[QUOTE=FPtje;50930585]Does that make me Australian?[/QUOTE]
Unnecessary nit-pick. Obviously some people from other regions are complaining too, for whatever reason.
So onto a new topic.. I just noticed that sometimes on OSX an awesomium process doesn't get closed when the game closes/crashes making it so I can't close steam or relaunch the game.
The thing is in my opinion, people shouldn't care what other servers are doing, since you're obviously not playing on them. I only give a shit on the servers I play on, why would I bother myself with pointless drama like this?
Yeah...Fuck whoever play nice with their server and gets launched to the bottom
[QUOTE=StonedPenguin;50930770]So onto a new topic.. I just noticed that sometimes on OSX an awesomium process doesn't get closed when the game closes/crashes making it so I can't close steam or relaunch the game.[/QUOTE]
This bug is actually with Chromium iirc and is still present. That makes it even further outside if GMod's control if that's the source.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;50930592]Unnecessary nit-pick. Obviously some people from other regions are complaining too, for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]
It's not like that reason remains unexplained. We've been through this.
[QUOTE=FPtje;50932915]It's not like that reason remains unexplained. We've been through this.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, people are upset that suddenly players in their regions have another choice of server, essentially. For communities in the US, they're upset that a big community got bigger. I don't see it as unethical to bring one of the best DarkRP experiences (I know it's subjective so let's not get into that argument. Most people love it even though FP isn't most people, okay?) to more people. But in the thread made specifically about the mirrors I believe the OP's argument was that it's killing smaller Aussie communities ("But it has the potential to really damage Australian communities"). Okay, point being? I'm sure we and most other big communities have contributed to killing off smaller American and Euro communities too. It happens. The best argument against it is deceptive ping which isn't a big deal. What happened was a witch hunt, simple.
Anyway..
[QUOTE=code_gs;50930916]This bug is actually with Chromium iirc and is still present. That makes it even further outside if GMod's control if that's the source.[/QUOTE]
Could a tiny helper process be coded that watches the hl2.exe handle and if it goes invalid then check for any awesomium processes it was the parent of and kill them too, then kill itself? I know it's hacky but it should work. Just the first thing that came to mind if it's out of GMod's control.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;50934121]Could a tiny helper process be coded that watches the hl2.exe handle and if it goes invalid then check for any awesomium processes it was the parent of and kill them too, then kill itself? I know it's hacky but it should work. Just the first thing that came to mind if it's out of GMod's control.[/QUOTE]
but what if the helper process breaks? who watches the watchers?
A watcher-watcher :v:
It's a valid point but hacky enough to fix the outlined issue above, plus what's the likelihood of an incredibly simple snippet of code breaking vs awesomium? It was only a random idea though.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;50934121]Yeah, people are upset that suddenly players in their regions have another choice of server, essentially.[/QUOTE]
Where the [b]fuck[/b] are you getting this from?
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;50934121]For communities in the US, they're upset that a big community got bigger.[/QUOTE]
I demand that you quote someone [u]literally[/u] saying that they're upset that a big competing community got bigger. Until then I call you out on [u]making shit up[/u] and using your made up bullshit to make people who disagree with you look like selfish and childish poop spewers.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;50934121]I don't see it as unethical to bring one of the best DarkRP experiences (...) to more people.[/QUOTE]
This discussion, unlike what your made up bullshit suggests, is not a conspiracy against that one particular community. The claim that there is requires some [u]serious[/u] evidence.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;50934121]But in the thread made specifically about the mirrors I believe the OP's argument was that it's killing smaller Aussie communities ("But it has the potential to really damage Australian communities"). [/QUOTE]
I've seen the ping being high when Australian players play outside of Australia (or the other way around), but killing Australian communities? What is this specific thread you're talking about? I know about the thread talking about the flaws of the server browser, but not of one talking about Australian communities being killed by redirect servers.
<EDIT: You must be talking about [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1528773]this thread[/url]. I hadn't seen it yet. It does state that it damages Australian communities (somehow). I stand corrected.>
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;50934121]
The best argument against it is deceptive ping which isn't a big deal.
