[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987289]This is also a problem with the current server browser not matching languages with servers.[/QUOTE]
I still don't want to be tricked into joining some American server. Now you're just being a hypocrite...
Y R U guys so "disable redirect servers" fanatics, goddamn. Leave them alone, you ping-addicted arseholes.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Sgt Doom))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987284]Again, I understand that this is frustrating to you. However, as I've said before, it's not their issue. It's Garry's Mod Server Browser's issue.
It's not really embarrassing, I actually think of it as an accomplishment for having those players still have all that time on the server even having that ping.
Sure, but they don't seem to care is what I'm trying to get at. Look at their total time played.
They actually recently changed that (iirc).
[img]http://i.imgur.com/1voiPlm.png[/img]
(via glua discord)
Maybe it's all in their head that ping is making stuff happen.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987284]Again, I understand that this is frustrating to you. However, as I've said before, it's not their issue. It's Garry's Mod Server Browser's issue.[/QUOTE]
But it is there issue - they are the ones abusing it! Because its broken doesn't mean you should exploit it nor is it an excuse to
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987284]It's not really embarrassing, I actually think of it as an accomplishment for having those players still have all that time on the server even having that ping.[/QUOTE]
I agree its a great acomplishment to fill a server up that full BUT is its so great if ther ehaving to cheat there way to do ti - its no different than forcing players to join a server with a scammy workshop item. There cheating there way to be full
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987284]Sure, but they don't seem to care is what I'm trying to get at. Look at their total time played.[/QUOTE]
About half of them have under 30 mins game time - and I stress again - considering there MASSIVE reach around the globe - there retention rate must be very low or surely they would have tons of constantly full servers.
How about we all go ahead and start creating these redirect servers. Lets see what happens :D
Redirect American players to Russian Servers
Redirect European players to NZ Servers
Redirect MeepDarknessM and SuperiorServers to the closest toilet bowl.
Saturate the system till someone realizes the true problems with it.
[QUOTE=Heavy Bob;51987304]I still don't want to be tricked into joining some American server. Now you're just being a hypocrite...[/QUOTE]
but it would seem you are a minority as only a few actual players of gmod have went anywhere to complain about redirect servers such as superiorservers.
however I understand why you would say that. I do still think it's a problem with the server browser not being useful enough.
I think popular tags might be useful in gmod in particular; tags like 'roleplay', 'serious', etc. (i can't think of any more right now). this would allow users to search a lot of tags and narrow searches down a ton. this would also help alleviate the need for redirect servers.
[QUOTE=VXP;51987311]Y R U guys so "disable redirect servers" fanatics, goddamn. Leave them alone, you ping-addicted arseholes.[/QUOTE]
this doesn't help our side of the argument.
Do try and remain civil, and at least somewhat coherent please. It's painful enough reading the Gmod sections as it is.
[QUOTE=Bings;51987315]But it is there issue - they are the ones abusing it! Because its broken doesn't mean you should exploit it nor is it an excuse to
I agree its a great acomplishment to fill a server up that full BUT is its so great if ther ehaving to cheat there way to do ti - its no different than forcing players to join a server with a scammy workshop item. There cheating there way to be full
About half of them have under 30 mins game time - and I stress again - considering there MASSIVE reach around the globe - there retention rate must be very low or surely they would have tons of constantly full servers.[/QUOTE]
They are at fault for abusing it, but everyone else can abuse it too. If everyone abuses it, maybe we can drag the devs attention to actually fixing the issue, instead of just banning some servers.
Again it's not cheating - it's using tools at their disposal, which are public by the way.
[url=https://github.com/DuckyC/gmsv_query]gmsv_query by DuckyC[/url]
[lua]
ply:ConCommand("connect "..ip)
[/lua]
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;51987337]Do try and remain civil, and at least somewhat coherent please. It's painful enough reading the Gmod sections as it is.[/QUOTE]
We wouldn't have this issue if something was done about it.
@MeepDarknessM
What is your argument?
Is it that big servers should be able to put redirect servers in every continent to deceive players into thinking they are joining a local server with low ping?
Do you understand that if everyone does this, nobody will be able to find any REAL local servers anymore?
Are you aware that not all GMOD players know how to type net_graph into console let alone open the console?
Why are you doing this?!?
[QUOTE=Heavy Bob;51987324]How about we all go ahead and start creating these redirect servers. Lets see what happens :D
Redirect American players to Russian Servers
Redirect European players to NZ Servers
Redirect MeepDarknessM and SuperiorServers to the closest toilet bowl.
