• Gun experts come here, I need help deciding on home defense weapons
    158 replies, posted
i have a chainsaw. for ripping and tearing
I'd rather go for a home defense system that keeps people out. Not a stupid alarm, I mean something like concrete walls, barred windows, stuff meant to keep intruders out.
[QUOTE=40kplayer;17839353]I'd rather go for a home defense system that keeps people out. Not a stupid alarm, I mean something like concrete walls, barred windows, stuff meant to keep intruders out.[/QUOTE] That's ghetto as fuck.
[QUOTE=GunFox;17839234]sweet Jesus I'm criminal justice major. I work with police. I use firearms regularly. [/QUOTE] Good for you, I'm a medical student. I watch dead people who were shot. [QUOTE=GunFox;17839234]YES. You can kill with virtually any round. NO. Not all rounds produce significant enough trauma to stop a human being fast enough. [/QUOTE] That's not what the thread is about. It's about what is the best weapon in home defense. I'm simply making the point that when it comes to stopping an armed person, a .22 is still capable of it. You don't brush off any wound that easily. If a .45 penetrates less and is cheaper, then good, but stopping power and round size isn't as big of an issue. [QUOTE=GunFox;17839234]You understand we are talking a matter of seconds here right? You realize that the goal in a self defense firearm is to kill or incapacitate completely another human being nearly instantly. Because if it isn't capable of doing so, they can shoot you. That is the point. If they are unarmed, you shouldn't be shooting them anyhow. If they are wielding a knife then they are either close enough to where you need to drop them instantly or far enough away that you can demand their surrender.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Perfumly;17839363]That's ghetto as fuck.[/QUOTE] I like having ghetto stuff. It lasts.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;17839343]A shotgun will shred a room and break more shit most likely.[/QUOTE] If you miss. They dont spread as much as you would figure, at 30 feet with NO choke even the spread with 00 buck will only be about a foot. Also, at close range (less than 30 feet), birdshot is VERY lethal, and has very minimal penetration. Not a bad choice IMO.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;17839401]If you miss. They dont spread as much as you would figure, at 30 feet with NO choke even the spread with 00 buck will only be about a foot.[/QUOTE] I know a shotgun doesn't spread very much over a short distance, but you'll still break a lot more shit from possible ricochets with buckshot.
A round of shot is just a ball, have you throw a ball against a flat surface lately?
[QUOTE=Perfumly;17839411]I know a shotgun doesn't spread very much over a short distance, but you'll still break a lot more shit from possible ricochets with buckshot.[/QUOTE] Go with birdshot then. It will still kill anything at anything less than 30 feet. And it wont penetrate far at all.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;17839320]Most types of buckshot will penetrate less than a 9mm AND .45 though. Im just not seeing the advantage to a handgun or pistol caliber weapon, care to enlighten me?[/QUOTE] For a few reasons personally. I can keep one hand free with a handgun and wield a flashlight or open doors without suffering a loss of managability. I can also investigate those things that go bump in the night or whatever my dogs are barking at without freaking the neighbors out. In addition my girlfriend lives with me and can wield handguns, as they are one size fits all, but she is small and a shotgun suited to me would not suit her. Shotguns are pretty heavy for tiny people and can wail on them pretty hard even when used properly. A gun that is uncomfortable to use is a gun you aren't going to practice with. Single stack quality stainless handgun magazines can remain loaded effectively indefinitely without care. Blued ones will also work, but I find they are a little higher on friction when not lubricated. Granted I've never actually had a misfeed from one, so I'm not actually sure it matters. Handguns can actually be fired inside without serious disorientation or extended hearing loss. Shorter barreled shotguns cannot say the same. And if you get a long barrel one you still have to contend with sound, and now you have the added problem of shit maneuverability and a heavier front end.
