Next Update v6.0 - October 2016 - Developers

[QUOTE=Revenge282;51751715]Firstly, you added an extra digit to your number there. There would be 2,610 players of the 13m+ owners of GMod.[/quote] This (Using CEF) would effect all Mac users, so with the estimate from your last post that would be 44,010 active users.

[QUOTE=Noi;51751372]We need to make demands.[/QUOTE] In what position do you think you are to make demands?

[QUOTE=FPtje;51751868]In what position do you think you are to make demands?[/QUOTE] A paying customer, and active contributor to the community. As well as someone on a modern OS who can speak for the majority of those also on modern OSes. I'm sure you of all people are aware that in developer cases like these it should be "what do you need to make things happen", rather than being told "you can't have that because I don't have a valid reason". Garry's Mod is a game for developers, and the developers are there to make gamemodes for the other clients. Aside from loosely maintain TTT, the GMod devs aren't doing work for your average player, they are there to give the tools the gamemode/addon devs need to make content.

[QUOTE=FPtje;51751868]In what position do you think you are to make demands?[/QUOTE] Probably the one that contributes to the fact that the game is still popular today, a content creator?

[QUOTE=bobbleheadbob;51751087]Why not both? Is there a reason GMod can't use Awesomium for Mac with discontinued support and CEF for windows?[/QUOTE] Anyone have a reason?

[QUOTE=Revenge282;51751916]A paying customer, and active contributor to the community. As well as someone on a modern OS who can speak for the majority of those also on modern OSes. I'm sure you of all people are aware that in developer cases like these it should be "what do you need to make things happen", rather than being told "you can't have that because I don't have a valid reason". Garry's Mod is a game for developers, and the developers are there to make gamemodes for the other clients. Aside from loosely maintain TTT, the GMod devs aren't doing work for your average player, they are there to give the tools the gamemode/addon devs need to make content.[/QUOTE] Neither paying customers nor active contributors just get to make demands. Making demands this way can only demotivate the GMod devs. It's too aggressive. No one likes being bossed around. Of course paying customers and contributors get to contribute in all sorts of ways, but not through demands. Demands are made by protesters, kidnappers and spoiled children. Unless there's some immense outrageous stuff going on, there's no use to [I]demand[/I] a feature. Instead, request, inquire, discuss, contribute by doing some research or whatever, but don't [I]demand[/I]. We could use some feedback on the ISteamHTMLSurface stuff, definitely. We need to find out what the biggest barriers are in the path of it being implemented. We need to figure out how to lift them. We couldn't do it with CEF, but maybe we could with ISteamHTMLSurface, since the barriers might not be as big.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;51751916]A paying customer, and active contributor to the community. [b]As well as someone on a modern OS who can speak for the majority of those also on modern OSes.[/b][/QUOTE] i don't really understand this statement, are you trying to imply that os x isn't a modern os? [editline]30th January 2017[/editline] though i would appreciate a clear, concise reason why some alternative solutions, namely why the isteamhttpsurface thing hasn't been considered.

[QUOTE=Joeyl10;51752571]i don't really understand this statement, are you trying to imply that os x isn't a modern os? [editline]30th January 2017[/editline] though i would appreciate a clear, concise reason why some alternative solutions, namely why the isteamhttpsurface thing hasn't been considered.[/QUOTE] I'm implying that OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard is not a modern operating system. Modern in the sense of currently maintained. The whole argument is we can't forget about the 0.02% of our players that are using a 9 year old outdated OS. Which in literally any other normal case would have developers laughing at you for saying.

[QUOTE=FPtje;51752045]Neither paying customers nor active contributors just get to make demands. Making demands this way can only demotivate the GMod devs. It's too aggressive. No one likes being bossed around. Of course paying customers and contributors get to contribute in all sorts of ways, but not through demands. Demands are made by protesters, kidnappers and spoiled children. Unless there's some immense outrageous stuff going on, there's no use to [I]demand[/I] a feature. Instead, request, inquire, discuss, contribute by doing some research or whatever, but don't [I]demand[/I]. We could use some feedback on the ISteamHTMLSurface stuff, definitely. We need to find out what the biggest barriers are in the path of it being implemented. We need to figure out how to lift them. We couldn't do it with CEF, but maybe we could with ISteamHTMLSurface, since the barriers might not be as big.[/QUOTE] We've been asking politely with posts and pull requests for well over a year now only to be treated to a tease that we were promptly told was not allowed to happen because of no particular reason, followed by silence. So yeah, most people are justifiably upset by the lack of communication, innovation, and increased stagnation of Garry's Mod. Especially in the case of this game, where it is carried on the shoulders of those who create content. No one buys Garry's Mod to freeze props in sandbox. They buy it to play the gamemodes and add-ons people like you, I, and many others here create. If we don't have modern tools to continue to do that, then I don't even know why we would bother to have developers still working on the game. [editline]30th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Rocket;51752653]Windows 7 is older than Snow Leopard, and Windows 7 is definitely still a modern operating system.[/QUOTE] Windows 7 was updated well past Snow Leopard. It's more akin to Yosemite. Windows 7 also didn't drop support for 32 bit. You failed to read my definition of modern.

