[QUOTE=Jelman;51986901]Meep please stop commenting its not helpful.
The players are pissed and rightly so, just because the servers full doesn't mean the issue should be ignored.
It IS an issue so stop saying it isn't.[/QUOTE]
i have yet to see anyone actually respond to my arguments. you guys aren't even trying to debate or bounce ideas back and forth. everyone here is saying the same thing over and over without responding to anything i am saying.
[QUOTE=Toedeli;51986886]Alright Meep.
- I am trying to be as calm as possible, fun fact, you were dropping insults like crazy to defend a server. Lemme guess, after this you go to the Owner and ask him to make you Superadmin for protecting the server?
Secondly my friend, it is very unfair towards other owners. You should really consider owning a server, it'll help you understand. The Ping thing is literally what I always want on top. Top ping: top FPS, for me atleast.
Yes I do like Metaphors, but you should think about studying Philosophy before beginning to type. Your Metaphor meant because one country didn't have Amazon, every country shouldn't. The fact is, only 3 well known servers with stuff like this. Other servers do not.
I think it's a good idea @Robotboy655 , as far as I am informed the server had enough warnings.[/QUOTE]
1. The face you have to result in personal insults, when you in fact know literally nothing about my reasoning of debating this with you guys is laughable.
2. It is not unfair, people who join their server and don't like the ping, server, owners, mods, players, language, addons, mods will LEAVE.
3. The fact you think ping related to fps in a game like Garry's Mod is just terrible. SuperiorServers probably has more fps than any other darkrp server on Garry's Mod right now. Maybe even sandbox / TTT as well.
4. I don't care for DarkRP, why would I want to be a superadmin on something I never play on?
And honestly, if I hosted a server I wouldn't care about how many people were on it either, because unlike 90% of the DarkRP servers out there I wouldn't have "pay2admin" or "pay2win" or pay to anything on it.
[QUOTE=WizardLizard;51986900]Honestly, why does the server browser take this much debate to do anything about it? Let's ignore the redirect servers for half a second and look at the state of the browser itself. Compared to the [I]legacy[/I] browser, it's a peice of garbage. And let's not forget that the legacy browser lists [B]non-garrysmod[/B] games on it. And trying to change the game to filter the type is a grayed out box. The non legacy server browser is so, so lacking, slow, and sometimes kills your ability to even manually connect to a server.
What gives? Why is any crucial update to this game absolutely drowned in arguments and drama?[/QUOTE]
beautiful reply, I fully agree.
I think when the Superiorservers issue is getting fixed, Garry sure as hell improves the browser.
It is just a small step for another future.
Oh my God dude, it's not about of fun or unfurnished the server is, take that fucking argument out of your head
It's bad practice, I don't care about ping or anything, it's all about where the server is listed and how the generic player just enters to the most populated server is and with the lower ping
BECAUSE THATS WHAT GMOD SHOWS, nobody wants to play a server with lots of player but with 100ms, they will go into 12ms EVEN IF ITS NOT NOTICEABLE
It's simple like that, if you REALLY want to be that stubborn to still being like "huh whatever ur server might be bad" is okay dude, but don't get me wrong once other people find a way to spoof this shit and fuck server browser with lots of redirectors that this is something that HAS TO BE FIXED
It's like the idiots in my area who list their unsellable $50,000 restored muscle car as being $50 on craiglist for exposure. No one who will see that (read: low income people / me with the settings to lowest price first) can actually afford it but click anyway since it says "hur dur only $50" and are hoping they get lucky. Truth be told once you actually get there you see that it's really $50k you leave immediately but it doesn't matter since the seller got what he wanted: Publicity and attention.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51986919]i have yet to see anyone actually respond to my arguments. you guys aren't even trying to debate or bounce ideas back and forth. everyone here is saying the same thing over and over without responding to anything i am saying.[/QUOTE]
You're clearly not reading then or in a deep state of denial.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51986919]i have yet to see anyone actually respond to my arguments. you guys aren't even trying to debate or bounce ideas back and forth. everyone here is saying the same thing over and over without responding to anything i am saying.[/QUOTE]
As I said, the low ping gives them an unfair advantage. The server browser ranking is HEAVILY based on ping and a regular player will just click the server at the top, because it [I]must[/I] be good if it's at the top. There are other servers the player might like more, but redirect servers force themselves onto the top.
[QUOTE]And honestly, if I hosted a server I wouldn't care about how many people were on it either[/QUOTE]
This is pretty much horse shit, when you run a server you want it to be successful otherwise why would you do it?
[quote], because unlike 90% of the DarkRP servers out there I wouldn't have "pay2admin" or "pay2win" or pay to anything on it.[/quote]
We'll use your logic here, are you mad because they're making money from it and you're not?
