden;44915676]If a retailer in any other industry sold such a large amount of incomplete and broken products they would be in serious legal hot water - especially in countries which have tighter consumer protection laws. But because it's the games industry selling half-finished games for $30+ is acceptable and often encouraged.[/QUOTE] A lot of things which are considered acceptable in the game industry would cause massive backlash anywhere else.
[QUOTE=The golden;44917012]So? What is it about games that makes it OK to sell incomplete/dysfunctional products? Why are games allowed to do this while other industries are not?[/QUOTE] software isn't really comparable to food, drug or automotive industries. if a early access dev encourages active community involvement in improving the game, that's one thing. if they abandon it, that's another
[QUOTE=Ownederd;44917799]software isn't really comparable to food, drug or automotive industries. if a early access dev encourages active community involvement in improving the game, that's one thing. if they abandon it, that's another[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but the games industry is fucking bullshit. If I'm not satisfied with a book or a movie I can return it, can't do that on steam (or most other digital stores). If I buy a book or a movie I know it's a finished product, it could be shit but it'll be finished, steam openly flaunts the fact that a ton of it's games are unfinished and even sells unfinished games as complete products. If I have a book or a movie I can sell it to whoever I want and no one gives a shit. If I try to do that with a game I'm "harming the games industry" because "trading in and reselling games is bad" for some reason. If I buy a book or a DVD I know I wont be hounded to buy 30 minor DLC packs for $5 each the day I get it, with the game industry it's a common fucking occurrence to announce a season pass for multiple DLC packages [i]the day you announce the game exists[/i]. The games industry is filled with anti-consumer bullshit and it's disgusting how many people actually defend it.
[QUOTE=Novangel;44909790]GOG let's you keep all the games, manuals, soundtracks, wallpapers or whatever DRM free.[/QUOTE] Gog is generally the place I prefer to get my games. They have had a few issues with older games they released which did have DRM complaints though and they do allow some DRM such as key checks. But overall they're still significantly better than Steam excluding shitty Steam exclusive garbage. I love having to pass on great games I really want just because they decided Steam was the only place they should release.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;44919683]steam openly flaunts the fact that a ton of it's games are unfinished and even sells unfinished games as complete products.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree with you, but I think Steam's idea of selling unfinished games, in theory, is a neat idea. You pretty much pay to be an alpha or beta tester and become part of helping the game reach it's full potential. For some people, they would enjoy doing that, and supporting the devs. However, the way [U]Steam[/U] handles it is beyond idiotic, and they grudgingly give out refunds for removed or misleading games despite it being entirely their fault people were allowed to purchase them in the first place.
[QUOTE=The golden;44915676]If a retailer in any other industry sold such a large amount of incomplete and broken products they would be in serious legal hot water - especially in countries which have tighter consumer protection laws. But because it's the games industry selling half-finished games for $30+ is acceptable and often encouraged.[/QUOTE] Finally, someone else who realizes how asinine all of this "early access" shit is. I know it's good for devs to get early feedback on their game before it's released so they can tweak it to a point where everyone will enjoy it in time for release, but I'd rather play a finished product that was never played by anyone but private beta testers than an incomplete product full of inevitable bugs, game-breaking exploits, optimization issues, etc. And it might not turn out to be the game you wanted, either. Minecraft is a good example of an early access game gone bad. Everything was solid and perfect until beta v1.8, when they revamped the game with the hunger system, "adventure mode", and all of this other crazy stuff. It also introduced tons of new bugs, some of which are still prevalent in the current version of the game (for instance, chunks not loading properly after walking a certain distance unless you force them to by walking over them or by toggling your render distance). Yes, it brought some neat things to the table like sprinting and the Endermen (but their original design was a lot cooler, and they were buggy as fuck for so long after release). But all in all, Minecraft is a shadow of its former self, and it's a perfect example of why early access isn't as good as everyone makes it out to be.
Miyamoto is frustrating me. The Mario RPGs, and to a lesser extent, Super Mario Galaxy has demonstrated that the series bears the ability to tell great stories, but fuck it. We gotta keep shit simple because Miyamoto said so.
[QUOTE=Lordgeorge16;44921748]Finally, someone else who realizes how asinine all of this "early access" shit is. I know it's good for devs to get early feedback on their game before it's released so they can tweak it to a point where everyone will enjoy it in time for release, but I'd rather play a finished product that was never played by anyone but private beta testers than an incomplete product full of inevitable bugs, game-breaking exploits, optimization issues, etc. And it might not turn out to be the game you wanted, either. Minecraft is a good example of an early access game gone bad. Everything was solid and perfect until beta v1.8, when they revamped the game with the hunger system, "adventure mode", and all of this other crazy stuff. It also introduced tons of new bugs, some of which are still prevalent in the current version of the game (for instance, chunks not loading properly after walking a certain distance unless you force them to by walking over them or by toggling your render distance). Yes, it brought some neat things to the table like sprinting and the Endermen (but their original design was a lot cooler, and they were buggy as fuck for so long after release). But all in all, Minecraft is a shadow of its former self, and it's a perfect example of why early access isn't as good as everyone makes it out to be.[/QUOTE] I agree with this. I really want to know what the hell Mojang are doing considering all the mediocre updates they keep adding yet there are modders who create so much more in a helluva lot less time.