[QUOTE=Rocket;51752653]Windows 7 is older than Snow Leopard, and Windows 7 is definitely still a modern operating system.[/QUOTE] Still maintained =/= Modern Windows 7 is old as shit and no one should be using it anymore, although obviously the keyword there is "should", I can understand that some people don't have the money to buy Windows 10, but at the same time it's unfair to developers to have to support older OS's. You would understand if you developed software.

[QUOTE=FPtje;51752045]Neither paying customers nor active contributors just get to make demands. Making demands this way can only demotivate the GMod devs. It's too aggressive. No one likes being bossed around. Of course paying customers and contributors get to contribute in all sorts of ways, but not through demands. Demands are made by protesters, kidnappers and spoiled children. Unless there's some immense outrageous stuff going on, there's no use to [I]demand[/I] a feature. Instead, request, inquire, discuss, contribute by doing some research or whatever, but don't [I]demand[/I]. We could use some feedback on the ISteamHTMLSurface stuff, definitely. We need to find out what the biggest barriers are in the path of it being implemented. We need to figure out how to lift them. We couldn't do it with CEF, but maybe we could with ISteamHTMLSurface, since the barriers might not be as big.[/QUOTE] Demands are only wrong when they are unreasonable. As Revenge said, the push to move away from Awesomium has been happening for quite some time now, and nothing has been done other than crush hopes and keep people uninformed. It is in [B]everyone's[/B] best interests to keep content creators happy. Facepunch makes money, the average player gets to enjoy fresh content, and content creators can create better things. Without content creators this game is nothing. Facepunch does not create content of its own in gmod. Just as youtube relies on people making content, gmod relies on people making content exactly the same way.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;51752641]I'm implying that OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard is not a modern operating system. Modern in the sense of currently maintained. The whole argument is we can't forget about the 0.02% of our players that are using a 9 year old outdated OS. Which in literally any other normal case would have developers laughing at you for saying.[/QUOTE] Why do you think we're just talking about those users? CEF only supports 64-bit OSX, this means it will not work with Gmod on any version of OSX as Gmod is a 32-bit process.

The demand of dropping a platform [i] is[/i] unreasonable, especially when decision was already made not to. Also, what's this discussion about outdated operating systems? Are there still people who think the CEF issue only applies to 32 bits osx and not 64 bits osx?

We should have a kind of bot that reminds us that because everytime we touch this subject we end up with fptje telling that os it's not the issue [sp]just after 2 pages about him blabing about deprecating an os is a bad thing but never telling us the real issue[/sp] Until he comes with that subject that almost everyone here discussed and then everything goes calm again And that's the cycle...Over and over and over

[QUOTE=Noi;51754437]Right, because we have to support ancient shit like XP.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rocket;51754446]I believe it's because 32-bit OSX isn't supported by CEF anymore.[/QUOTE] Oh my, this misconception is really a toughie, isn't it? Allow me to give you a table that shows to which versions of OSX CEF cannot be implemented for GMod: - All of them: [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img] - The 32 bits versions: [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img] - The 64 bits versions: [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img] - The 64 bits versions running on 64 bits computers: [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img] - The very latest version: [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img] - Versions that will be released in the future: [img]https://facepunch.com/fp/ratings/tick.png[/img] [U]Forget[/U] about the "32 bits" part if it's too difficult to understand that it's about the [U]application[/U] and [B]not[/B] the OS. Just think of it this way: It doesn't work for OSX. Not for old versions of it, not for new versions of it.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;51752641]I'm implying that OSX 10.6 Snow Leopard is not a modern operating system. Modern in the sense of currently maintained. The whole argument is we can't forget about the 0.02% of our players that are using a 9 year old outdated OS. Which in literally any other normal case would have developers laughing at you for saying.[/QUOTE] source engine only compiles in 32-bit mode. 64-bit source engine is either unstable or totally broken right now. cef os x only compiles in 64 bit mode. while cef on windows and linux can compile into 32-bit mode due to the higher prominence of 32-bit versions of those operating systems, os x abandoned 32-bit versions a long time ago. you cannot link a 64-bit lib to a 32-bit program. the reason that cef isn't being pursued isn't because of snow leopard users, it's because of an inherent incompatibility between source's 32-bit codebase and cef osx's 64-bit codebase. [editline]31st January 2017[/editline] this is such a tiring piece of misinformation can everybody stop spreading it

