Next Update v6.0 - October 2016 - Developers

[QUOTE=Noi;51920501]I do agree that fake players are plague that should be burned. But redirects are actually good. [/QUOTE] What's the difference?

[QUOTE=Noi;51920489]Crowd doesn't scare me at all.[/QUOTE] Nothing about being scared, it's about knowing when to drop a topic that you clearly aren't contributing to. Frankly, it's getting to a point where I genuinely think you are merely trolling. By all means, continue posting here, I'm just saying that you might want to take a step back and assess the situation.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920509]1) fake players 2) real players[/QUOTE] - unplayable due to lag - lying to players I really don't know how to break this down to you any further. You either get it or you don't.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;51920499]Then what's stopping blacklists on redirect/lobby servers? Sounds like that would solve the problem, and I'd say faking server information = faking player counts.[/QUOTE] I agree, I believe it's lack of standing policy and (I believe) Robotboy's workload. That's just one pedestrian's view, though. I would also worry that unless it's uniformly enforced, it could have the appearance of impropriety. I'm all for uniform enforcement, though, if it's not a legitimate (really, legitimate, not just a stand-in srcds instance,) it doesn't belong on the server list.

[QUOTE=Appo;51920486]I just don't understand. You're one of the only people here that "doesn't care" about redirect servers because it doesn't affect you but you still end up fueling the fire. Don't you think you're taking this too far and that it's really you that's in the wrong.[/QUOTE] FWIW, this doesn't affect me in any way either (I only like to code in Lua, never touch anything multiplayer) but it still infuriates me that this issue exists. Redirect servers should be banned altogether.

[QUOTE=Sonador;51920516]I agree, I believe it's lack of standing policy and (I believe) Robotboy's workload. That's just one pedestrian's view, though. I would also worry that unless it's uniformly enforced, it could have the appearance of impropriety. I'm all for uniform enforcement, though, if it's not a legitimate (really, legitimate, not just a stand-in srcds instance,) it doesn't belong on the server list.[/QUOTE] If there's a report system, then everyone who's fucking around will get reported. People, as you can see, don't enjoy being lied to.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920518]200 ms is playable. And this isn't CSGO. Not really lying.[/QUOTE] 200ms when you're playing something like F2S: Stronghold, Gun Game, or RP (think driving) is [I]detrimental[/I]. If you have no problems playing with 200ms on your Sandbox server, that's cool, but join yourself. Don't trick people into playing with you. Reach out to people who are into the idea of playing with international players without the focus on ping and do that. [editline]6th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Noi;51920526]Nice, you gonna give poor 2 gmod devs even more job, filtering through bullshit reports and spending tremendous amount of time to achieve what? Nothing useful.[/QUOTE] Addons have been removed in the past, and servers have been blacklisted too. Enough hoopla makes bullshit a little more glaring and easy to spot.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920491]Because I want to have servers in gmod that are populated with people from all over the world.[/QUOTE] And you think the best way to achieve that is to lie to people?

[QUOTE=Noi;51920530]Careful.[/QUOTE] Of what?

[QUOTE=Rocket;51920542]He'll come to my house and totally beat me up.[/QUOTE] or worse, he might call you names back!

[QUOTE=Rocket;51920527]Hmm, a constructive discussion. I should probably be a dick to everyone and post bullshit. I don't care though. I'm cool and smart and people like me, the anime avatar loser in the gmod update thread.[/QUOTE] Really, it's not worth picking fights with them. They're beyond the reach of reason and logic and any response to their posts will just result in them expelling more irrelevant nonsense. [QUOTE=wauterboi;51920531]200ms when you're playing something like F2S: Stronghold, Gun Game, or RP (think driving) is [I]detrimental[/I]. If you have no problems playing with 200ms on your Sandbox server, that's cool, but join yourself. Don't trick people into playing with you. Reach out to people who are into the idea of playing with international players without the focus on ping and do that.[/QUOTE] Yep, driving especially in the context of DarkRP servers. It was one of the main contributing factors to the death of my server and the chief complaint from most players. Part of the reason I shuttered it was because my host didn't reply to any correspondence over a paid migration service, so I decided they weren't worth the money I way paying. High ping is definitely an issue.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920426] Owner of Poseidon servers told that SUP didn't impact their player counts and that he has no issues with it.[/QUOTE] That "Owner" of Poseidon has been an "Owner" for about 2 months and has managed to do more harm than good. I played a big part in making that community as big as it is now (for 4 years) so if you're going to get someones opinion on redirect servers it's going to be mine as I was the only one that played and had community interaction. SUP doesn't impact Poseidons player count due to the fact it was up before these became an issue so they have retention of their players (It's a pretty simple concept to grasp). But that being said it is affecting a lot of new communities E.G my one that you kindly pointed out, I have every right to complain. Where's the logic in allowing SUP have redirect servers when other communities can't do the same (Unless they know C++ and want to be retarded fucks like you). If they're allowed to do it then we should all be allowed to, which is what will happen if he doesn't stop. Once again Noi kindly fuck off

