A Final Plea for a more Robust & Intelligent Server List - Developers

My assistance is no longer necessary.

[QUOTE=MadParakeet;50872855]My assistance is no longer necessary.[/QUOTE] Oh what happened? Did it get approved.

[t]http://puu.sh/qApJc/ac9419aff8.jpg[/t] working on a criteria area

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50879737][t]http://puu.sh/qApJc/ac9419aff8.jpg[/t] working on a criteria area[/QUOTE] Is this just a concept or an in-game work in progress?

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50879737][t]http://puu.sh/qApJc/ac9419aff8.jpg[/t] working on a criteria area[/QUOTE] This looks awesome!

I only skimmed over this thread so my apologies if I missed something, but has anyone thought of an idea that actually fills the criteria? If: - I (as a server owner) can maliciously appear under categories that I shouldn't actually be in - I (as a client) can't effectively navigate like I did before Then it doesn't help anything. It seems to me like a lot of people are just ignoring the requirements of the server browser and posting solutions to their gamemodes having no players.

i like this already my server has no enforcement of how serious roleplay should be so i guess that means i should list myself under all roleplay as well as competitive since it's pretty much tdm 1/3 of the time,

[QUOTE=StonedPenguin;50885856]i like this already my server has no enforcement of how serious roleplay should be so i guess that means i should list myself under all roleplay as well as competitive since it's pretty much tdm 1/3 of the time,[/QUOTE] I definitely plan adding many more categories and search criteria so that players could find the best server to fit their needs. [editline]14th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=kpjVideo;50883231]Is this just a concept or an in-game work in progress?[/QUOTE] Concept - I think it would be beneficial that we would at least reach a consensus as to what would create the best user experience with the layout of the UI. If someone ever plans to code it, I will happily release the PSD so that they can use it as a framework.

[QUOTE=>>oubliette<<;50885831]I only skimmed over this thread so my apologies if I missed something, but has anyone thought of an idea that actually fills the criteria? If: - I (as a server owner) can maliciously appear under categories that I shouldn't actually be in - I (as a client) can't effectively navigate like I did before Then it doesn't help anything. It seems to me like a lot of people are just ignoring the requirements of the server browser and posting solutions to their gamemodes having no players.[/QUOTE] Given that you can only pick one category for your server, miscategorizing will only hurt your playercounts.

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50879737][t]http://puu.sh/qApJc/ac9419aff8.jpg[/t] working on a criteria area[/QUOTE] Absolutely awesome concept art (better than the half-assed shit I made)! Especially love the little 'Featured' button on the left (if you guys caught it), and the dual-category style! Out of curiosity, is this based on my previous post, here? [QUOTE=Kemerd;50829450]Make categories more like categories. Have a set amount of categories defined by the developers (just like addons), you can see the server's gamemodes as you would the name or map-- on the serverlist itself. For example: - Roleplay - Serious Roleplay - Party Games (things like murder, prophunt, other round-based games) In your gamemode.txt you'd just define the category. This would lead to more exposure to servers that try "new" gamemodes while still providing a sorted experience. For example, the issue you see in serious roleplaying where CW: HL2RP being the only section anyone ever goes to, even if they're looking for Stalker or Zombie roleplay. A take-all section would solve this. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XdgpxET.png[/IMG] Possible have a way to request for more? Have the categories grabbed from a server at Facepunch, and the servers themselves gathered clientsided? Or gathered from a Facepunch API?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Kemerd;50886618]Absolutely awesome concept art (better than the half-assed shit I made)! Out of curiosity, is this based on my previous post, here?[/QUOTE] It is! I plan on implementing the ideas suggested by Neth** as well when I get the time. I am completely open to criticism.

[QUOTE=>>oubliette<<;50885831]I only skimmed over this thread so my apologies if I missed something, but has anyone thought of an idea that actually fills the criteria? If: - I (as a server owner) can maliciously appear under categories that I shouldn't actually be in - I (as a client) can't effectively navigate like I did before Then it doesn't help anything. It seems to me like a lot of people are just ignoring the requirements of the server browser and posting solutions to their gamemodes having no players.[/QUOTE] I feel like with what has been concepted above (if you look at the art) wouldn't have room for abuse. A DarkRP server under "Serious Roleplay" wouldn't be joined, because people aren't looking for Semi-Serious Roleplay when they check out that category. It's vice-versa. As a client, I can see what you might mean, but this is better for the longetivity of the Garrysmod server community as a whole, in general. There would be some tradeoffs. Although I would like to suggest something like a gamemode filter within these categories, I feel like we'd start all back over with taking other gamemodes and renaming them to get them to be seen-- but then again, even Categories + one-time use filters would be better than what we have now, because you can at least see a server before you decide to filter. Now that I think about it, though, a better idea would be to just list the server's gamemode as small as a server's map on the actual list. EDIT: [QUOTE=dimitrik129;50886626]It is! I plan on implementing the ideas suggested by Noi as well when I get the time. I am completely open to criticism.[/QUOTE] By the way, your concept art for Monolith Roleplay has been amazing thus far, keep it up! :D