[/quote]
I cannot speak for others, but it was my main complaint. I accept the solution that has the server name clearly indicating that it's a US server. Maybe the label [US-redirect] would be better than just [US], but that's a detail.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;50934121]
What happened was a witch hunt, simple.
[/quote]
You tie this discussion way too closely to stonedpenguin and his personal circle of enemies. We would have had the same discussion if the second biggest DarkRP server's host had done it instead. This "witch hunt", selfish competition, emotional and dramatic thinking is redundant. The discussion can be had without it. It even has been until now.
[QUOTE=FPtje;50936087]Maybe the label [US-redirect] would be better than just [US][/QUOTE]
Was hoping not to join this conversation, just wanted to say that this is the first answer that makes sense and I see no downsides about it.
Players who see this will not be misled into believing they will have low ping, assuming they read the server title (if not it's their fault), and server owners get to expose their servers worldwide with the redirect servers.
The ONLY retort I can think of is "but this will make players not want to join", which precisely proves the point - players don't want to join servers outside of their region. Misleading them into clicking isn't going to help with that.
Oops, I guess I took a side.
Edit: Disclaimer: no one has actually said that retort yet, that I saw
Honestly, I don't see the point of redirect servers. Isn't that just a waste of resources and time?
[editline]23rd August 2016[/editline]
Like I'm serious, someone tell me why they should exist.
[QUOTE=LegoGuy;50936420]Honestly, I don't see the point of redirect servers. Isn't that just a waste of resources and time?
[editline]23rd August 2016[/editline]
Like I'm serious, someone tell me why they should exist.[/QUOTE]
The appeal is more players from displaying to a wider regional base. They would be obsolete -- except for maybe a lower ping causing it to be higher with default sorting -- if all servers were displayed on the server list instead of it being capped by area due to Steam's regional selection.
[QUOTE=code_gs;50936515]The appeal is more players from displaying to a wider regional base. They would be obsolete -- except for maybe a lower ping causing it to be higher with default sorting -- if all servers were displayed on the server list instead of it being capped by area due to Steam's regional selection.[/QUOTE]
The only reason why a player would want to play in another region is to play with a long-distance friend, which can already be accomplished by joining a friends game. Otherwise, I WOULD like to join servers in my region. If your server is actually good enough, word will spread.
[editline]24th August 2016[/editline]
Instead of making the effort into setting up these redirect servers, why don't you just... make your server better? :s:
[QUOTE=LegoGuy;50938590]The only reason why a player would want to play in another region is to play with a long-distance friend, which can already be accomplished by joining a friends game. Otherwise, I WOULD like to join servers in my region. If your server is actually good enough, word will spread.[/QUOTE]
you know, if this was any other game i'd kinda agree with you. cs:go, tf2, etc. garry's mod fundamentally differs from these games though in that garry's mod is less of a game and more of a platform for amateur gamedevs. when you join a tf2 server, you know what you're getting into 99% of the time. you're gonna choose a team, a class then shoot people as much as you can while doing your best to hold or push an objective. the region you're in isn't going to significantly effect what experience you receive.
that's not really the case in gmod. gmod CAN just be sandbox or ttt, standard experiences without little deviation from the norm but by a significant margin, it's not. the biggest gamemode in garry's mod is one not shipped by default with the game. the experience that you are most likely to have (and at some point, desire) with garry's mod is one that is entirely driven by independent individuals. the community that's kept gmod so alive over the years is one that THRIVES off of these user driven developments, servers that offer vastly unique gameplay experiences, not necessarily just a friendly community or a specific set of maps.
with region filtering in place, that unique and fascinating environment that the gmod community has worked so much to create is stifled in what valve assumes is "what players want". the gmod community has made it very loud and clear that we DON'T want region filtering (i'm pretty confident that you're part of a minority here, saying you want regional filtering) because it deprives us of potential experiences that we may enjoy. servers in gmod AREN'T just a single game with no variation. basewars is a gamemode i'd love to find more servers of but in my region, i only see about 10 servers, only a single community having any active playerbase at all. i'm savvy enough to find other servers using third party services, of course but i really don't think most players are prepared to do that.
i think it's maybe a little bit of an overreach given that sup is literally the #1 ranked server in gmod right now and has been for a pretty significant portion of time and their attitude has been nothing short of dismissive and outright rude at times regarding criticism, but they're fighting the sort of shit that imho is potentially scaring off new server devs into creating something fun because they think that their server won't find an audience. the region filtering has certainly made me reconsider prospects of hosting my own servers.
bare in mind that even though a high ping is a suboptimal experience, gmod players will also tolerate sub-20 fps on high pop servers. the quality of connection is not of the utmost importance when you're just trying to play on roleplay servers.