Saturate the system till someone realizes the true problems with it.[/QUOTE]
^This
Seriously why is it even being debated. Sure, just superior servers and divinity doing it isn't a huge issue, but how about we just have mirror servers everywhere and fuck everything.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987348]They are at fault for abusing it, but everyone else can abuse it too. If everyone abuses it, maybe we can drag the devs attention to actually fixing the issue, instead of just banning some servers.
Again it's not cheating - it's using tools at their disposal, which are public by the way.
[url=https://github.com/DuckyC/gmsv_query]gmsv_query by DuckyC[/url]
[lua]
ply:ConCommand("connect "..ip)
[/lua][/QUOTE]
Thanks, now I'm going to make the gamemode "Fuck Niggers" on the top of the list.
aStonePenguin's solution is to obfuscate that a problem exits. Woopdedoo.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987348][url=https://github.com/DuckyC/gmsv_query]gmsv_query by DuckyC[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked using that module just ended up with your server not showing on the list at all
I think we should all now wait for Robotboy to give his result.If he doesn't do it, then repeat it. Probably he has his reasons for it. It is hard to blacklist a huge community, though, not impossible.
I think most of us agree that this fake redirect server stuff needs to end, one way or another. I really don't understand why you defend them so much, Meep. It doesn't matter where they are hosted, it's a lie, and they shouldn't be allowed to do that. If you're looking for a server and you sort the list by ping, you'll probably never join the redirected server, because you can see your ping is clearly high there. But then you join one of those fake servers thinking they are hosted in your country, and you realize you've been tricked, that your ping is really high there. What you do after that is up to you, but why did they make me waste time by forcing me to join this server? This ping is not what I was looking for. It almost feel like a prank. It's not only in australia, many countries have a bad connection, and joining US servers is not the best idea. I'm from Argentina, and I try to join latinamerica servers because +300 ping is quite annoying. It doesn't matter if that affects the playerbase, or if it harms the legit servers (it probably doesn't). It's unethical and annoying for the joining players. They may be using the tools they have at their disposal, and it may be completely legit, but if a mayority of the community don't like it, then it needs to be fixed, even if that means banning them for good.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987348]They are at fault for abusing it, but everyone else can abuse it too. If everyone abuses it, maybe we can drag the devs attention to actually fixing the issue, instead of just banning some servers.
Again it's not cheating - it's using tools at their disposal, which are public by the way.
[url=https://github.com/DuckyC/gmsv_query]gmsv_query by DuckyC[/url]
[lua]
ply:ConCommand("connect "..ip)
[/lua][/QUOTE]
At least we agree on the probable only way its going to ever be fixed.
Though I do have to say it is cheating. The definition of cheat is to "act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage." - quite literally bang on what the users of redirect servers are doing.
[QUOTE=MaxShadow;51987612]I think most of us agree that this fake redirect server stuff needs to end, one way or another. I really don't understand why you defend them so much, Meep. It doesn't matter where they are hosted, it's a lie, and they shouldn't be allowed to do that. If you're looking for a server and you sort the list by ping, you'll probably never join the redirected server, because you can see your ping is clearly high there. But then you join one of those fake servers thinking they are hosted in your country, and you realize you've been tricked, that your ping is really high there. What you do after that is up to you, but why did they make me waste time by forcing me to join this server? This ping is not what I was looking for. It almost feel like a prank. It's not only in australia, many countries have a bad connection, and joining US servers is not the best idea. I'm from Argentina, and I try to join latinamerica servers because +300 ping is quite annoying. It doesn't matter if that affects the playerbase, or if it harms the legit servers (it probably doesn't). It's unethical and annoying for the joining players. They may be using the tools they have at their disposal, and it may be completely legit, but if a mayority of the community don't like it, then it needs to be fixed, even if that means banning them for good.[/QUOTE]
I never said I wanted them to keep existing or that they are good to exist. I said it's not the fault of the community here, it is the fault of the game for allowing this to happen.
I don't trust stonedpenguin anymore. He promised he would take down the redirects after the server browser fix. After the server browser fix was pushed, he confirmed that he had taken down the redirect servers.
All arguments for and against redirect servers aside, stonedpenguin has made this drama [I]way[/I] worse than it would have been by being so deceptive about it.