[QUOTE=DarthTealc;51754598]Summary of options that haven't had a decent rebuttal or Gmod team rejection: - Keep Awesomium as is, but [URL="https://github.com/Facepunch/garrysmod-requests/issues/791"]add ISteamHTMLSurface[/URL] for developers to use - Consider replacing Awesomium with the Awesomium developer's replacement (to be announced) - Replace Awesomium with CEF 3.2271.2019 (Chromium 41). It's not current but may work on OSX 32bit applications, and it's a lot newer than Chromium 18 / Awesomium)[/QUOTE] Isn't ISteamHTMLSurface based on CEF? How is ISteamHTMLSurface compatible with 32 bit apps? Maybe IPC or just an old version of CEF?

[QUOTE=Rocket;51754446]I believe it's because 32-bit OSX isn't supported by CEF anymore.[/QUOTE] Has anyone been actually reading the posts? CEF won't work on OSX at all, it will affect every single Mac user. Not just snow leopard. Some one who bought an Apple desktop yesterday brand new wouldn't be able to play. Snow leopard and modern OS's have nothing to do with this topic. I don't get how taking the game away from people is still a topic

SUP still using the redirect servers - [url]http://i.imgur.com/t86nqV7.png[/url] What's the reasoning this time?

[QUOTE=Rocket;51754816]The question is how up-to-date ISteamHTMLSurface is compared to Awesomium.[/QUOTE] Anything is way more up to date than Awesomium most likely because Awesomium is based on Chromium 18 which is ancient as shit. Also there's an easy way to check this, just find something that use ISteamHTMLSurface and make it load either a browser test website or just one that dumps your user agent.

[QUOTE=Rocket;51754816]The question is how up-to-date ISteamHTMLSurface is compared to Awesomium.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://store.steampowered.com/news/?feed=steam_client"]Very.[/URL] [quote="Client Update - Valve"] Steam Client Update Released Jan 19 A new Steam client has been released and is being automatically downloaded. General Updated Web control to Chromium v56.0.2924.10 [/quote] [QUOTE="Chromium Development Calendar and Release Info"] Release| Week of Branch Point (End of Day Thursday) 56| Nov 17th, 2016[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rocket;51755107]Re:[/QUOTE] It uses the api given by the steam client

[QUOTE=Noi;51756683]Willox haven't posted anything for like a month, just noticing.[/QUOTE] I would be more concerned that there hasn't been a feature-bearing update since July, when we got multi-core and P2P. Before that was September/December 2015.

[QUOTE=Revenge282;51756761]I would be more concerned that there hasn't been a feature-bearing update since July, when we got multi-core and P2P. Before that was September/December 2015.[/QUOTE] I heard that there was stuff in the works that they didn't want to release around Christmas, for whatever reason.

[QUOTE=Lebofly;51754778]SUP still using the redirect servers - [url]http://i.imgur.com/t86nqV7.png[/url] What's the reasoning this time?[/QUOTE] I see a picture of one of their servers? Any other proof that it's a redirect? If you're gonna accuse at least get more proof then that :|

[QUOTE=Lebofly;51754778]SUP still using the redirect servers - [url]http://i.imgur.com/t86nqV7.png[/url] What's the reasoning this time?[/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/tuV4MPW.png[/img] I don't see any. In fact, I can't see Clone Wars at all because so many French servers are filling up my server browser even from a mid-US IP. Amazing.

I have to say that I'm very, very interested in this talk about seeing GMod finally support Portal 2, L4D2 and CSGO maps. They have arguably some of the best maps ever made on the Source engine and I feel we're so close to having them work properly since porting one is a matter of minutes.

Yeah, you have to recompile those qith a different vbsp toolset and angine version tools Vmf shares compabilities across bsp versions, but bsp versions dont

great update guys, just add multicore support and a cake anticheat bypass and we are finished!!!!1111!!!!111 [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Extended - being annoying in multiple threads" - Blazyd))[/highlight]

I see cheater.team is sending their best men to represent.