[QUOTE=NeatNit;50936143]Was hoping not to join this conversation, just wanted to say that this is the first answer that makes sense and I see no downsides about it.
Players who see this will not be misled into believing they will have low ping, assuming they read the server title (if not it's their fault), and server owners get to expose their servers worldwide with the redirect servers.
The ONLY retort I can think of is "but this will make players not want to join", which precisely proves the point - players don't want to join servers outside of their region. Misleading them into clicking isn't going to help with that.
Oops, I guess I took a side.
Edit: Disclaimer: no one has actually said that retort yet, that I saw[/QUOTE]
I guess my issue with this, from running a #1 Aus DarkRP server in the past is;
- So you redirect server to ensure it's seen globally
- Redirects to US
- Pings are huge and makes that "Best experience" suddenly shit due to lag and disconnect due to this.
I mean, sure if AU had decent net and low ping, it would be fine to spread it globally, but we don't so it's now an issue for players getting "tricked"
Theres no need for US servers to be seen with AU selected as a geo-filter in the browser when Aussies don't connect to US servers in the first place. SUP don't really have a market here in terms of players joining their server unless someone had friends on there or they had some magical connection to the US, or some 30-odd americans are now living in the US and happened to all be addicted to DarkRP servers and had to play with their ex-countrymen...
I miss out on all the cool gamemodes made by US based developers :(
[QUOTE=Joeyl10;50938776]but they're fighting the sort of shit that imho is potentially scaring off new server devs into creating something fun because they think that their server won't find an audience. the region filtering has certainly made me reconsider prospects of hosting my own servers.[/QUOTE]
That's a sad part with the filter - it's a real motivation-killer. When I ran my community, our servers were constantly full until the EU players went to bed. To know that you have something blocking your ability to expand and grow that you can't do anything about was at least for me very frustrating, and made hard work to improve the server experience less rewarding. Once we set up a redirect server in the US, we gained many more players who had never heard of us before and the possibilities felt less limited. I care quite heavily about this topic because I know how empowering redirect-servers can be for ambitious servers, and I hope their benefits will become more widely available in the future without abuse following as a result. I simply think that would make Garry's Mod a more inspiring and limitless game to run servers in. Servers would commit to striving higher, devote more time, innovate fascinating experiences, and the entire GMod community would stand to gain on that.
I'd be willing to keep the current server browser forever if we can see servers in every region.
I might be a little late to the party (I got banned for making some comments I really shouldn't have, FPtje's advice went over my head again, sorry to those offended), but let me re-iterate my points against redirect servers. [b]Before you begin with the dumb ratings or the flaming, these are [u]my opinions[/u] that I share with a handful of other users in my region.[/b] I'm not speaking for every person in my region, I'm simply speaking my mind.
- [B]Ping is an issue, especially if it's masked.[/B] In any first-person-shooter game, ping makes a significant impact on what you see being shot vs what you are actually shooting. While this isn't a concern if you are joining a server that is clearly marked with 250+ ping, [B]it becomes a problem when the server you appear to be joining advertising 40 ping, and when you join it shows 250+[/B]. This is best described as [B]misleading advertising[/B]. I recommend readers interested in learning more from slightly more reputable sources (:v: 'slightly' is one way to put it) goto [url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221391432_Objective_and_subjective_evaluation_of_the_influence_of_small_amounts_of_delay_and_jitter_on_a_recent_first_person_shooter_game]here[/url] and [url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221325119_Modeling_Ping_times_in_First_Person_Shooter_games]here[/url]
- [B]Mislabeling your server as being from X region is dishonest if it's a redirect server.[/B] Fortunately Stoned has been nice enough (:v:) to [B]adjust his server to show [US] in it's name[/B] however I still feel adding [Redirect] into there somewhere would make it even more honest. This can also be described as [B]misleading advertising[/B] however as I said [B]Stoned has adjusted his redirect servers (in Sydney at least) to identify itself as being a United States server.[/B]
Those are the only key opinions of mine I recall for now. There are probably more, but I can't come up with something reasonable and well-thought-out to back them up.