Redirect and faking players are both technically cheating players. The problem is that redirect servers cheat players and "steal" them from other regions.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920555]Sure shitposting and curse words really contribute. If I was calling you a (example) "furfag loser" you would laugh. [/QUOTE] I'm not sure about the relevance of any of this?? Like, I agree I wouldn't care if anyone insulted me, but how did we get onto the topic of insulting people? I thought we were talking about vague threats?

[QUOTE=Lexic;51920537]And you think the best way to achieve that is to lie to people?[/QUOTE] The idea of lying about pings in efforts to promote international gameplay is really unfair. With a lot of the gamemodes I've played in the past, I never cared about the players nor chatted with any of them. I cared more about mechanics. F2S: Stronghold, for instance, has a lot of fun mechanics with building bases and a variety of weapons. That game required getting good at giving headshots. I also used to play PERP, in which driving becomes fucking impossible once you dip past 120ms (and I think that's being generous). I think I should be allowed to value mechanics and gameplay more than community. I don't play the game for a social experience, at least not any more. Really, lying about anything "for the experience" sounds like a load of bullshit I'd expect to hear from a salesperson trying to sell me on a broken vehicle. And all because someone wants to play with foreigners? Come on, the game wasn't made for you Noi. The game is being exploited and, if this continues, we run the risk of server popularity being entirely dependent on how spread out people's lobbies can be in the world, leading to a complete inability to rely on the server browser, thus risking the life of the game. Call it an exaggeration, and I'll admit we're far from it, but if it gets to the point where people are being tossed around from server to server over this shit, people are going to become disinterested.

I think I understand now, your FT posts don't count towards your post count anymore so you are just posting as much as possible to get it back up. [QUOTE=Noi;51920574]I wasn't even fucking threatening with anything, I said him to be careful, that didn't inherently imply anything. It's like you don't know English.[/QUOTE] Well telling someone to be careful implies that by continuing what he is doing, he will soon have something to be careful about, implying a threat. I also speak 3 other languages fluently if you would like to discuss my language skills. Moreover, I think technically that is an insult, now given you were complaining about being insulted earlier, I would go as far as to say that you yourself don't understand the concept, and therefore "don't know English". QED TLDR: Treat people how you wish to be treated, don't complain about being insulted only to then insult someone else.

[QUOTE=Rocket;51920559]Well it's different because you're a loser and you also have an anime avatar.[/QUOTE] I have to say, name calling will really not get you anywhere, Noi didn't even stoop that low today (so far). While I do think he's wrong, and makes no valid point to support what he's saying, he's still being [i]somewhat[/i] civil, so don't throw even more kindling into the fire. :/

My chief issue with redirect servers are that A) They're spoofing players by feeding false information to the server list, which should be automatically bannable. B) They're malicious in that when I join the mirror server, I'm being forcibly redirected to another server, which is malicious in that it's unwanted behavior and also (I believe) supposed to be blocked by FVAR_(SERVER/CLIENT)_CAN_EXECUTE. It's the same technique cheater.team used to make 30 people suddenly connect to my server, who's to say they can't change the target IP and use it to de facto DoS a server?

[QUOTE=Rocket;51920559]Well it's different because you're a loser and you also have an anime avatar.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=James xX;51920575]I think I understand now, your FT posts don't count towards your post count anymore so you are just posting as much as possible to get it back up.[/QUOTE] Thanks for successfully feeding Noi exactly what he wanted while completely derailing the argument.

What about "spoofing" the ping? e.g. Make the server take more time to reply to an A2S_INFO?

