[QUOTE=Lord_Skellig;26605612]I thought this way for a very long time, I'm not sure if I still do. The thing is, with true quantum randomness, the universe isn't predeterminable as previously thought, so if the free will exists, who knows what it is, but if it could influence the otherwise causeless quantum fluctuations, it could manifest as true free will.[/QUOTE]
As I understand it, quantum physics doesn't actually imply randomness, does it? I thought it just related to it being impossible (at least humanly, for now) to observe things on a quantum scale to any accurracy?
I, until recently, understood quantum physics as just being randomness, but I read up on it and it didn't seem that way. But maybe I just misunderstood it. Any physicists?
[editline]10th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Javyer;26607063]I'll post now and then I'll complete my idea.
"A human mind could never imagine something infinite except if something that is eternal put that idea in the human mind" [b]De Cart[/B][/QUOTE]
Descartes :saddowns:
Descartes argument really breaks down after the 2nd meditations. His argument for different levels of existence had... something to be desired, in my opinion.
I don't as everything I do is dictated by my past, knowledge,experiences, environment, senses and other things like that.
If it isn't real, then I'll just enjoy the illusion.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;26610523]As I understand it, quantum physics doesn't actually imply randomness, does it? I thought it just related to it being impossible (at least humanly, for now) to observe things on a quantum scale to any accurracy?[/QUOTE]
Uncertainty is an intrinsic property of quantum particles and not simple a measure of how shitty our methods of measurement are. As far as we can tell, the randomness that arises from quantum effects is actually randomness.
I do not believe in free will. Choices are only an illusion. free will is an illusion.
Your choices, they are electric impulses in your brain. nowhere in your brain is a "switch" that could be switched on a diffrent position by a magical force. That "switch" is controlled by electric impulses.
So basically, its not a switch, its a relay.
That relay is controlled by whats happening around you. For instance, me writing this post is because my eyes saw it. that made the relay conduct.
Im not really good at explaining things, but if you know something about electricity, im pretty sure you understand. Hell, i made a stupid picture.
[URL=http://filesmelt.com/][IMG]http://filesmelt.com/dl/explanationthingy.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[B]NO, IT DOESNT TELL YOU HOW HUMAN BRAIN WORKS[/B]
This is my way of just explaining a relay.
[editline]10th December 2010[/editline]
Oh, and forgot to mark the L.
Its that big black ball there.
[editline]10th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=K3inMitl3id;26610662]If it isn't real, then I'll just enjoy the illusion.[/QUOTE]
Your enjoyment is an illusion.
[QUOTE=Str4fe;26610755]Your enjoyment is an illusion.[/QUOTE]
I don't think so. If enjoyment is just a state the brain can be in (such as pain being c fibers firing), then it's very real (assuming the world is as we believe it is, I'm ignoring sceptical possibilities here)
[editline]10th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;26610739]Uncertainty is an intrinsic property of quantum particles and not simple a measure of how shitty our methods of measurement are. As far as we can tell, the randomness that arises from quantum effects is actually randomness.[/QUOTE]
I seee. Kind of. Part of me is hoping there's an explanation behind quantum theory that doesn't involve randomness. It kind of fucks with my perception of the universe. :saddowns:
Like in Sims?
[QUOTE=Robbobin;26611010]I don't think so. If enjoyment is just a state the brain can be in (such as pain being c fibers firing), then it's very real (assuming the world is as we believe it is, I'm ignoring sceptical possibilities here)[/QUOTE]
True, True. :golfclap:
I want more than anything in the world to believe in things like this, and part of my brain does. But that part of my brain gets washed over by my scientific brain. It's not fun to think about these things, they just torture and depress me, and depress me even more to know that the feeling of depression is also just a chemical reaction and an evolutionary adaptation.
[QUOTE=Asphyxia;26611751]I want more than anything in the world to believe in things like this, and part of my brain does. But that part of my brain gets washed over by my scientific brain. It's not fun to think about these things, they just torture and depress me, and depress me even more to know that the feeling of depression is also just a chemical reaction and an evolutionary adaptation.[/QUOTE]
:psyduck:
I find the fact we're just physical, biological machines to be a massively gratifying, humbling feeling. To think that exactly the same physical law defines our very consciousness and every beautiful thought I've ever had is the physical law that defines rocks and lumps of shit, it's just mindblowing.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;26605660]There's still no reason whatsoever to believe that we can affect the outcome of those events in some metaphysical way and quantum fluctuations play next to no part how our body works because of decoherence.[/QUOTE]
It's unlikely that we can affect these fluctuations, but it still does away with determinism, which is the basis for anti-freewill arguments.
[editline]12th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Robbobin;26611010]I seee. Kind of. Part of me is hoping there's an explanation behind quantum theory that doesn't involve randomness. It kind of fucks with my perception of the universe. :saddowns:[/QUOTE]
I know, it seems to go against all of science and logic that an effect can exist without a definite cause. Although I guess that's why science is an empirical discipline above a logical one, logic could be a purely human trait, and not necessarily how the universe works. Our common sense can not necessarily be trusted.
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