I have just one request for all of you: Can you move this into a separate thread if it doesn't directly relate to updating the game?
It just seems like everyone is criticizing a single server for this shit, and I'm not saying what they're doing is okay in my mind, but I really don't think it belongs in this thread. At this point it's just drama all the way.
Edit: The region filtering is definitely related and all, that's not what I'm referring to. I'm just talking about whatever has to do [i]specifically[/i] with the SuperiorServers redirects.
-snip-
So, will NW2Vars replace MWVars any time soon?
[QUOTE=YourStalker;50949630]So, will NW2Vars replace MWVars any time soon?[/QUOTE]
Not until you can store a string in a nwint.
[QUOTE=zeaga;50948644]I have just one request for all of you: Can you move this into a separate thread if it doesn't directly relate to updating the game?
It just seems like everyone is criticizing a single server for this shit, and I'm not saying what they're doing is okay in my mind, but I really don't think it belongs in this thread. At this point it's just drama all the way.
Edit: The region filtering is definitely related and all, that's not what I'm referring to. I'm just talking about whatever has to do [i]specifically[/i] with the SuperiorServers redirects.[/QUOTE]
Yeah we had two separate threads on this and none of the devs cared to post in it or comment opinions even when they were sent links to the threads.
Hence it was brought up here.
[QUOTE=YourStalker;50949630]So, will NW2Vars replace MWVars any time soon?[/QUOTE]
not until _Killburn gets a new Ferrari
[QUOTE=The Commander;50949864]Yeah we had two separate threads on this and none of the devs cared to post in it or comment opinions even when they were sent links to the threads.
Hence it was brought up here.[/QUOTE]
RB was vocal about his requirements: [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1516664&p=50930399&viewfull=1#post50930399[/url]
It's not the devs job to comment on drama. Their opinions are just that: they can post them if they want but it's not some requirement. They can post when they have some kind of physical solution to the issue that can be outlined clearly.
[QUOTE=YourStalker;50949630]So, will NW2Vars replace MWVars any time soon?[/QUOTE]
The only issue i've been having with them, it's just nullifying variables, like entities that makes them NULL more than nil, otherwise, there's nothing wrong with them, i would love to get callbacks for nvars for debug
[QUOTE=gonzalolog;50951029]i would love to get callbacks for nvars for debug[/QUOTE]
not only debugging, but removing the need to use nwvars [I]and[/I] net messages to sync data instantaneously/in-session stuff, those callbacks were a godsend
I've been using NW2Vars for a while now without a problem I even use them to entirely serialize all the data per entity. And yes the callbacks are a pleasant thing I wrapped up some code to make my life even easier, all I need to do now is following:
[lua] self:SetupNWVar("Disabled", "bool", { Default = false, KeyValue = "StartDisabled", OnChange = self.HandleDisableChange })
self:SetupNWVar("WaitTime", "float", { Default = 0.2, KeyValue = "wait"} )
self:SetupNWVar("FilterName", "string", { Default = "", KeyValue = "filtername"} )
self:SetupNWVar("WaitForTeam", "bool", { Default = false, KeyValue = "teamwait"} )
self:SetupNWVar("LockPlayers", "bool", { Default = false, KeyValue = "lockplayers"} )
self:SetupNWVar("Blocked", "bool", { Default = false, KeyValue = "blocked", OnChange = self.HandleBlockingUpdate } )
self:SetupNWVar("Timeout", "float", { Default = 0, KeyValue = "timeout" } )
self:SetupNWVar("DisableEndTouch", "bool", { Default = false, KeyValue = "disableendtouch" })
self:SetupNWVar("ShowWait", "bool", { Default = true, KeyValue = "showwait" })[/lua]
It also links them to keyvalue input and allows me to setup a callback if theres the need to deal with things.
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