I call stonedpenguin out to defend his decision to put it back [I]without[/I] telling the community, [I]against[/I] his own fucking promise and [I]despite[/I] getting precisely what he asked for in the server browser.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987247]Thank you for being one of the few people actually contributing to this conversation.
This is a genuine rebuttal, everyone. Please observe!
However, where are the statistics on people who join a server once never join again? You are just assuming peoples reactions to joining a server they don't like.
This whole debate has had no facts or observations of any kind yet, so here I go.
So out of the 40 people I felt like checking on their server, [url=http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198373587914]this guy[/url] is the only person who I saw with the same exact in-game time as on their steam time-played.
We will be able to validate your concern with his profile later on if necessary. He has 14.1 hours as of this post.
Another thing I noticed:
[t]http://i.imgur.com/dwCwVTy.png[/t]
More than half their players are not from the USA/Canada region. A lot of these people also have multiple days worth of hours spent on this server. The ping on most of the players are relatively high as well (>200ms). They don't seem to care.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/KhFTRVv.png[/t]
(ping is left of 0 active, time this session left of that)
So from this information we can assume: ping <= 200 ms feels relatively the same or doesn't matter to most people on this server.[/QUOTE]
I don't have the time (or even the will) to research this even a little bit, let alone as much as you do. However, I think the way you are testing it is unintentionally biased - if a first-time player really does get frustrated and leave quickly never to come back, your chance of catching him during a short window of time are slim.
The only ones who can properly research this are Penguin and the gmod devs - the latter probably only if they introduce spyware-like 'features' in the next update to gmod that makes the game report the data they need back to them. Something tells me that isn't going to happen, so only Penguin can do it.
Or I guess, if you have a client connected to the server 24/7, constantly keep track of everyone that joins and leaves (and their ping as the closest thing you have to a geographical location), you actually can do this research yourself. But Penguin would still also know the IP address of every client and have much better data.
You'd need to collect this data for at least a few weeks in order for it to mean anything. Do you have that patience? I sure don't. Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that these examples aren't enough. And I know that this is a dismissal and not a proper rebuttal, but alas, it's all I have at the moment.
But you [i][b]do[/b][/i] agree that the existence of the redirect servers is unethical, right? So what's the debate? They still shouldn't be allowed.
[QUOTE=MeepDarknessM;51987348]
[url=https://github.com/DuckyC/gmsv_query]gmsv_query by DuckyC[/url]
[/QUOTE]
WOW. [url=https://github.com/danielga/gmsv_serversecure]gmsv_serversecure[/url], line by line. The asshole didn't even include my license file >:(
[QUOTE=FPtje;51987682]I don't trust stonedpenguin anymore. He promised he would take down the redirects after the server browser fix. After the server browser fix was pushed, he confirmed that he had taken down the redirect servers.
All arguments for and against redirect servers aside, stonedpenguin has made this drama [I]way[/I] worse than it would have been by being so deceptive about it.
I call stonedpenguin out to defend his decision to put it back [I]without[/I] telling the community, [I]against[/I] his own fucking promise and [I]despite[/I] getting precisely what he asked for in the server browser.[/QUOTE]
He won't. If he does, it'll be a deflection. There's no way to get involved in a discussion about it without him getting cornered and his argument shot down, so instead he's just not going to play.
The only way to get him to knock it off is to get the host to suspend his account for violating the AUP, or getting FP Staff to blacklist the servers for malicious playercount spoofing.
He's aware of how to run his servers like a business, including making shitty decisions and totally ignoring the consequences until someone strongarms him.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51987922]He won't. If he does, it'll be a deflection. There's no way to get involved in a discussion about it without him getting cornered and his argument shot down, so instead he's just not going to play.
The only way to get him to knock it off is to get the host to suspend his account for violating the AUP, or getting FP Staff to blacklist the servers for malicious playercount spoofing.
He's aware of how to run his servers like a business, including making shitty decisions and totally ignoring the consequences until someone strongarms him.[/QUOTE]
I didn't think he was spoofing player counts?
[QUOTE=NeatNit;51987693]if a first-time player really does get frustrated and leave quickly never to come back[/QUOTE]
This part right here stood out to me- it proves that people who don't find it favorable aren't [I]stolen[/I] from anyone else. Obviously the ones that stay have found a server that they like. Does that concept have a flaw?