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51986919]i have yet to see anyone actually respond to my arguments. you guys aren't even trying to debate or bounce ideas back and forth. everyone here is saying the same thing over and over without responding to anything i am saying.
1. The face you have to result in personal insults, when you in fact know literally nothing about my reasoning of debating this with you guys is laughable.
2. It is not unfair, people who join their server and don't like the ping, server, owners, mods, players, language, addons, mods will LEAVE.
3. The fact you think ping related to fps in a game like Garry's Mod is just terrible. SuperiorServers probably has more fps than any other darkrp server on Garry's Mod right now. Maybe even sandbox / TTT as well.
4. I don't care for DarkRP, why would I want to be a superadmin on something I never play on?
And honestly, if I hosted a server I wouldn't care about how many people were on it either, because unlike 90% of the DarkRP servers out there I wouldn't have "pay2admin" or "pay2win" or pay to anything on it.[/QUOTE]
Lay down your keyboard and get out of your house and take a walk, probably with friends or such.
I have replied to all of your arguments, though, you seem to think that "You" are "We". You bounce back etc etc, I am to lazy to write a response.
Also, who the fucks keeps checking his ping IN the server. People look on the browser.
I don't really know what your last two arguments mean, do you wanna say that you don't care for a server which you are defending by simply trying to block a train (the community) which kills you?
Seriously, I have never played on it, it is everyone's choice. It may have better Ping, sure. I don't say Superior is bad, their way of getting players is bad.
If you don't care about how many people would be on your server, you would have no idea. it sounds like me when I first opened my first server. In the end, I had no players, no money and no worth to keep it up.
[QUOTE=maksimiljan;51986942]As I said, the low ping gives them an unfair advantage. The server browser ranking is HEAVILY based on ping and a regular player will just click the server at the top, because it [I]must[/I] be good.[/QUOTE]
Alright. Here's my response, again.
The "advantage" they have exists. They will join it sure, but how does that effect the player base of Garry's Mod?
What happens when they join it?
1. They feel how the server responds to them (aka their ping); they also play on the server to see if it's fun.
2a. If they don't like either of those, they leave and know not to join back
2b. If they like it they will stay.
Does this affect the player base in a positive or negative way?
Let's look at the facts:
The people that join will be happy because they like how the server plays and feels to them
The people who are not happy about the server will leave. They now know not to join this server again and can proceed to look for new ones to play on. They repeat this process of joining servers until they find one they enjoy.
The only single argument I can see you guys complaining about that is legitimate is that they have a higher position on the server browser than others because of ping.
The fact is, in Garry's Mod, to a degree, ping doesn't matter.
Most servers already use shitty weapons that aren't predicted and feel even worse than high ping with proper prediction. For all we know all people that use redirect servers and are popular uses properly predicted weapons that actually feel fair to the players.
Another point I have is that you don't see the other two redirect-enabled servers have a constant amount of 120 players on their 128 slot servers.
Do you think there's a reason for this at all? It's because of what I said above.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51986979]Alright. Here's my response, again.
The "advantage" they have exists. They will join it sure, but how does that effect the player base of Garry's Mod?
What happens when they join it?
1. They feel how the server responds to them (aka their ping); they also play on the server to see if it's fun.
2a. If they don't like either of those, they leave and know not to join back
2b. If they like it they will stay.
Does this affect the player base in a positive or negative way?
Let's look at the facts:
The people that join will be happy because they like how the server plays and feels to them
The people who are not happy about the server will leave. They now know not to join this server again and can proceed to look for new ones to play on. They repeat this process of joining servers until they find one they enjoy.
The only single argument I can see you guys complaining about that is legitimate is that they have a higher position on the server browser than others because of ping.
The fact is, in Garry's Mod, to a degree, ping doesn't matter.
Most servers already use shitty weapons that aren't predicted and feel even worse than high ping with proper prediction. For all we know all people that use redirect servers and are popular uses properly predicted weapons that actually feel fair to the players.
Another point I have is that you don't see the other two redirect-enabled servers have a constant amount of 120 players on their 128 slot servers.
Do you think there's a reason for this at all? It's because of what I said above.[/QUOTE]
short answer: you have been dumbed by 10+ people, that sure as hell means something.
again, people join and maybe stay to test it out. I am to lazy to find another argument, just go to another thread and flame there, mkay? or don't flame at all.
and also, holy shit, ping matters. I think i will be doing my own organization, i call it "Ping Lives matter"
Single servers using redirects is one problem, but a much larger one is the potential future that can lead to. If suddenly all local communities are forced to start using redirects too just to stand a fighting chance against the big servers, then suddenly every single server on the server browser would be a full-on ping gamble!
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51986979]The fact is, in Garry's Mod, to a degree, ping doesn't matter.
