Next Update v5 - April 2016 Update is out! - Developers

[QUOTE=vrej;50397018]Now I don't have anything against OSX users, but honestly it's their fault for buying it.[/QUOTE] it's the customer's fault for assuming that a product they bought would continue to support the platforms that it advertised itself as supporting good logic. [editline]26th May 2016[/editline] i'm really starting to see why garry had such a stubborn attitude towards the garry's mod community when he still maintained it himself.

[QUOTE=Joeyl10;50397391]it's the customer's fault for assuming that a product they bought would continue to support the platforms that it advertised itself as supporting good logic. [editline]26th May 2016[/editline] i'm really starting to see why garry had such a stubborn attitude towards the garry's mod community when he still maintained it himself.[/QUOTE] OSX isn't even at fault here. OSX has been a 64 bit OS for years, just like Linux. Even then, no decision made by Apple has direct effect on this limitation. If anyone's at fault here, it's CEF for not supporting 32 bit applications on OSX. People aren't at fault for buying a mac because they wouldn't know and/or wouldn't have cared that in the future someone would try to implement CEF in GMod. Apple aren't at fault because it just so happens that it's [I]their[/I] platform that has limited support by some other software company's software. CEF doesn't support 32 bits applications on OSX. Blaming the people who have OSX is dumb. Blaming Apple is even dumber. Apple don't have a say in this. The only blame Apple can have here is a shit API preventing CEF from supporting 32 bits applications, but even then it would be indirect blame.

[QUOTE=Joeyl10;50397391]it's the customer's fault for assuming that a product they bought would continue to support the platforms that it advertised itself as supporting good logic. [/QUOTE] That's not really much different than when gmod13 came out and the computer I had played gmod on for years could barely run it anymore. I guarantee the percentage of players in that same situation was way higher than the percentage of players currently using a mac.

[QUOTE=vrej;50397018]Windows = Gaming, Mac != Gaming[/QUOTE] No OS was made for gaming; that's a pretty outlandish statement. Games just support windows more because that is the majority operating system, but Garry's Mod has also followed a federalistic supporting model: the minority holds rights to features and a playable game just as much as the majority. Also, what other "features" have been lost to OSX?

This is a place you can show bugs, right? I used SetCaretPos with a number bigger than the current input text... then this happened: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TtnPux0.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=RonanZer0;50397845]This is a place you can show bugs, right? I used SetCaretPos with a number bigger than the current input text... then this happened: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/TtnPux0.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] this would be hilarious if it is what i think it is which is a memory reading exploit [editline]a[/editline] wow i just realized how dumb this makes me sound, sorry guys!

Now this is probably a stupid question, but how hard would it be to do a 32 bit OSX build, even though it isn't "officially supported"? Is there some underlying reason why it isn't supported?

[QUOTE=Joeyl10;50397391]it's the customer's fault for assuming that a product they bought would continue to support the platforms that it advertised itself as supporting good logic. [editline]26th May 2016[/editline] i'm really starting to see why garry had such a stubborn attitude towards the garry's mod community when he still maintained it himself.[/QUOTE] Please reread what I said, I said that GMod should never have even attempted and advertised that they support OSX in the first place. [editline]27th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=code_gs;50397833]No OS was made for gaming; that's a pretty outlandish statement. Games just support windows more because that is the majority operating system, but Garry's Mod has also followed a federalistic supporting model: the minority holds rights to features and a playable game just as much as the majority. Also, what other "features" have been lost to OSX?[/QUOTE] No shit, where in my comment did I say Windows was specially made for gaming? Windows supports gaming because it has a lot better hardware support then overpriced Macs that can barely handle Minecraft on lowest graphics. Also an example of a lost feature: Multicore rendering. If I remember correctly, it was mostly removed because of OSX users. [editline]27th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Revenge282;50397058]I don't necessarily agree that just because Mac is not synonymous with "gaming" that we should throw it aside. But at the same time, if something of this caliber is pending, and the only thing holding it back is Mac, then I think we should go ahead with it. See my very rough math below:[/QUOTE] But being held back because of them is really a stupid move, I don't even understand why after GMod 13 they started advertising and trying to add support for OSX. [editline]27th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Robotboy655;50397077]Right.[/QUOTE] Care to explain how my point was incorrect? Oh right, you can't. Just like last year, you couldn't explain why Garry's Mod was being held back for OSX. [editline]27th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=FPtje;50397455]OSX isn't even at fault here. OSX has been a 64 bit OS for years, just like Linux. Even then, no decision made by Apple has direct effect on this limitation. If anyone's at fault here, it's CEF for not supporting 32 bit applications on OSX. People aren't at fault for buying a mac because they wouldn't know and/or wouldn't have cared that in the future someone would try to implement CEF in GMod. Apple aren't at fault because it just so happens that it's [I]their[/I] platform that has limited support by some other software company's software. CEF doesn't support 32 bits applications on OSX. Blaming the people who have OSX is dumb. Blaming Apple is even dumber. Apple don't have a say in this. The only blame Apple can have here is a shit API preventing CEF from supporting 32 bits applications, but even then it would be indirect blame.[/QUOTE] Yep which is why I said it's not Apple's fault, but the people that bought it and knew the consequences. But again you didn't even bother to read what I said just like everyone else around here.