[QUOTE=artDecor;44922063]Miyamoto is frustrating me. The Mario RPGs, and to a lesser extent, Super Mario Galaxy has demonstrated that the series bears the ability to tell great stories, but fuck it. We gotta keep shit simple because Miyamoto said so.[/QUOTE] As a whole, Mario was never about the story. Yeah, you had games like Paper Mario but in essence, Mario has always been meant as a quick and easy game to play, where you can just pick it up, play a few levels, admire the beautiful backgrounds and then put it back down. The story never really needs to go farther than "save the princess, Bowser is a dick". Even Sunshine, one of my favorites, still managed to be a wonderful game and add a [I]little[/I] bit of story but at base it was still just "save the princess, Bowser AND his son are dicks".
[QUOTE=Widow Engie;44923268]I agree with this. I really want to know what the hell Mojang are doing considering all the mediocre updates they keep adding yet there are modders who create so much more in a helluva lot less time.[/QUOTE] Minecraft was great before the enchantment system. To me, it added an extra layer of bullshit to a free roaming box-placing game. That, and the amount of mods that are required to supposedly have a "good time". Just let me make a house out of dirt and bricks, I don't need your 10x Buttfucker 2x Dicksucker Diamond Enchanted Dragon's Nipple picaxe.
[QUOTE=Lordgeorge16;44921748]Finally, someone else who realizes how asinine all of this "early access" shit is. I know it's good for devs to get early feedback on their game before it's released so they can tweak it to a point where everyone will enjoy it in time for release, but I'd rather play a finished product that was never played by anyone but private beta testers than an incomplete product full of inevitable bugs, game-breaking exploits, optimization issues, etc. And it might not turn out to be the game you wanted, either. Minecraft is a good example of an early access game gone bad. Everything was solid and perfect until beta v1.8, when they revamped the game with the hunger system, "adventure mode", and all of this other crazy stuff. It also introduced tons of new bugs, some of which are still prevalent in the current version of the game (for instance, chunks not loading properly after walking a certain distance unless you force them to by walking over them or by toggling your render distance). Yes, it brought some neat things to the table like sprinting and the Endermen (but their original design was a lot cooler, and they were buggy as fuck for so long after release). But all in all, Minecraft is a shadow of its former self, and it's a perfect example of why early access isn't as good as everyone makes it out to be.[/QUOTE] Early access isn't all bad, Path of Exile was mostly funded while it was still in closed/open beta and it has turned out to be one of the best games out there. But on the whole I have to agree, way too many devs exploit the system. [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44923452]Minecraft was great before the enchantment system. To me, it added an extra layer of bullshit to a free roaming box-placing game. That, and the amount of mods that are required to supposedly have a "good time". Just let me make a house out of dirt and bricks, I don't need your 10x Buttfucker 2x Dicksucker Diamond Enchanted Dragon's Nipple picaxe.[/QUOTE] I have to disagree with this though, if you enjoy just making houses out of dirt and bricks, go do it. There are plenty of vanilla servers out there, nothing forces you to download mods, play on modded servers or use the enchantment system. Enchanting & potion brewing are sources of bonus goods if you are willing to accept them, and I like them a lot. Gives more reason to go on adventures if I get bored of building. You still harvest stone and dirt and shit as fast as you did before the game had enchanting, but if you wanna do it faster you can spend that excess EXP to get your pickaxe upgraded. The option of an upgraded mining speed doesn't mean the base mining speed was actually nerfed, you know.
