CoderHire

[MuteTM]

[QUOTE=code_gs;43218507]And maybe other users too? It'd give better responses to why the review was helpful/unhelpful.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like inviting flamewars between fans and critics, but a well-moderated discussion could possibly be good.

[c👌de_g🎷]

[QUOTE=MuteTM;43219235]Sounds like inviting flamewars between fans and critics, but a well-moderated discussion could possibly be good.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, badly rated reviews/comments should be hidden (still able to be read, but the use will have to open them) and maybe owners could be allowed to moderate the comments on a review to prevent flamewars?

[MuteTM]

[QUOTE=code_gs;43219274]Yeah, badly rated reviews/comments should be hidden (still able to be read, but the use will have to open them) and maybe owners could be allowed to moderate the comments on a review to prevent flamewars?[/QUOTE]

Depends on your definition of moderation. I'd honestly prefer them just using the report button to prevent removal of legitimate criticism (though those that have to deal with the reports might feel differently).

Hiding based on ratings (like many sites do) would be a good idea, I'd also be in favour sorting by what's viewed as "most helpful".

[editline]
[/editline]
Could you guys PLEASE give access to the script page for previous purchasers even if the developer's subscription has expired; it's screwing the customer (missing changelogs, information) for something outside of their control.

(Not sure if I typed that well enough for it to make sense)

[koz]

I think you should give people a fair warning before downloading that there are tracking scripts for coderhire in them.

hook.Add('Initialize','CH_S_fef02e74f8209522417390a308b82f66', function()
	http.Post('http://coderhire.com/api/script-statistics/usage/194/743/fef02e74f8209522417390a308b82f66/', {
		port = GetConVarString('hostport'),
		hostname = GetHostName()
	})
end)

I get that you guys are trying to get statistics on the scripts, but at least warn the customers before doing so.

[zerothefallen]

[QUOTE=koz;43222137]I think you should give people a fair warning before downloading that there are tracking scripts for coderhire in them.

hook.Add('Initialize','CH_S_fef02e74f8209522417390a308b82f66', function()
	http.Post('http://coderhire.com/api/script-statistics/usage/194/743/fef02e74f8209522417390a308b82f66/', {
		port = GetConVarString('hostport'),
		hostname = GetHostName()
	})
end)

I get that you guys are trying to get statistics on the scripts, but at least warn the customers before doing so.[/QUOTE]

Why. There isnt a single valid reason for not doing so.

[FPtje]

[QUOTE=zerothefallen;43222968]Why. There isnt a single valid reason for not doing so.[/QUOTE]
one like privacy?

[Netheous]

[QUOTE=FPtje;43223319]one like privacy?[/QUOTE]

Privacy for public servers?
Yeah, let's have that.

[koz]

[QUOTE=zerothefallen;43222968]Why. There isnt a single valid reason for not doing so.[/QUOTE]

I'm a big on privacy and don't appreciate a website gathering data on my private server without my permission. You can disagree with this all you want but this is my view on it. I'm pretty sure other people don't want their privacy being breached over coderhire's tracking codes.

Just suggesting to give users a warning if the coder opted for the tracking script to be provided with their product. A one time warning or even just a small notification that they can tick off just informing them that the script will be gathering data from their server.

[JayneHJKL]

[QUOTE=koz;43223525]I'm a big on privacy and don't appreciate a website gathering data on my private server without my permission. You can disagree with this all you want but this is my view on it. I'm pretty sure other people don't want their privacy being breached over coderhire's tracking codes.

Just suggesting to give users a warning if the coder opted for the tracking script to be provided with their product. A one time warning or even just a small notification that they can tick off just informing them that the script will be gathering data from their server.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it really matters to most people. If you are keen on privacy scour all code and remove anything you feel invades your privacy. If I decided to distribute code that would email myself chatlogs and you used it, that is your fault not mine.

your personal privacy most likely is already invaded in your browser, using technologies like ever cookie and tracking cookies. I also recall some clever reverse CSS lookups using link colors and a dictionary attack of websites.

The public world is not very private, so if you want more privacy that is your problem.

[FPtje]

[QUOTE=JayneHJKL;43223918]If I decided to distribute code that would email myself [b]chatlogs[/b] and you used it, that is your fault not mine.
[/quote]
Substitute "chatlogs" with "passwords".

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spyware[/url]

Spyware is definitely the end user's fault. No responsibility for the writer of it though, no the end user should have known.

[nickster50]

-snip- I need to stop posting stupid replies in the morning where I don't make any sense and god awful grammar.

[zerothefallen]

[QUOTE=nickster50;43224557]I aggree and its unessecery stress on the server to be tracking scripts.[/QUOTE]

No, it isnt. All we get is the name of your server ( HEY THATS PUBLIC ) and our server's IP. We're not saving rcon passwords or anything else. Plus, what stress? You dont even know lua coding at all, so uh

[editline]18th December 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=koz;43223525]I'm a big on privacy and don't appreciate a website gathering data on my private server without my permission. You can disagree with this all you want but this is my view on it. I'm pretty sure other people don't want their privacy being breached over coderhire's tracking codes.