Perhaps adding a random category would help get some exposure out there as well. Just fill it up with random server, and populate the list. That way if someone is bored, and not sure what they're looking for they might find something that suits their fancy.

[QUOTE=Nookyava;50886649]Perhaps adding a random category would help get some exposure out there as well. Just fill it up with random server, and populate the list. That way if someone is bored, and not sure what they're looking for they might find something that suits their fancy.[/QUOTE] That might tie into the quick-play, no? EDIT: Maybe have "quick-play options" that you set when you press quick-play. Eg. player count or gamemode

[QUOTE=Kemerd;50886725]That might tie into the quick-play, no? EDIT: Maybe have "quick-play options" that you set when you press quick-play. Eg. player count or gamemode[/QUOTE] I am currently working on a criteria section that will do exactly that. I'll be posting it soon.

[QUOTE=Ott;50886265]Given that you can only pick one category for your server, miscategorizing will only hurt your playercounts.[/QUOTE] Is there a mixed list of categories or are server owners allowed to choose whatever they please? The latter is bad because there will be loads of bullshitrp categories, the former doesn't seem to solve issues with helping new gamemodes.

[QUOTE=>>oubliette<<;50887282]Is there a mixed list of categories or are server owners allowed to choose whatever they please? The latter is bad because there will be loads of bullshitrp categories, the former doesn't seem to solve issues with helping new gamemodes.[/QUOTE] Hardcoded whitelist of categories.

[t]http://puu.sh/qBQpn/cd2635b2eb.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=dimitrik129;50887711][t]http://puu.sh/qBKEN/ac24ef3410.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Why would you want to filter servers that are below a certain ping?

[QUOTE=Ott;50887952]Why would you want to filter servers that are below a certain ping?[/QUOTE] To find servers nearby you.

[QUOTE=Ott;50887952]Why would you want to filter servers that are below a certain ping?[/QUOTE] I use the max ping function on nearly ever server filter for every game I have so that I am not flooded with listings that are unplayable and thus redundant. Edit: Oh wait - just realized you're referring to the minimum ping section. Yeah - not sure why I added that. Fixed.

Filter in the scientific sense means "to remove".

Why do we want to keep some form of categories? Is there a good reason not to drop the idea of categories altogether and go with one big list that sorts servers? The thing with a white list of categories is that people can create gamemodes that fit none of the categories. Even if people can suggest categories, it's a pain for gamemode developers with an original idea. Think of gmod tower, which is technically all four categories in the screenshot. Same with metastruct, which has both sandbox and RP. Also, there's one big tradeoff with these categories: a too generic category might have too many completely different gamemodes that are practically unrelated. A too specific category will have very few different gamemodes, practically giving one specific gamemode dominance. Both can be seen in the categories of the screenshot: the "competitive" category would hold shit ranging from melon racer, chimera hunt, barrel shoots hiding thing to all deathmatch gamemodes like css based, tf2 based to a gamemode where you shoot each other's anusses to win maximum points. On the other hand, the semi-serious category is basically the category of DarkRP and its renames. Even if you find a perfect set of categories that fairly divide the currently existing gamemodes, that shit changes over time. Gamemodes are created and released, others die out and the popularity of gamemodes can change drastically. A set of categories that would be perfect now cannot remain perfect forever, unless they heavily influence gamemode authors in their decision on what kind of gamemode they want to work on. Surely that is not desirable.

Typically what I tend to do anyway is use the legacy browser and sort by gamemode. I like looking for those interesting ones.