[QUOTE=Noi;51920569]It's players who decide to join, no one forces them to join.[/QUOTE] Players are going to join a server based on a number of factors, and ping would be one of them (and personally, quite high on my list) Most people don't want to join a server shown as having 30ms ping but when they get ingame they have 200ms, especially DarkRP where there are going to be guns and prediction issues from the pings. I don't think I, wauterboi, or any others can put it any simpler than that.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920569]It's players who decide to join, no one forces them to join.[/QUOTE] If you haven't noticed, the average gmod player isn't very smart. They'll end up opening their server browser, click the player count filter and join. Most cases being a redirect server in their region. I.E. Superior Clone Wars Rp, Dank Town or ZS Most of these players become oblivious to the existence of other communities in their "region" and end up sticking to this redirect server.

[QUOTE=Sonador;51920581]My chief issue with redirect servers are that A) They're spoofing players by feeding false information to the server list, which should be automatically bannable. B) They're malicious in that when I join the mirror server, I'm being forcibly redirected to another server, which is malicious in that it's unwanted behavior and also (I believe) supposed to be blocked by FVAR_(SERVER/CLIENT)_CAN_EXECUTE. It's the same technique cheater.team used to make 30 people suddenly connect to my server, who's to say they can't change the target IP and use it to de facto DoS a server?[/QUOTE] First, I dunno if it would be fair to call that a DoS or ever reaching the potential of a DoS. Second, I was careful about mentioning the connect thing, because ripping out that functionality (or workaround) would kill the potential for another GMod Tower. I think either the connect thing needs to be reworked so it doesn't need a workaround or banned entirely. Dunno how I'd consider the tradeoffs there, though.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920569]It's players who decide to join, no one forces them to join.[/QUOTE] Yes, but it's false motive. Most players just click on whatever server appears in the first twenty in the sorting. It's purposefully bypassing intended sorting behaviour.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920596]If he doesn't like it he never comes back and moves on to other servers. Players don't stick to servers they don't like. [editline]6th March 2017[/editline] Then they like it and you have no right in depriving them from this?[/QUOTE] Most of the time these redirect servers are big time communities with experienced developers and high quality content.

[QUOTE=Sonador;51920581]My chief issue with redirect servers are that A) They're spoofing players by feeding false information to the server list, which should be automatically bannable. B) They're malicious in that when I join the mirror server, I'm being forcibly redirected to another server, which is malicious in that it's unwanted behavior and also (I believe) supposed to be blocked by FVAR_(SERVER/CLIENT)_CAN_EXECUTE. It's the same technique cheater.team used to make 30 people suddenly connect to my server, who's to say they can't change the target IP and use it to de facto DoS a server?[/QUOTE] That's actually a Garry's Mod bug I believe that allows "connect" to be run on clients. CS:S asks the players permission first before redirecting.

[QUOTE=Noi;51920596]If he doesn't like it he never comes back and moves on to other servers. Players don't stick to servers they don't like.[/QUOTE] I consider my time valuable, and the time wasted downloading shit and connecting to a server that turns out is unplayable is unacceptable.

[QUOTE=code_gs;51920586]Thanks for successfully feeding Noi exactly what he wanted while completely derailing the argument.[/QUOTE] My bad, I'll happily reply to any PMs instead of filling up this thread.

I don't think this is going anywhere

[QUOTE=wauterboi;51920599]First, I dunno if it would be fair to call that a DoS or ever reaching the potential of a DoS. Second, I was careful about mentioning the connect thing, because ripping out that functionality (or workaround) would kill the potential for another GMod Tower. I think either the connect thing needs to be reworked so it doesn't need a workaround or banned entirely. Dunno how I'd consider the tradeoffs there, though.[/QUOTE] Well, by de facto DoS, I more mean in the optimistic sense taking up a slot that would otherwise be available until the victim player realizes they've been maliciously redirected and disconnects; and in the pessimistic sense that some skid can go spend $50 on 10 VPSes, set them up with the target server's name, and then use them to character assassinate their targeted community by making it look like [B]they're[/B] using redirect servers. The DoS was more of a direct point at the former, they're being denied service via being denied player slots. It's just too shady to leave permissible. And insofar as forcible redirecting, there's a difference between being redirected to a minigame server as that's not unwanted behavior, and redirecting me from a theoretical, fake AUS server to a US one. If that redirect functionality does get nipped, there's always creative solutions. Instead of forcibly reconnecting a player, it could simply print or display "YOUR GAME IS STARTING AT GMODTOWER.BIZ/BLUE" or something catchy and simple. I do maintain that it should be redirect servers being banned, not the functionality.