Just suggesting to give users a warning if the coder opted for the tracking script to be provided with their product. A one time warning or even just a small notification that they can tick off just informing them that the script will be gathering data from their server.[/QUOTE]

your view is ignorant and completely skewed

[Phoenixf129]

[QUOTE=nickster50;43224557]I aggree and its unessecery stress on the server to be tracking scripts.[/QUOTE]
english plz.

Stress? So you're saying that the server's going to be stressed by a simple script that pushes minute data over HTTP? I think your server will be more stressed by the crap you put on it, not the statistics tracking.

TLDR; If you don't like the tracker guys, then either;
1. Don't buy from CoderHire
2. Remove it yourself
3. Learn to code yourself
4. Check CoderHire TOS.

It's really not your decision if you didn't create the script, we -[B][U]THE DEVELOPERS[/U][/B]- have the option to add statistics tracking so we can better our own scripts, and see how they're used- however [B][U]MODIFICATION[/U][/B] comes with the license, so by all means, change it yourself. So stop making a shit-storm about it when it's your problem, and you can fix it easily without bitching.

[_Undefined]

Please also note that our [url=http://coderhire.com/about/privacy]Privacy Policy[/url] states that we may collect non-personal identification information, and that by using the site you signify acceptance of the policy.

[FPtje]

[QUOTE=Phoenixf129;43224623]

TLDR; If you don't like the tracker, then either;
1. Don't buy from CoderHire
[highlight][url=http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#dismissal]Argument by dismissal[/url][/highlight]

2. Remove it yourself
[highlight][url=http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#dismissal]Argument by dismissal[/url][/highlight]

2. Remove it yourself
[highlight]Have a guess at the kind of argument this is. Are you perhaps [i]dismissing[/i] the fact that there is information gathering code in there in the first place?[/highlight]

3. Learn to code yourself
[highlight]same argument as #1.[/highlight]

4. Check CH TOS.
[highlight]I'll be honest and say that this one isn't fallacious. Cheers.
I still argue that the user should be notified more directly.[/highlight]

It's not really your decision if you didn't [b]create[/b] the script,
[highlight]It [b]is[/b] his decision, for he [i]runs[/i] the script.[/highlight]

we -THE DEVELOPERS- have the option to add statistics tracking so we can better our own scripts, and see how they're used-
[/quote]
That's fine, but it's really a common standard to [i]ask[/i] the user whether a piece of software can send information to a server. Think of Chrome when it asks about usage data and crash logs. Think of websites where modern browsers ask whether they can use location data. Think of Android that asks for permission on sending anonymous statistics and data.

The reason why they do it is because they respect people's privacy. The point here is that coderhire doesn't.

[QUOTE=Phoenixf129;43224623]
however [B][U]MODIFICATION[/U][/B] comes with the license, so by all means, change it yourself. So stop making a shit-storm about it when it's your problem, and you can fix it easily without bitching.[/quote]
This discussion aside, seriously, you should work on your argumentation skills. This is the [i]sixth[/i] time you're using the same fallacy in [i]one post[/i].

[Netheous]

[QUOTE=FPtje;43225158]Think of Chrome when it asks about usage data and crash logs.[...][/QUOTE]
Yeah, but mostly nobody reads it and it would be the same with coderhire.
Although... there is cash involved in it so maybe they'll be more careful.

[aStonedPenguin]

[QUOTE=koz;43223525]I'm a big on privacy and don't appreciate a website gathering data on my private server without my permission. You can disagree with this all you want but this is my view on it. I'm pretty sure other people don't want their privacy being breached over coderhire's tracking codes.

Just suggesting to give users a warning if the coder opted for the tracking script to be provided with their product. A one time warning or even just a small notification that they can tick off just informing them that the script will be gathering data from their server.[/QUOTE]

Anyone with half a clue should be able to delete it themselves.

[FPtje]

I think the best solution is to put a small notice on the scripts purchase page. This way
- The fact that it's there wouldn't be hidden far away in a privacy statement
- You're sure that people know that it's there

Really, this would satisfy me in my privacy concerns.
The way people give consent now is very implicit. That's why Koz went [i]"hey I didn't know about that!"[/i] when he found the code.

Collecting the information itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Google does it in Chrome and Android, and there are plenty of apps and programs that do the same. All the genuine ones ask explicit consent, though. Usually with a dialog. Since a dialog asking for permission is a shite option in GMod, I reckon it's best to just put a small but clear text somewhere in the purchasing progress. It would serve the same purpose as the dialog, and people would still know.

[editline]18th December 2013[/editline]

[QUOTE=StonedPenguin;43225686]Anyone with half a clue should be able to delete it themselves.[/QUOTE]
Do I need to refute this argument a seventh time?