[QUOTE=vrej;50399731]No shit, where in my comment did I say Windows was specially made for gaming? Windows supports gaming because it has a lot better hardware support then overpriced Macs that can barely handle Minecraft on lowest graphics. Also an example of a lost feature: Multicore rendering. If I remember correctly, it was mostly removed because of OSX users.[/QUOTE] My sister owns an iMac which handles games just fine. It's just because you're used to seeing games on a Mac laptop or older systems which aren't meant to be gaming computers. And no, multicore rendering didn't work on GM13 for some reason not related to OS.

[QUOTE=code_gs;50399815]My sister owns an iMac which handles games just fine. It's just because you're used to seeing games on a Mac laptop or older systems which aren't meant to be gaming computers. And no, multicore rendering didn't work on GM13 for some reason not related to OS.[/QUOTE] But wasn't one of the major reasons of it being removed is because of OSX? I know there was few problems with Windows as well, but I think Garry didn't bother to fix it because it was completely broken on OSX?

[QUOTE=vrej;50399731] No shit, where in my comment did I say Windows was specially made for gaming? Windows supports gaming because it has a lot better hardware support then overpriced Macs that can barely handle Minecraft on lowest graphics. Also an example of a lost feature: [b]Multicore rendering. If I remember correctly, it was mostly removed because of OSX users.[/b][/quote] lol no. do you understand the complexities of multithreaded applications, let alone the consequences of running a non-threadsafe language like lua within a multithreaded application? try again. ps: macs run games like gmod fine and they certainly run minecraft fine. they drivers running them might not be as fast as windows but they're not completely incapable. [QUOTE=vrej;50399731] But being held back because of them is really a stupid move, I don't even understand why after GMod 13 they started advertising and trying to add support for OSX.[/quote] because source added support for macs and the semi-recent release of a linux srcds for gmod meant that gmod handled unix operating systems and filesystems better. awesomium wasn't the big issue it was now back then. hindsight's 20/20. [QUOTE=vrej;50399731] Care to explain how my point was incorrect? Oh right, you can't. Just like last year, you couldn't explain why Garry's Mod was being held back for OSX.[/quote] your point is incorrect because you're throwing around opinion as fact and making statements that are objectively false. macs can handle gmod fine, it's a matter of a third party library not supporting 32-bit applications and the limitations of the source engine mean that we can't just move the binary to 64-bit. it has absolutely fuck all to do with the operating system itself. [QUOTE=vrej;50399731] Yep which is why I said it's not Apple's fault, but the people that bought it and knew the consequences. But again you didn't even bother to read what I said just like everyone else around here.[/QUOTE] no it's not apple's fault or garry's fault and it's certainly not the fucking consumer's fault for not being educated about how computer architecture works. maybe the developers of cef are responsible but os x doesn't prioritize backwards compat with old processors in the way that windows does though so i can hardly blame them. it's an unfortunate complication with cross platform support. instead of throwing around an uneducated opinion like you're the brightest motherfucker around consider the fact that if we had the benefit of using newer better technologies all the time without a single hiccup we sure as fuck wouldn't be on source anymore. shit doesn't always pan out in software development as it turns out.

