Healthcare should be free. Nobody should have to pay for things that are in many cases, out of their control.
It's absolutely disgusting
[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;48241390]Healthcare should be free. Nobody should have to pay for things that are in many cases, out of their control.
It's absolutely disgusting[/QUOTE]
yes but then we'd have taxes and more people would complain
[QUOTE=Pigbear;48241492]yes but then we'd have taxes and more people would complain[/QUOTE]
[img]http://facepunch.com/image.php?u=445941&dateline=1420513586[/img]
i'd be fine with more taxes if they went to a government that treated the citizenry a bit better. shit, i'd be happy if they just defund the ATF and end the war on drugs so my money doesn't go to that. i'd happily pay for 0.1% healthcare and 93% F-35 fixing then.
[QUOTE=Winstonn;48240978]source [url]http://www.10news.com/news/one-rattlesnake-bite-150k-doctor-bill[/url]
that absolute tool tried to take a selfie with it
[editline]g[/editline]
and no, I'm not justifying the ridiculous bill
I don't know much about snakes and what pushes them to bite, but I would guess that I was lucky not to be bitten by a rattlesnake myself when I was in the states in 2011
walked into the fucker when it was dark, shunted it hard with my foot and it raised its head and rattled at me[/QUOTE]
I hope no one in the region was accidentally bitten because this idiot depleted two hospitals of anti venom.
[QUOTE=OvB;48240416]In personal experience the best doctors I've had are the specialists you see outside of the hospitals. My orthopedic specialist/surgeon and ENT specialist we're the best doctors I've had because they too are running a business but it's dependent on their quality because the patients have to see them more than just for the surgery.
I feel like the hospital doctors are too burnt out and have too many patients and are exposed to too much reality to really care about their patients as more than just a client so to speak. We're talking about people that probably see people die every day and can't get too attached and worked up that it might have been someone in their care. One minute they're telling a family their grandpa didn't make it, the next they're telling someone he needs the leg amputated, the next hes clearing a patient to leave, then its lunch, then back to the grind, and a surgery the next morning. I don't think they [I]can[/I] care. It would be too hard.
[editline]18th July 2015[/editline]
I wonder how much the price would change in the US if we really made an effort to tackle overcharging for equipment/medicines.[/QUOTE]
Specialists are a business too, but they do good patient care because they dont want you to go tell your friends that they were an asshole. NOW, the care they gave you, probably excellent, was it necessary? Was it actually preformed an efficient way? You might have issues with your tonsils, and they might put you down for a tonsillectomy, but your adenoids might be amazingly perfect, but your surgeon could play the "lets take them out anyways cause it might help", just to jack the bill up, because now its two procedures. (literally seen shit like that)
Hospital doctors(mainly surgeons), Its not that they dont care about their patients on a personal level, its more of they dont care whats best for the patient, financial wise. Whats the point in saving someones life if you just made them homeless? Saving someone 500 dollars on their medical bill by using item A vs B is what I mean. A lot of doctors do a lot of unnecessary shit just for the purpose of "hell i get more money out of this" or "I like using this instead of that, because its quicker and easier for me", a lot of them justify it by saying that it helps the patient if it helps them, in reality its shaving 10 minutes on the procedure they're preforming while costing the patient an extra 800 dollars. To me that sounds lazy and not looking out for the patients best interest if it doesn't benefit them outside of shaving 10 minutes off of a 2 hour procedure. Robotic surgeries are a perfect example (especially robotic hysterectomies), stupidly more expensive, easier for the surgeon, but as much as researchers like to try to argue the better recovery time associated with it, theres a lot of counter research and a lot of other surgeons who heavily see it as a "cop-out" for less inexperienced surgeons when it comes to laporscopic procedures. They also require around double the equipment. THEY are good though for some specific procedures such as nephrectomy (removal of the kidneys) because the anatomy with it is so tight (behind the intestines and a layer of tissue), the steady hands are much more needed VS tumbling around in the belly (which can take A LOT more than you can think, where you can poke and toss things around much more freely).