[QUOTE=GunFox;17839448]For a few reasons personally. I can keep one hand free with a handgun and wield a flashlight or open doors without suffering a loss of managability. I can also investigate those things that go bump in the night or whatever my dogs are barking at without freaking the neighbors out. In addition my girlfriend lives with me and can wield handguns, as they are one size fits all, but she is small and a shotgun suited to me would not suit her. Shotguns are pretty heavy for tiny people and can wail on them pretty hard even when used properly. A gun that is uncomfortable to use is a gun you aren't going to practice with. Single stack quality stainless handgun magazines can remain loaded effectively indefinitely without care. Blued ones will also work, but I find they are a little higher on friction when not lubricated. Granted I've never actually had a misfeed from one, so I'm not actually sure it matters. Handguns can actually be fired inside without serious disorientation or extended hearing loss. Shorter barreled shotguns cannot say the same. And if you get a long barrel one you still have to contend with sound, and now you have the added problem of shit maneuverability and a heavier front end.[/QUOTE] Goddamn you cook up a convincing argument quickly
[QUOTE=GunFox;17839448]For a few reasons personally. I can keep one hand free with a handgun and wield a flashlight or open doors without suffering a loss of managability. I can also investigate those things that go bump in the night or whatever my dogs are barking at without freaking the neighbors out. Handguns can actually be fired inside without serious disorientation or extended hearing loss. Shorter barreled shotguns cannot say the same. And if you get a long barrel one you still have to contend with sound, and now you have the added problem of shit maneuverability and a heavier front end.[/QUOTE] Very valid points. Especially the one hand free. Though I cant agree with the disorientation. Ive fired shorter barreled shotgun at the range without plugs in (accidentally) and my ears were ringing for a while, but I dont think I would have had any trouble getting another reasonably well aimed round off. Another good point, you said PERSONALLY. What it really comes down is personal preferance. SBS's and handguns both have advantages that should be considered for your individual needs/ situation. A smaller person in a less crowede area would likely benefit from a smaller caliber pistol or carbine, whereas a bigger person in a more densely populated area may benefit from an SBS loaded with birdshot.
+disorientation works both ways
[QUOTE=thisispain;17839372]Good for you, I'm a medical student. I watch dead people who were shot. [/QUOTE] Great, I talk to, and take courses from, former military personnel and SWAT members who actually have shot people. Round choice matters. They are there during the moments where your round choices matter. They see the responses that occur. And then they drill it into us that people do not just fall down because you shot them. Everyone will react differently to being shot and the type of round you choose to engage them with is going to go a long ways towards making sure they DO fall down because you shot them. Christ, we are having a problem with 5.56 NATO because it isn't killing insurgents. They take RIFLE ROUNDS to the chest or extremities and continue to shoot back.
[QUOTE=GunFox;17839499]Great, I talk to, and take courses from, former military personnel and SWAT members who actually have shot people. Round choice matters. They are there during the moments where your round choices matter. They see the responses that occur. And then they drill it into us that people do not just fall down because you shot them. Everyone will react differently to being shot and the type of round you choose to engage them with is going to go a long ways towards making sure they DO fall down because you shot them. Christ, we are having a problem with 5.56 NATO because it isn't killing insurgents. They take RIFLE ROUNDS to the chest or extremities and continue to shoot back.[/QUOTE] That's because the 5.56x45mm is a terrible round. [b]Edit:[/b] I forgot what it was but there was a compromise between the 7.62x39mm and the 5.56x45mm and it was a very nice round.