Most servers already use shitty weapons that aren't predicted and feel even worse than high ping with proper prediction. For all we know all people that use redirect servers and are popular uses properly predicted weapons that actually feel fair to the players.[/QUOTE]
They're not using properly predicted weapons. In fact, the server stays up for so long sometimes that the rate of fire on some of the weapons increases from CurTime imprecision.
[QUOTE=code_gs;51987029]They're not using properly predicted weapons. In fact, the server stays up for so long sometimes that the rate of fire on some of the weapons increases from CurTime imprecision.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the great answer code_gs, I expected simething like that from you. As I resoect your opinion, what do you think is the best way to handle the situation?
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51986979]Alright. Here's my response, again.
The "advantage" they have exists. They will join it sure, but how does that effect the player base of Garry's Mod?
What happens when they join it?
1. They feel how the server responds to them (aka their ping); they also play on the server to see if it's fun.
2a. If they don't like either of those, they leave and know not to join back
2b. If they like it they will stay.
Does this affect the player base in a positive or negative way?[/QUOTE]
ABSOLUTELY. For many people, SS will be [b]their first impression of Garry's Mod[/b]. Also consider than many of them are either young or not tech savvy, so when they join the first server they see and the game doesn't respond well and is glitchy because they're on a different fucking content, there is a very high chance that they will not play gmod again.
[QUOTE=Toedeli;51987036]Thanks for the great answer code_gs, I expected simething like that from you. As I resoect your opinion, what do you think is the best way to handle the situation?[/QUOTE]
I gave my opinion the last time around; just let Robotboy or Willox handle it however they see fit
I've not heard a single [B]good[/B] argument to answer one of these two simple questions:
— Why should SuperiorServers keep doing it, and not just stop?
— Why should they be doing it in the first place when they are the [B]most popular[/B] community on Garry's Mod to date?
If anyone has any [B]good[/B] and [B]valid[/B] arguments for those, I'd love to hear them because so far it's just been a shitfest in here.
[QUOTE=code_gs;51987044]I gave my opinion the last time around; just let Robotboy or Willox handle it however they see fit[/QUOTE]
The problem is - they haven't really handled it well the first time round - hence this row continues.
Last time they did something which was acclaimed to fix all - yet the redirect server are back again!
[IMG]https://i.gyazo.com/a148e709ff07b631119882b71c49012f.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Author.;51987055]I've not heard a single [B]good[/B] argument to answer one of these two simple questions:
— Why should SuperiorServers keep doing it, and not just stop?
— Why should they be doing it in the first place when they are the [B]most popular[/B] community on Garry's Mod to date?
If anyone has any [B]good[/B] and [B]valid[/B] arguments for those, I'd love to hear them because so far it's just been a shitfest in here.[/QUOTE]
1) I don't really get what you're saying there, I guess you mean why they did not remove the loading screen?
2) Also answering 1) a little, as more players as you get, the more money you get. I don't really have any good arguments in mind at the moment, excuse me for that dear friend.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51986979]Do you think there's a reason for this at all? It's because of what I said above.[/QUOTE]
So basically as I understood Garry's mod uses GeoIP, Tell me why would it be allowed for someone to BYPASS a restriction which is BUILT IN with the game?
It doesn't matter that players can 'just leave', they are still doing something which is NOT ALLOWED.
[QUOTE=tzahush;51987074]So basically as I understood Garry's mod uses GeoIP, Tell me why would it be allowed for someone to BYPASS a restriction which is BUILT IN with the game?
It doesn't matter that players can 'just leave', they are still doing something which is NOT ALLOWED.[/QUOTE]
FWIW this argument doesn't hold because Garry's Mod never should have had GeoIP. It was unwillingly inherited from some update Valve made, and Valve refused to fix it for gmod (or something along those lines). Since gmod uses Valve's master server, there really wasn't any way for the developers of gmod to remove the GeoIP thing.
However, is it fixed now? I'm not sure.
[QUOTE=LegoGuy;51986912]You know, my PR did have some seriousness to it. That's why I decided to actually take the time to improve it.
Just let it be accepted, set SS as an example for everyone else, and move on.[/QUOTE]
The PR wont be instantly active after it gets approved, and if does get aproved, penguin will most definetely notice the PR and make a bypass with many examples that I gave you, before next gmod update...
Here's an idea from one guy named Damianu in discord channel (StarfallEx). Make gmod servers non-anonymous in steamcmd, like CS:GO servers. Then you can ban steam account from using dedicated servers. Now changing IP won't do anything and they'll have to buy gmod on alt account to host again. Though, the guys probably making so much money from donations that $10 are probably pennies for them.
I don't think these redirect servers are capable of being VAC protected since they aren't actual SRCDS.exe servers. Maybe just remove non-VAC protected servers from the normal server browser.