I totally understand the ping argument, but in agreement with Meep and by my own testimony, 200 ping is very playable on the server. My internet is such shit that my baseline for ping to anything is usually around that and I have little issue with any game that I play, including any of the GMod servers I connect to. I usually constantly have a small bit of packet loss thrown in there, too.
Meep's point won't change based on any bias; that the amount of people here on FP vocally upset over this is dwarfed by the amount of players that have actually found an environment they like and are actually regular players on a server from outside their homeland.
[QUOTE=Footsies;51987947]I didn't think he was spoofing player counts?[/QUOTE]
SS's 'lobby servers' have spoofed playercounts from the servers they're pretending to be.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51987956]This part right here stood out to me- it proves that people who don't find it favorable aren't [I]stolen[/I] from anyone else. Obviously the ones that stay have found a server that they like. Does that concept have a flaw?
I totally understand the ping argument, but in agreement with Meep and by my own testimony, 200 ping is very playable on the server. My internet is such shit that my baseline for ping to anything is usually around that and I have little issue with any game that I play, including any of the GMod servers I connect to. I usually constantly have a small bit of packet loss thrown in there, too.
Meep's point won't change based on any bias; that the amount of people here on FP vocally upset over this is dwarfed by the amount of players that have actually found an environment they like and are actually regular players on a server from outside their homeland.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter if you can play on 200 ping, or not.
The fact that he is spoofing it is the problem, if i feel like i can play in a server with 200 ping, i will, i dont need the server's ping to be spoofed for me to play it.
BTW:: Why do you think we care if the server is populated or not..
Its what he's doing not what he has...
stop thinking that everybody who posts here are some server owner junkies who only wants players?
[QUOTE=Footsies;51987947]I didn't think he was spoofing player counts?[/QUOTE]
The playercounts on the redirect servers weren't legitimate (although they did represent the amount of players on the server you're being redirected to)
[B]Edit:[/B]
So if nothing's done here are we all free to launch these redirects? I mean, I'm against it but if nothing's being done I will happily join in and can guarantee I'm not the only one who will
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51987956]
Meep's point won't change based on any bias; that the amount of people here on FP vocally upset over this is dwarfed by the amount of players that have actually found an environment they like and are actually regular players on a server from outside their homeland.[/QUOTE]
One of the main points is that these servers are using an exploit that only people that know how to compile source code have access to.
Every day server hoster can't do this so it's another reason it is unfair on hosters in different regions.
If someone is using a exploit or hack to gain an unfair advantage over others then it needs to be remedied.
You're saying we should limit creation of our content because another server owner doesn't have the knowledge to do the same thing?
What we're doing doesn't use any exploits. We aren't hacking anything.
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51988042]You're saying we should limit creation of our content because another server owner doesn't have the knowledge to do the same thing?
What we're doing doesn't use any exploits. We aren't hacking anything.[/QUOTE]
"exploit - a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system"
???
who said you're hacking anything?
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51988042]You're saying we should limit creation of our content because another server owner doesn't have the knowledge to do the same thing?
What we're doing doesn't use any exploits. We aren't hacking anything.[/QUOTE]
So you don't mind if I spoof my home IP address to your server's and get it populated across as many routes as I can? I mean, I'm not hacking anything, why should I limit my unethical activity?
The only reason you're so vocally confident is because nobody's done anything about it yet. You're figuratively the guy who brags on facebook about mugging people because he hasn't gotten caught yet.
[QUOTE=Sonador;51987922]He won't.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/E00Rm8u.png[/img]
I mean, I wasn't wrong. Keep it classy!
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51987956]This part right here stood out to me- it proves that people who don't find it favorable aren't [I]stolen[/I] from anyone else. Obviously the ones that stay have found a server that they like. Does that concept have a flaw?
I totally understand the ping argument, but in agreement with Meep and by my own testimony, 200 ping is very playable on the server. My internet is such shit that my baseline for ping to anything is usually around that and I have little issue with any game that I play, including any of the GMod servers I connect to. I usually constantly have a small bit of packet loss thrown in there, too.
Meep's point won't change based on any bias; that the amount of people here on FP vocally upset over this is dwarfed by the amount of players that have actually found an environment they like and are actually regular players on a server from outside their homeland.[/QUOTE]
The Thing is, no one cares if the Server is playable or not. The main Problem here simply is that Penguin got told multiple times to get this offline, he refused. I heared good stuff about SS, but seriously, it's kinda unfair for very new Servers. I think you should try to ASAP get shit done, it currently doesn't seem well for you.
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