[zerothefallen]

[QUOTE=FPtje;43227547]I think the best solution is to put a small notice on the scripts purchase page. This way
- The fact that it's there wouldn't be hidden far away in a privacy statement
- You're sure that people know that it's there

Really, this would satisfy me in my privacy concerns.
The way people give consent now is very implicit. That's why Koz went [i]"hey I didn't know about that!"[/i] when he found the code.

Collecting the information itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. Google does it in Chrome and Android, and there are plenty of apps and programs that do the same. All the genuine ones ask explicit consent, though. Usually with a dialog. Since a dialog asking for permission is a shite option in GMod, I reckon it's best to just put a small but clear text somewhere in the purchasing progress. It would serve the same purpose as the dialog, and people would still know.

[editline]18th December 2013[/editline]

Do I need to refute this argument a seventh time?[/QUOTE]

Are you honestly saying collecting IP's of PUBLIC servers is an invasion of privacy?

[Remscar]

The reason there is the tracking system in place is to figure out who is leaking scripts. The only information that is being gathered is the server's IP, the server's port, and the user ID of who originally purchased the script. This is hardly personal information and is not an invasion of privacy. There should be nothing on the script page indicating that the script is being tracked, that would tip potential leakers off and they would find and remove the code.

[JohnnyCrazy]

[QUOTE=Remscar;43228264]The reason there is the tracking system in place is to figure out who is leaking scripts. The only information that is being gathered is the server's IP, the server's port, and the user ID of who originally purchased the script. This is hardly personal information and is not an invasion of privacy. There should be nothing on the script page indicating that the script is being tracked, that would tip potential leakers off and they would find and remove the code.[/QUOTE]

Which leaker would be so dumb keeping that Code in his Script?

[aStonedPenguin]

[QUOTE=johnnyaka;43228738]Which leaker would be so dumb keeping that Code in his Script?[/QUOTE]

Considering a large amount of people use coderhire not out of convenience but because they don't know lua I would have to say quite a few.

[zerothefallen]

[QUOTE=johnnyaka;43228738]Which leaker would be so dumb keeping that Code in his Script?[/QUOTE]

dude, 75% of the gmod community would look at this code

[lua]
if SERVER then
while true do end
end[/lua]

and would have NO clue what it does

[aStonedPenguin]

[QUOTE=zerothefallen;43228762]dude, 75% of the gmod community would look at this code

[lua]
if SERVER then
while true do end
end[/lua]

and would have NO clue what it does[/QUOTE]

That's a pretty conservative estimate there.

[c👌de_g🎷]

[QUOTE=zerothefallen;43228762]dude, 75% of the gmod community would look at this code

[lua]
if SERVER then
while true do end
end[/lua]

and would have NO clue what it does[/QUOTE]

More than half would probably think if SERVER then only worked on dedicated servers.

[JohnnyCrazy]

aw right, forgot about the Community :v:

[Splittykitty]

[QUOTE=zerothefallen;43228014]Are you honestly saying collecting IP's of PUBLIC servers is an invasion of privacy?[/QUOTE]

While I have no qualms about it myself, you can't assume everyone getting these scripts are using a public server. Some people have private servers and may not want the information given out because of that, but that is the only reason I can think of them having a fuss over a piece of code that tries to track who is using the codes unless they were a leaker or using leaked scripts themselves.

[zerothefallen]

[QUOTE=Splittykitty;43230051]While I have no qualms about it myself, you can't assume everyone getting these scripts are using a public server. Some people have private servers and may not want the information given out because of that, but that is the only reason I can think of them having a fuss over a piece of code that tries to track who is using the codes unless they were a leaker or using leaked scripts themselves.[/QUOTE]

And who cares if the server has a password? If the server has QAC, and they didnt pay for it. They shouldnt have it. Passworded or not. PS Passworded servers still show up on the server browser. Barely private.

[Splittykitty]

[QUOTE=zerothefallen;43230561]And who cares if the server has a password? If the server has QAC, and they didnt pay for it. They shouldnt have it. Passworded or not. PS Passworded servers still show up on the server browser. Barely private.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you [i]entirely[/i] there but that was not the point I was making. I was moreso just pointing out they you kept talking about public servers as if private server owners didn't exist as well. Especially since you kept putting emphasis on public. I get it, they show up in the server list, but they're still private servers.

[Phoenixf129]

[QUOTE=Splittykitty;43232791]I agree with you [i]entirely[/i] there but that was not the point I was making. I was moreso just pointing out they you kept talking about public servers as if private server owners didn't exist as well. Especially since you kept putting emphasis on public. I get it, they show up in the server list, but they're still private servers.[/QUOTE]

Public OR Private, it doesn't matter.

If they're running code they don't have legal/licensed access to, then they shouldn't be running it, end of.

This very shortly turned into an argument about leakers, from statistics tracking. Stats tracking ISN'T just for checking leakers you know, it has beneficial advantages for developers as they can see where/how/what situation their code is running in, and better it for the mass.