The military probably has the BEST health care when it comes to being free (american wise), Tricare is a pretty good deal, its a functioning obama care. I have a PCM (primary care provider) whose a GP, i see him, if he cant deal with it, he sends me to a specialist, the specialist sees me and tries the LEAST expensive treatment first if theres a decent chance it might work, than goes from there until im fixed. The issue is with that is you get stuck behind red tape too often, when you need surgery but your doctor wants to try physical therapy first instead of refer you onwards to a surgeon. Its pretty much the same health care you get in canada and other countries, wait times might be longer, and the care might be iffy sometimes, but its free, the option for paying for the fancy shit exists still.
Funny how we have a functioning socialist health care, we just made it private to the government.
[editline]19th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;48240514] (Don't even know why people go to a hospital first its a six hour wait*). .[/QUOTE]
If you're uninsured, a private practice won't see you, if you're sick with something that requires anti-biotics to go away, or something minor a GP can do, but you can't get access to him, you have to go to the ER to get it treated or miss work. You also drive up the cost for the hospital stuff too, because if you can't afford to miss work, and insure yourself, you probably can't afford to pay the bill.
[QUOTE=Pigbear;48241492]yes but then we'd have taxes and more people would complain[/QUOTE]
I've never understood the 'more taxes' argument, especially from people who have health insurance
Health insurance is usually a few hundred bucks a month, a few thousand annually, so you're already shelling out a good chunk of money, but for some reason slightly higher taxes are an unacceptable alternative
[QUOTE=Sitkero;48243586]I've never understood the 'more taxes' argument, especially from people who have health insurance
Health insurance is usually a few hundred bucks a month, a few thousand annually, so you're already shelling out a good chunk of money, but for some reason slightly higher taxes are an unacceptable alternative[/QUOTE]
Because it means you're paying for [I]other people's healthcare[/I] and this is AMERICA and they should pay for their own
etc
Nothing against that, It's more of the fact that taxes tend to be done wrong and rich people pay the same level of tax as poor people.
I recently went to the hospital with chest pains. They hooked me up to a machine to test my heart, did two X-rays and gave me a physical exam. Nothing was seriously wrong but I do wonder how much that would have cost me had I been in America.
[QUOTE=Scot;48244227]I recently went to the hospital with chest pains. They hooked me up to a machine to test my heart, did two X-rays and gave me a physical exam. Nothing was seriously wrong but I do wonder how much that would have cost me had I been in America.[/QUOTE]
Probably atleast 200$
[QUOTE=Pigbear;48244272]Probably atleast 200$[/QUOTE]
An uninsured patient pays, on average, $1,500 for an EKG, possibly up to $3,000 (depends on location). Depending on the part X-rayed, he will be looking at a bill of between $200 to $400 per X-ray, possibly up to $1,000. The physical exam will probably cost a couple hundred more. In other words, that little visit would have cost him close to $3,000.
America's healthcare system is fucking broken.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48244309]An uninsured patient pays, on average, $1,500 for an EKG, possibly up to $3,000 (depends on location). Depending on the part X-rayed, he will be looking at a bill of between $200 to $400 per X-ray, possibly up to $1,000. The physical exam will probably cost a couple hundred more. In other words, that little visit would have cost him close to $3,000.
America's healthcare system is fucking broken.[/QUOTE]
holy shit
it's more fucked up than I thought
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48244309]An uninsured patient pays, on average, $1,500 for an EKG, possibly up to $3,000 (depends on location). Depending on the part X-rayed, he will be looking at a bill of between $200 to $400 per X-ray, possibly up to $1,000. The physical exam will probably cost a couple hundred more. In other words, that little visit would have cost him close to $3,000.
America's healthcare system is fucking broken.[/QUOTE]
damn. They gave me a big box of pain meds which I probably would have had to pay for too. If I were in america I wouldn't have gone.
I remember after getting in a car accident where I broke my nose, I actually genuinely considered not going to the hospital because I knew it would cost so damn much.