Keep them in the legacy browser. People can still disable them there too.
[QUOTE=NeatNit;51987039]ABSOLUTELY. For many people, SS will be [b]their first impression of Garry's Mod[/b]. Also consider than many of them are either young or not tech savvy, so when they join the first server they see and the game doesn't respond well and is glitchy because they're on a different fucking content, there is a very high chance that they will not play gmod again.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for being one of the few people actually contributing to this conversation.
This is a genuine rebuttal, everyone. Please observe!
However, where are the statistics on people who join a server once never join again? You are just assuming peoples reactions to joining a server they don't like.
This whole debate has had no facts or observations of any kind yet, so here I go.
So out of the 40 people I felt like checking on their server, [url=http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198373587914]this guy[/url] is the only person who I saw with the same exact in-game time as on their steam time-played.
We will be able to validate your concern with his profile later on if necessary. He has 14.1 hours as of this post.
Another thing I noticed:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/dwCwVTy.png[/t]
More than half their players are not from the USA/Canada region. A lot of these people also have multiple days worth of hours spent on this server. The ping on most of the players are relatively high as well (>200ms). They don't seem to care.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/KhFTRVv.png[/t]
(ping is left of 0 active, time this session left of that)
So from this information we can assume: ping <= 200 ms feels relatively the same or doesn't matter to most people on this server.
[QUOTE=tzahush;51987074]So basically as I understood Garry's mod uses GeoIP, Tell me why would it be allowed for someone to BYPASS a restriction which is BUILT IN with the game?
It doesn't matter that players can 'just leave', they are still doing something which is NOT ALLOWED.[/QUOTE]
GeoIP was fixed a few updates ago. Doing stuff like this has been debated but nothing real has been set in stone.
:thinking:
What if lying to players to gain popularity over those servers who are ethical was a bad practice, and disallowed?
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987247]very long quote[/QUOTE]
From this information that 2/3rd's of SUP's players are from locations which there american server can't reach - meaning they are heavily reliant on abusing the server browser with there redirect servers.
6/24 people don't have a 'green' ping image which is rather embarrassing.
And based of the image NOT A SINGLE PERSON has a ping of under 100 which is a start contrast to what a redirect server would be showing.
Its also interesting how the leader board shows an image rather than a number - im sure that for a few fair players if they saw a ping of 100+ they would pick up there bags and run for the mountains.
Edit:
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987247]GeoIP was fixed a few updates ago. Doing stuff like this has been debated but nothing real has been set in stone.[/QUOTE]
So you feel now anybody using redirect servers are being malicious as now it had been fixed but it wasn't enough for them?
Remember back in the day when a bunch of servers came up that displayed ~80 player sandbox but when you joined them it was actually just a really long hallway that you walked slowly down and when you made it to the end it just booted you? And it disabled your pause menu.
Spoofing server metadata should be allowed though, right?
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51986919]i have yet to see anyone actually respond to my arguments...
[/QUOTE]
Your arguments are terrible.
[QUOTE=Bings;51987266]From this information that 2/3rd's of SUP's players are from locations which there american server can't reach - meaning they are heavily reliant on abusing the server browser with there redirect servers.[/QUOTE]
Again, I understand that this is frustrating to you. However, as I've said before, it's not their issue. It's Garry's Mod Server Browser's issue.
[QUOTE=Bings;51987266]6/24 people don't have a 'green' ping image which is rather embarrassing.[/QUOTE]
It's not really embarrassing, I actually think of it as an accomplishment for having those players still have all that time on the server even having that ping.
[QUOTE=Bings;51987266]
And based of the image NOT A SINGLE PERSON has a ping of under 100 which is a start contrast to what a redirect server would be showing.
[/QUOTE]
Sure, but they don't seem to care is what I'm trying to get at. Look at their total time played.
[QUOTE=Bings;51987266]
Its also interesting how the leader board shows an image rather than a number - im sure that for a few fair players if they saw a ping of 100+ they would pick up there bags and run for the mountains.[/QUOTE]
They actually recently changed that (iirc).
[img]http://i.imgur.com/1voiPlm.png[/img]
(via glua discord)
Maybe it's all in their head that ping is making stuff happen.
Well because of ping aspect, it allows to seperate players into regions. So Russian players plays on Russian servers, Koreans on their servers, and etc. Decreases the probability of having servers with players that doesn't understand each other.
[QUOTE=edgarasf123;51987286]Well because of ping aspect, it allows to seperate players into regions. So Russian players plays on Russian servers, Koreans on their servers, and etc. Decreases the probability of having servers with players that doesn't understand each other.[/QUOTE]
This is also a problem with the current server browser not matching languages with servers. My pull request on github has an attempt to fix this by adding flags to server names with [LANG] at the beginning of their title.
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