I don't think the 1960s counterculture movement was much great at all, and it helped create just as many problems as the ones it solved. Things only really began to recover from it once you hit the 1990s. It seems more like an embarrassing time than something baby boomers should be proud of. Existing problems were multiplied and still linger on today.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44924292]I don't think the 1960s counterculture movement was much great at all, and it helped create just as many problems as the ones it solved. Things only really began to recover from it once you hit the 1990s. It seems more like an embarrassing time than something baby boomers should be proud of. Existing problems were multiplied and still linger on today.[/QUOTE] legitimately curious- what problems are those?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44924429]legitimately curious- what problems would those be?[/QUOTE] Mostly large changes in cultural norms. Anti-Establishment movements gained a lot of traction. The "enemy" of Western Establishment (Marxism) was jumped on by everyone, not to mention anti-colonial movements and "liberation". The results (such as many former colonies descending into bloody civil war) was blamed on someone else. There was a large plummeting of trust in social institutions. The culture glorified acting on your impulses more and having less self control (I.e if it feels good, do it). The idea that people should be in interdependent mutually supporting webs came under attack as well. In the United States from 1962 to 1979, the likelihood that a crime would lead to an arrest dropped from 0.32 to 0.18, the likelihood that an arrest would lead to imprisonment dropped from 0.32 to 0.14, and the likelihood that a crime would lead to imprisonment fell from 0.10 to 0.02, a factor of five. This was largely because judges and legislators became less willing to put people behind bars. Offenses against civil order like vagrancy, loitering, and panhandling were decriminalized, and minor crimes like vandalism, graffiti-spraying, turnstile-jumping, and urinating in public fell off the police radar screens. It hit Black communities really hard. The civil rights movement was getting going, and they were at a critical point between respectability and falling into a life of crime. The decline in convictions, old racism among the police, and the counterculture movement reduced faith in the ability of the law to solve problems. From that point on, whole communities would spiral downwards.
Your Favorite Martian were decent when I listened to them, catchy songs. Then I think they made a series or something.
Anti-GMO food campaigners are just modern luddites.
I like Turn My Swag On by Souljia Boy
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;44923452]Minecraft was great before the enchantment system. To me, it added an extra layer of bullshit to a free roaming box-placing game. That, and the amount of mods that are required to supposedly have a "good time". Just let me make a house out of dirt and bricks, I don't need your 10x Buttfucker 2x Dicksucker Diamond Enchanted Dragon's Nipple picaxe.[/QUOTE] Lately I've been thinking of rolling back my client to beta 1.7.3, the last good Minecraft update. At least it's easy to do with this new game launcher. What I'm worried about is if there are any servers actually running that old version of the game. I get incredibly bored playing singleplayer Minecraft (and I'm awful at building things, I'm only good at gathering resources and killing monsters). I have to play that game with friends or it just doesn't feel worth playing.
Watch Dogs never looked like a fun or interesting game. [editline]27th May 2014[/editline] Granted, it did at least look [I]more[/I] interesting in the E3 trailer.
[QUOTE=Virtanen;44924885]Anti-GMO food campaigners are just modern luddites.[/QUOTE] Try telling my mom that. She'll give you an endless supply of sources from shady sites proving you wrong all while telling you your legitimate sources are biased or flat out wrong despite having actual evidence compared to hers.
I think Mario Kart is vastly overrated.
You're gay
[QUOTE=Virtanen;44924885]Anti-GMO food campaigners are just modern luddites.[/QUOTE] The only problem with GMO foods is Monsanto
Because people are complaining about Final Fantasy III's price... 16 dollars to say you want a PC version of Final Fantasy XV is a pretty fair deal.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44924525]Mostly large changes in cultural norms. Anti-Establishment movements gained a lot of traction. The "enemy" of Western Establishment (Marxism) was jumped on by everyone, not to mention anti-colonial movements and "liberation". The results (such as many former colonies descending into bloody civil war) was blamed on someone else. There was a large plummeting of trust in social institutions. The culture glorified acting on your impulses more and having less self control (I.e if it feels good, do it). The idea that people should be in interdependent mutually supporting webs came under attack as well. In the United States from 1962 to 1979, the likelihood that a crime would lead to an arrest dropped from 0.32 to 0.18, the likelihood that an arrest would lead to imprisonment dropped from 0.32 to 0.14, and the likelihood that a crime would lead to imprisonment fell from 0.10 to 0.02, a factor of five. This was largely because judges and legislators became less willing to put people behind bars. Offenses against civil order like vagrancy, loitering, and panhandling were decriminalized, and minor crimes like vandalism, graffiti-spraying, turnstile-jumping, and urinating in public fell off the police radar screens. It hit Black communities really hard. The civil rights movement was getting going, and they were at a critical point between respectability and falling into a life of crime. The decline in convictions, old racism among the police, and the counterculture movement reduced faith in the ability of the law to solve problems. From that point on, whole communities would spiral downwards.[/QUOTE] So essentially you have a problem with the fact that the paternalistic state became socially untenable, leading to a backlash against structures which curtailed the autonomy of groups of people? With this and the neo-reactionary debate thread I'm really worried your turning into an unwitting authoritarian Sobotnik.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;44929144]So essentially you have a problem with the fact that the paternalistic state became socially untenable, leading to a backlash against structures which curtailed the autonomy of groups of people?[/QUOTE] it's not so much that, it's that the response to it was completely cocked up things did begin to improve significantly in the 1990s, and are better today than in the 1950s [QUOTE=Lonestriper;44929144]With this and the neo-reactionary debate thread I'm really worried your turning into an unwitting authoritarian Sobotnik.[/QUOTE] i like freedom and democracy too much for that of course, attacks on freedom can come from any part of the political spectrum
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.