[QUOTE=Adius Shadow;48241390]Healthcare should be free. Nobody should have to pay for things that are in many cases, out of their control.
It's absolutely disgusting[/QUOTE]
Do what Singapore does.
Everyone has to pay to go to the Doctor, so that it will turn down small health problems that fade away in a day or two (Fever, Headache, I don't know but you get what i'm going for etc.) so that people won't clog up the Doctor's with fictionary or useless health problems.
However when you got serious Health Problems the state pays for it.
It cuts down on all the bullshit that clogs up the system and still encourages people to remain healthy in their regard, and helps them when they're struck by a disease or illness that isn't of their control or consequence.
I had a really nasty cough last winter that wouldn't go away. Fearing fluid in my lings I went to the hospital, flashed my provincial medical card and after a two hour wait, a quick exam and an x-ray I was given medication and asked to return if it persisted in a week.
When my Appendix failed two months later I walked into emerg, again flashed the card, got admitted for tests and checked by a doctor, then spent the day in a hospital bed for 12 hours, had the operation and was home again by 9PM.
The plus side to public healthcare is that pretty much all of it is free. The down side is that it can never be properly organized or staffed so the wait times are to the point that some people have died before they had their organ transplants.
[QUOTE=Keyblockor1;48244947]Do what Singapore does.
Everyone has to pay to go to the Doctor, so that it will turn down small health problems that fade away in a day or two (Fever, Headache, I don't know but you get what i'm going for etc.) so that people won't clog up the Doctor's with fictionary or useless health problems.
However when you got serious Health Problems the state pays for it.
It cuts down on all the bullshit that clogs up the system and still encourages people to remain healthy in their regard, and helps them when they're struck by a disease or illness that isn't of their control or consequence.[/QUOTE]
Here is a video about it. You aren't strictly accurate, but Singapore's system is good.
[video=youtube;WtuXrrEZsAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtuXrrEZsAg[/video]
[url=https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkfBg8ML-gIngk82SUbTp6Og_KkYfJ6oF]And for other countries, check here. He has Australia, Switzerland, Germany, England, France, Canada and the USA too.[/url]
[QUOTE=Keyblockor1;48244947]Do what Singapore does.
Everyone has to pay to go to the Doctor, so that it will turn down small health problems that fade away in a day or two (Fever, Headache, I don't know but you get what i'm going for etc.) so that people won't clog up the Doctor's with fictionary or useless health problems.
However when you got serious Health Problems the state pays for it.
It cuts down on all the bullshit that clogs up the system and still encourages people to remain healthy in their regard, and helps them when they're struck by a disease or illness that isn't of their control or consequence.[/QUOTE]
Not really, you still pay through the Medisave or Medishield, which is just Gov insuring your money in a bank account which you could only use to pay your medical bills.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;48244309]An uninsured patient pays, on average, $1,500 for an EKG, possibly up to $3,000 (depends on location). Depending on the part X-rayed, he will be looking at a bill of between $200 to $400 per X-ray, possibly up to $1,000. The physical exam will probably cost a couple hundred more. In other words, that little visit would have cost him close to $3,000.
America's healthcare system is fucking broken.[/QUOTE]
Fun story
My mom was abused as a child and in her marriage with my father, and contracted severe PTSD, depression, and anxiety. At one point she was extremely suicidally depressed but didnt want to do anything rash and put that burden and pain on my sister and I, but at the time we had no health insurance because we arent the wealthiest household, food and shelter had to come first. She was so desperate for some kind of help she went to the ER to get something, anything, to help with her depression. The visit took about 20~ minutes and the doctor talked to her and prescribed her about a weeks worth of an anti-depressant and a follow up with another doctor.
The visit cost about $1,500. Obviously we didn't have anywhere near that kind of money. Fast forward about a year or two, the company my mom worked for shut down, she got layed off and was given severance, she was supporting a household of 4 people (me, her, my sister, and my sisters boyfriend, both of which were inbetween jobs) and it was the only income we had, when they started garnishing her wages.