[QUOTE=vrej;50399731] But again you didn't even bother to read what I said just like everyone else around here.[/QUOTE] Literally everyone didn't bother to read what you said? I think it's more likely that you failed to communicate your point. Before blaming literally everyone for anything, seriously consider that you may have made a mistake yourself. Your claim seems to be that GMod never should have gotten support for OSX, because of supposed troubles. This is irrelevant in a discussion about something that is to be added in an update. Garry could not have foreseen that CEF would be troublesome to implement in OSX simply because CEF wasn't in the picture yet. Besides, any argument to drop support for OSX completely belongs to an entirely different discussion, one that I personally think would be ridiculous from the start. Also, you're literally stating that it's the fault of people who bought an OSX device. Literally under the quote where I explain how blaming the people buying OSX are not at fault for CEF not supporting 32 bits applications on it, and then you accuse me of not reading your post?

Minor question - anyone know why the '&' character of some fonts doesn't seem to display whatsoever, no matter what you do, [URL="http://i.imgur.com/fCr0zqu.png"]even though it IS a valid character of the font[/URL]? For example: [CODE] local p = vgui.Create( 'DFrame' ) p:SetSize(500,200) p:Center() p:MakePopup() local t = vgui.Create( 'DLabel', p ) t:SetText( 'The symbol should be here > & <' ) t:SetFont( 'DermaLarge' ) t:Dock( FILL ) [/CODE] Run that and you can see it doesn't display. I tried using the 'extended' option when creating the font (with no luck), so I guess it's a game bug, which is why I posted it here. Any fixes?

[QUOTE=MPan1;50400175]Minor question - anyone know why the '&' character of some fonts doesn't seem to display whatsoever, no matter what you do, [URL="http://i.imgur.com/fCr0zqu.png"]even though it IS a valid character of the font[/URL]? For example: [CODE] local p = vgui.Create( 'DFrame' ) p:SetSize(500,200) p:Center() p:MakePopup() local t = vgui.Create( 'DLabel', p ) t:SetText( 'The symbol should be here > & <' ) t:SetFont( 'DermaLarge' ) t:Dock( FILL ) [/CODE] Run that and you can see it doesn't display. I tried using the 'extended' option when creating the font (with no luck), so I guess it's a game bug, which is why I posted it here. Any fixes?[/QUOTE] Use the ＆ instead :v:

[QUOTE=vrej;50399731]I don't even understand why [B]after GMod 13[/B] they started advertising and trying to add support for OSX.[/QUOTE] Are you mixing up OS X and Linux? OS X support arrived years [B]before[/B] GMod 13.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;50382828]It was doing it with TDM cars specifically, if you wanted to try it out. Basically, SetColor would change the color of the entire entity, rather than actually following the alpha-masked areas like it should.[/QUOTE] That one took a while. Material proxies weren't able to override $color when threaded rendering was enabled. Now, any of the mathematical proxies can. It's a miracle it worked even when using a single core. [code] "$colorfix" "{r g b}" "Proxies" { "Equals" { srcVar1 $colorfix resultVar $color } } [/code]

[QUOTE=MPan1;50400175]Minor question - anyone know why the '&' character of some fonts doesn't seem to display whatsoever, no matter what you do, [URL="http://i.imgur.com/fCr0zqu.png"]even though it IS a valid character of the font[/URL]? For example: [CODE] local p = vgui.Create( 'DFrame' ) p:SetSize(500,200) p:Center() p:MakePopup() local t = vgui.Create( 'DLabel', p ) t:SetText( 'The symbol should be here > & <' ) t:SetFont( 'DermaLarge' ) t:Dock( FILL ) [/CODE] Run that and you can see it doesn't display. I tried using the 'extended' option when creating the font (with no luck), so I guess it's a game bug, which is why I posted it here. Any fixes?[/QUOTE] It's definitely something with the source vgui stuff, slashes don't work either in sourcemods

When will "IsMounted" be fixed for Dedis?