I don't know why I didn't notice this thread yet. Ok here's how it breaks down: -Rifles tend to have too much over-penetration. They are effective but the possibility of collateral damage is pretty high, unless you are using fragmenting or expanding ammunition. Like all long guns they also tend to be unwieldy. Also, the higher the caliber, the tougher it is to control. The magazine capacity of a good semi-automatic rifle is roughly 30 rounds which is never a bad thing. But like I said. Too bulky and too much collateral. And if it isn't semi-automatic forget about it. Then again if you have a large property with lots of open space a rifle could be indispensable for dealing with intruders outside the house. But this would be in a total "shit hits the fan" scenario, since doing this is normally very iffy as far as self-defense laws go. -Shotguns are lethal at close range if you want them to be. One major advantage is a good deal of versatility. A good pump-action can be switched between a variety of rounds from horrendous to merely irritating. The catch is that ye ol' average 12 gauge isn't the easiest weapon to use. Nor the fastest. As with all long guns it is bulkier than a pistol. Shotguns in particular tend to have fierce recoil. The sound would also be deafening. But then again, that loud bang, or even the sound of a shotgun being pumped will send any home invader fleeing. Still, it is a very loud weapon and more importantly one that is very difficult to use. -Pistol carbines are "rifles" in pistol calibers such as the hi-point 995. They offer rounds that don't penetrate as much but in a rifle platform. This is ultimately only useful at longer ranges. Really, I'd go with a pistol. So essentially we're down to pistols. -Automatics have the advantage that they can hold more rounds in a magazine (usually) and can be reloaded much faster. The two most common would be either 9x19mm or .45ACP. The former has less power but usually a very high magazine capacity (as much as 20 rounds or so) but this varies from gun to gun. All you need to know is that they typically hold more bullets then the .45s which don't need as many because they pack much more punch. -Revolvers have an advantage in the sense that they tend to be far more reliable. The design is purely mechanical. You aren't reliant on the recoil of the last cartridge to cycle the action properly. There is much less that can go wrong. Therefore, the odds of a jam are next to nothing. Another neat feature is that if, for instance, you get a gun in .357 Magnum you can also fire .38 special out of it without modification. The sound of the weapon being cocked is also very intimidating. And because of the gap between the barrel and cylinder they tend to be pretty loud too. The slower reload speed can be overcome with a speed loader or if the revolver uses moon clips. I spend a lot of time hanging around in a local gun store. People walk in, having never owned a gun before asking for one for self-defense. The most common recommendation is the latter. A snub-nosed revolver. It is a relatively easy gun to learn how to shoot. There is very little that can go wrong. You can count on it. You can bet your very life on it. My personal recommendation would be a .357 revolver of any kind. You should mostly stick to .38s since they are easier to fire, but upgrading to .357 magnum rounds without modification is always a neat option. As far as barrel length all of them would work fine. A smaller barrel means it can be concealed in a drawer easier. A longer barrel could decrease the hearing damage and recoil somewhat, as well as imporving the intimidation factor and accuracy (should you need it). Usually people get 1-3inch snub-nosed guns.
Use something with stopping power, not speed, 9mm rounds would pass through the assailant quite easily, causing pain, but not enough to stop him from attacking. I have several handguns located in various spots around my house, they are all .45 caliber handguns, a shotgun would be good too, but make sure to get a pistol grip handle for it because of the confined spaces of a house. Best type of ammo to use would be hollow point ammunition due to its abilities when it hits a target, it expands, causing more damage and it has more of a chance of knocking the assailant of his feet. Also it would be good to have a high powered flashlight as well, to disorient the assailant and make it easier for you to see what you are shooting at. Also a good thing to remember is when in close quarter situations like that, it is best to have a laser on the pistol for quick target acquisition.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;17839505]That's because the 5.56x45mm is a terrible round. [b]Edit:[/b] I forgot what it was but there was a compromise between the 7.62x39mm and the 5.56x45mm and it was a very nice round.[/QUOTE] 6.8mm. It was godly. Thread hijack imminent.
what was the length of the 6.8mm? 39mm or 45mm or some other shady length?
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;17839491]Very valid points. Especially the one hand free. Though I cant agree with the disorientation. Ive fired shorter barreled shotgun at the range without plugs in (accidentally) and my ears were ringing for a while, but I dont think I would have had any trouble getting another reasonably well aimed round off.[/QUOTE] Audibly I can see resisting the disorientation. I can't personally because my ears are wussies. But to me it is that muzzle flash that is going to get you. Even if you have someone lit up by a flashlight mounted on the shotty, that flash is still gonna be a temporary blind as it is still more than likely going to be awfully dark. Chances are, with a proper load in that shotgun, you aren't going to need any more shots fired, but that is still something that would concern me. But there is no denying a good load in a shotgun will fucking RUIN somebody, so if you have the skill and the means, the shotgun is a suitable choice. I'd just make sure there was a light attached so you don't need to confirm targets in the dark.