We had to file for bankruptcy because it was that or go homeless, but the bankruptcy lawyer cost about the same as the garnishment. I had to get the first job I could find to help the family, which ironically was also my first job ever because I was a week out of high school, and my sister had to quickly get a job too. On top of it all, we couldnt afford our car payments so our primary mode of transportation is about to be repossessed as well, which is going to make it a lot harder for work.
So don't ever let anyone ever tell you privatized medical industry and the united states healthcare as a whole isnt the most fucked up a broken system.
tl;dr healthcare fucked my family up
[QUOTE=pentium;48244983]When my Appendix failed two months later I walked into emerg, again flashed the card, got admitted for tests and checked by a doctor, then spent the day in a hospital bed for 12 hours, had the operation and was home again by 9PM.[/QUOTE]
I had something similar earlier in the year, my appendix ruptured requiring a ambulance to pick me up. Following the operation I had to spend a week in isolation at the hospital due to complications. I had to pay 180 bucks for the ambulance and thats it. :v:
And to think, now I feel guilty for all the broken bones, cuts, illness, treatments and facilities I've used all free of charge :/
Sorry you have that system guys
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;48245971]And to think, now I feel guilty for all the broken bones, cuts, illness, treatments and facilities I've used all free of charge :/
Sorry you have that system guys[/QUOTE]
don't feel guilty, just be thankful that you live somewhere with a sane line of thinking. any time i bring up free healthcare my dad thinks i'm a brainwashed socialist, and i don't know how people still believe that whilst simultaneously complaining about our current system. some serious cognitive dissonance up in hea
it's total bullshit and i don't know if it'll ever change any time soon.. and now i'm just preaching to the choir
[QUOTE=pentium;48244983] or staffed so the wait times are to the point that some people have died before they had their organ transplants.[/QUOTE]
I think this is still preferable to rich-people-get-transplants-and-poor-people-don't
[QUOTE=Maloof?;48250534]I think this is still preferable to rich-people-get-transplants-and-poor-people-don't[/QUOTE]
That's just Harper twisting arms or else you lose your license/get defunded.
I knew the US healthcare system was shit, but one of the things that sorta showed that they don't care about their patients is what happened to my girlfriend.
Backstory was, her dad and best friend both died six month apart, she was suffering badly (as anyone would) over it, her mum took her to the doctors and the doctor just gave her some anti-depressents. Made her even more depressed so they went back, she was simply told "If you go off them you will probably get suicidal". They just so happened to be very expensive as well.
Years went by of this, I met her and she would get depressed regularly, it was tough sure but she seemed pretty nice. Got together, she came out to Aus on a Working and holiday visa. Would continue to get very depressed and even suicidal easily.
I ended up coming home from early from work one day and took her to the Doctors. He told her to get off the anti-depressants, even just a few days after not taking them there was a noticeable difference, and as they left her system she just got better and happier than she had been for a long while.
Went back to the states to visit her parents for a month, had to go to the doctors for another reason. They asked if she needed a new dosage or her anti-depressants, when she told them she didn't take them anymore the doctor (another doctor than her previous one) went on about how dangerous it was her being off them and how she should start straight away.
It just made me absolutely dumbfounded that they could easily prescribe the wrong drugs, then when proven they made things worse by a doctor in another country where there's universal healthcare and continue to say she had to remain on them because it's dangerous for her to be off them. That was one thing that showed me just how lucky I had it when it came to access to universal healthcare.
Feel bad for you 'muricans.
Some more fucking retarded 'murican hospital bills
[t]http://i.imgur.com/ja9hRSW.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/5VXchaq.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/f43Cpzk.png[/t]
After looking at these American bills, the $1000 dental bill to get my wisdom teeth out doesn't seem so bad.
OC:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/fYKqgt7.png[/img]
[quote] A random graph generated by the configuration model. Models like this are used to simulate complex networks such as the Internet, World Wide Web and social networks [/quote]
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