Instead of urging for days with you guys just like last year, I might as well end this here. The argument isn't gonna get anywhere. In concludion you guys want to keep Mac support and sacrifice many features/improvements. I have nothing aganist it, everyone has their own opinions, I just wanted to give my opinion as well. It's up to the devs to decide, so no reason to continue the argument.

[QUOTE=vrej;50401238]In concludion you guys want to keep Mac support and sacrifice many features/improvements.[/QUOTE] What "many features/improvements"? From what I've read the only improvement missing would be CEF, and it isn't even a Mac issue, it's a CEF issue for not supporting it anymore. Also I don't know if this would be really up to the devs to be completely honest. The game is advertised to run on Mac, and so completely removing support for it would like stealing 10 dollars from the people who paid for the game to use on Mac. I feel like something along that line would go horribly wrong

[QUOTE=deinemudda32;50401127]When will "IsMounted" be fixed for Dedis?[/QUOTE] It's not broken.

[QUOTE=Robotboy655;50401274]It's not broken.[/QUOTE] Then why is the Flechette Gun spawnable in a dedicated server without Half-Life 2: Episode 2, when it is not in a Listen One or the SinglePlayer? The 2nd line of the Flechette Gun says following: [lua]if ( !IsMounted( "ep2" ) ) then return end[/lua] Which should mean it should not initialize, which it does.

All games are considered mounted on dedicated server because there is literally no way of knowing if they actually are mounted or not on dedicated servers. This is not the same on game clients.

[QUOTE=Robotboy655;50401439]All games are considered mounted on dedicated server because there is literally no way of knowing if they actually are mounted or not on dedicated servers. This is not the same on game clients.[/QUOTE] Then check if the Flechette Model exists instead. I don't know if that works, but there is a mount.cfg which should leave some footprints.

[QUOTE=Willox;50400494]That one took a while. Material proxies weren't able to override $color when threaded rendering was enabled. Now, any of the mathematical proxies can. It's a miracle it worked even when using a single core. [code] "$colorfix" "{r g b}" "Proxies" { "Equals" { srcVar1 $colorfix resultVar $color } } [/code][/QUOTE] You're a doll...

[QUOTE=Robotboy655;50401274][QUOTE=deinemudda32;50401127]When will "IsMounted" be fixed for Dedis?[/QUOTE]It's not broken.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Robotboy655;50401439]All games are considered mounted on dedicated server because there is literally no way of knowing if they actually are mounted or not on dedicated servers.[/QUOTE] Out of curiosity, what's your definition of broken?

[QUOTE=NeatNit;50401633]Out of curiosity, what's your definition of broken?[/QUOTE] It does what it is supposed to do = it is not broken.

[QUOTE=Robotboy655;50401692]It does what it is supposed to do = it is not broken.[/QUOTE] But it doesn't do what it's supposed to do... It can't tell you whether a game is [i]actually[/i] mounted. You said there's no way to do it, that's understandable, but don't say it's not broken because it is.

[QUOTE=Willox;50400494]That one took a while. Material proxies weren't able to override $color when threaded rendering was enabled. Now, any of the mathematical proxies can. It's a miracle it worked even when using a single core. [code] "$colorfix" "{r g b}" "Proxies" { "Equals" { srcVar1 $colorfix resultVar $color } } [/code][/QUOTE] That's awesome! Any specific dates/times you plan to push these mcore updates? Really looking forward to it. (sorry if answered already)

[QUOTE=NeatNit;50401763]But it doesn't do what it's supposed to do... It can't tell you whether a game is [i]actually[/i] mounted. You said there's no way to do it, that's understandable, but don't say it's not broken because it is.[/QUOTE] Relevant: [url]https://wiki.garrysmod.com/page/Mounting_Content_on_a_DS[/url] It seems like you can have games mounted on the dedicated server that do [I]not[/I] appear in the mount.cfg file. Instead it uses a separate file, mountdepots.txt, as a reliable source for what is and what is not mounted. This seems a bit like double work. Is it possible to mount games in a dedicated server without using mount.cfg? Because if it isn't, mount.cfg can be used as a reliable source. It would save server owners quite a bit of duplicate effort to set up their server.