[QUOTE=WallyGamer4;17839527]9mm rounds would pass through the assailant quite easily,[/QUOTE] Stopped reading right about.....THERE.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;17839536]6.8mm. It was godly. Thread hijack imminent.[/QUOTE] 6.5 Grendel was the other one. 6.8 SPC has some problems. 6.5 is a touch weaker than 6.8, but sports way better accuracy and range.
[QUOTE=Perfumly;17839540]what was the length of the 6.8mm? 39mm or 45mm or some other shady length?[/QUOTE] The length escapes me unfortunately, maybe Bean-o can recall? [editline]04:54AM[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;17839551]6.5 Grendel was the other one. 6.8 SPC has some problems. 6.5 is a touch weaker than 6.8, but sports way better accuracy and range.[/QUOTE] Something about 6.8 being way too fucking expensive as well right?
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;17839554]The length escapes me unfortunately, maybe Bean-o can recall? [editline]04:54AM[/editline] Something about 6.8 being way too fucking expensive as well right?[/QUOTE] I dunno about the price. I know it was expensive as shit, but I assumed that was simply due to supply and demand being waaayyyy off. Almost nobody makes the stuff. I don't think it uses anything that would increase the manufacturing price. So if the caliber was popular, it shouldn't cost too much more I would THINK.
The debate rages on. :patriot:
One more thing I forgot to mention. Whatever gun you finally decide upon, be sure to [b]get practice with it[/b]. Know how to use it. Know how to use it effectively. Have a good feel for the recoil, the accuracy, the reloading, everything. Before you bet your life on any piece of equipment you darn better know how to use it right. Especially considering that you will be using it under extreme stress. This goes for everyone who would think to use it in self-defense. Is the gun there for you as well as the rest of your family? They should be able to use it too.
[QUOTE=Bean-O;17839526]I don't know why I didn't notice this thread yet. My personal recommendation would be a .357 revolver of any kind. You should mostly stick to .38s since they are easier to fire, but upgrading to .357 magnum rounds without modification is always a neat option. As far as barrel length all of them would work fine. A smaller barrel means it can be concealed in a drawer easier. A longer barrel could decrease the hearing damage and recoil somewhat, as well as imporving the intimidation factor and accuracy (should you need it). Usually people get 1-3inch snub-nosed guns.[/QUOTE] I dunno dude. You talk about a 12ga being tough to handle? A short barreled .357 is a wrist breaker. I cant see getting a follow up shot off with one of those within a full second or two of firing the first.
[QUOTE=Timebomb757;17839811]I dunno dude. You talk about a 12ga being tough to handle? A short barreled .357 is a wrist breaker. I cant see getting a follow up shot off with one of those within a full second or two of firing the first.[/QUOTE] He was talking about getting a .357 revolver and loading it with .38 special. Those rounds are reasonably tame and still gives you the option of using the more powerful .357 rounds if you so desire. .357 revolvers can load either round without trouble. [editline]01:33AM[/editline] Dammit Gurant, you don't close threads that have an active civilized discussion.
He figured it was resolved, but the actual decision is still up in the air. While my recommendation is a .357 Magnum revolver with a 2-4 inch barrel, automatic handguns still have their merits. What it comes down to is this. Go to any local gun store and check out what they have. Go. Do it. Come back and tell us what they have there. Stuff like "Well, they had gun X for price 1, gun Y for price 2 and gun Z for price 3. What are the advantages and disadvantages of those options?"
My suggestion is to go for a Ruger revolver, probably want to go for snub nosed. Try looking at a SP101.
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