[QUOTE=FPtje;50888108]Why do we want to keep some form of categories? Is there a good reason not to drop the idea of categories altogether and go with one big list that sorts servers?[/quote] Because we're trying to find a compromise between good for servers (alphabetically ordered chaos) and good for players (gamemode selection). [QUOTE=FPtje;50888108]The thing with a white list of categories is that people can create gamemodes that fit none of the categories. Even if people can suggest categories, it's a pain for gamemode developers with an original idea. Think of gmod tower, which is technically all four categories in the screenshot.[/quote] Minigames. [QUOTE=FPtje;50888108]Same with metastruct, which has both sandbox and RP.[/quote] I'd call Metastruct social; most of the gameplay is just running around in circles looking at each other's PAC/lua. And nobody roleplays. [QUOTE=FPtje;50888108]Also, there's one big tradeoff with these categories: a too generic category might have too many completely different gamemodes that are practically unrelated. A too specific category will have very few different gamemodes, practically giving one specific gamemode dominance. Both can be seen in the categories of the screenshot: the "competitive" category would hold shit ranging from melon racer, chimera hunt, barrel shoots hiding thing to all deathmatch gamemodes like css based, tf2 based to a gamemode where you shoot each other's anusses to win maximum points. On the other hand, the semi-serious category is basically the category of DarkRP and its renames.[/quote] Reminder that those are placeholder categories. It's a proof of concept, and the final list will end up looking like the most popular Steam tags. That said, I agree with you for the four specific categories he picked out. [QUOTE=FPtje;50888108]Even if you find a perfect set of categories that fairly divide the currently existing gamemodes, that shit changes over time. Gamemodes are created and released, others die out and the popularity of gamemodes can change drastically. A set of categories that would be perfect now cannot remain perfect forever, unless they heavily influence gamemode authors in their decision on what kind of gamemode they want to work on. Surely that is not desirable.[/QUOTE] The purpose of categories is to level the playing field; instead of a mountain of DarkRP and stock gamemodes, with smaller gamemodes falling into the valley, there are many other separate areas with more level ground. Sure, if you're going to make a semi-serious roleplay gamemode, you're going to have to compete with DarkRP, and it won't be easy. Any other category (aside from whatever TTT ends up in—mystery? elimination? stealth?) will have much more homogenized player counts at first. Of course, new mountains will rise, but your gamemode won't get punished for being something different than the popular gamemodes we have now. Trying to categorize TTT has made me realize that we're going to need cover all our bases when we decide on a list, and the developers will need to keep an active watch on any new gamemode requests.

My criticism is more generic than the specific categories for metastruct and gmtower and the four categories shown in the screenshot. Also, if the goal is leveling the playing field, doesn't a valve based server list do that already? Sure the DarkRP edits will hold the majority of the list, but all gamemodes are equal. A DarkRP rename is as likely to be joined as a completely unique gamemode. There is no need to put DarkRP on your server because that doesn't make your server much more likely to be joined (leaving out the people who would join DarkRP because they're specifically looking for servers with it).

[QUOTE=FPtje;50888201]My criticism is more generic than the specific categories for metastruct and gmtower and the four categories shown in the screenshot. Also, if the goal is leveling the playing field, doesn't a valve based server list do that already? Sure the DarkRP edits will hold the majority of the list, but all gamemodes are equal. A DarkRP rename is as likely to be joined as a completely unique gamemode. There is no need to put DarkRP on your server because that doesn't make your server much more likely to be joined (leaving out the people who would join DarkRP because they're specifically looking for servers with it).[/QUOTE] But we're trying to find a compromise between good for servers (alphabetically/ping ordered chaos) and good for players (gamemode selection). A single list works—we've had that for years—but now we're trying to improve on Garry's server browser instead of just reverting it back to how it was. And we've tried that too; Garry vetoed it.

What you guys are doing is just turning the gamemodes into categories and adding a quick play button, This won't ever happen.

[QUOTE=Ott;50888214]But we're trying to find a compromise between good for servers (alphabetically/ping ordered chaos) and good for players (gamemode selection). A single list works—we've had that for years—but now we're trying to improve on Garry's server browser instead of just reverting it back to how it was. And we've tried that too; Garry vetoed it.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call it reverting if you create a completely new server browser merely based on the concept of the valve server list. You can make it fancy as fuck with fuzzy search and all that. Also, what do you mean Garry vetoed it?

[QUOTE=FPtje;50888292]I wouldn't call it reverting if you create a completely new server browser merely based on the concept of the valve server list. You can make it fancy as fuck with fuzzy search and all that. Also, what do you mean Garry vetoed it?[/QUOTE] [DEL] Maybe a proper server list would give a new push to Garry's Mod, which means Garry would have t[/DEL] Maybe simply he just doesn't want to continue the development of Garry's Mod altogether?