[QUOTE=Sonador;52048538]isn't posting for banned users bannable?[/QUOTE]
I'd say it was just a quote from the discord.
[QUOTE=Sonador;52048538]isn't posting for banned users bannable?[/QUOTE]
I didn't post for him, it was relevant to the discussion and I saw it from Discord.
[QUOTE=Alex_grist;52048809]I didn't post for him, it was relevant to the discussion and I saw it from Discord.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for clarifying, I just pointedly remembered someone else blatantly being a talkbox for another banned user earlier in the thread through discord screens and getting banned for it
I suppose it makes sense given FPtje is actually in that discord given the successful highlight now that I take a closer look
[QUOTE=FPtje;52048515]Banning the IPs of the server might be good for now. There should still be a way out for him. He should still be able to decide to run his server legitimately, without redirect or proxy servers. We won't believe he would do that for long, but he'd easily be able to prove us otherwise.
Make it impossible for him to say that we're unreasonable.[/QUOTE]
It's already impossible. How many second chances has he been given? This one was [b]very clearly[/b] labeled as the final chance. And what does he do? The exact same thing barely a week later.
I'm a big believer in second chances, but not infinite chances. This ship has sailed.
The only real way you're going to fix this is to get someone with blacklist access to just dedicate a massive chunk of time to banning SuperiorServer's IP, refreshing their website to see what they change it to, banning it again, and just remaining persistent until it chokes off their playerbase. I realize that would be an inhuman feat, but if someone does it a few times a day for a few weeks they'd lose their playerbase pretty precipitately.
They're not going to learn, they're a GMod server host. All of the scum that comes with unethical business practices with none of the liability.
Another thing to consider is getting the information of their PayPal or other donation system and file complaints with them over malicious ToS violations. Making PayPal alts is nigh impossible and cutting off their profit line would bring this boxfest to a screeching halt wonderfully. PayPal is draconic enough to probably do it, too.
[QUOTE=Sonador;52048900]The only real way you're going to fix this is to get someone with blacklist access to just dedicate a massive chunk of time to banning SuperiorServer's IP, refreshing their website to see what they change it to, banning it again, and just remaining persistent until it chokes off their playerbase. I realize that would be an inhuman feat, but if someone does it a few times a day for a few weeks they'd lose their playerbase pretty precipitately.
They're not going to learn, they're a GMod server host. All of the scum that comes with unethical business practices with none of the liability.
Another thing to consider is getting the information of their PayPal or other donation system and file complaints with them over malicious ToS violations. Making PayPal alts is nigh impossible and cutting off their profit line would bring this boxfest to a screeching halt wonderfully. PayPal is draconic enough to probably do it, too.[/QUOTE]
How about you just fix the hole he's doing it through. People always seem to try to go for the hardest possible path. Surely, if they (Facepunch Studios) can use the steam API properly then they can make some system to make sending it to the master server list at least a bit more difficult or with more "verifications" as they did with their client join process.
Not sure what hosting provider you got burnt by but I'd like to think that the majority aren't the scum of the earth and don't do what they want.
Wow, you areally want sup to die
[QUOTE=gonzalolog;52048968]Wow, you areally want sup to die[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they're pretty much witch hunting at this point. It seems as if they just really want blood.
[QUOTE=ertug20;52048963]How about you just fix the hole he's doing it through. People always seem to try to go for the hardest possible path. Surely, if they can use the steam API properly then they can make some system to make sending it to the master server list at least a bit more difficult or with more "verifications" as they did with their client join process.
Not sure what hosting provider you got burnt by but I'd like to think that the majority aren't the scum of the earth and don't do what they want.[/QUOTE]
So you want "more verifications" to be done by an non-existent API. If that API doesn't exist then Rubat and Wilcox should work with Valve to make it happen. You then want all servers to start using this new system.
Flawless plan if you ask me.
[editline]2nd April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=ertug20;52048975]Yeah, they're pretty much witch hunting at this point. It seems as if they just really want blood.[/QUOTE]
Have you stopped hosting them?
[QUOTE=ertug20;52048975]Yeah, they're pretty much witch hunting at this point. It seems as if they just really want blood.[/QUOTE]
If that's your opinion, sure. Neither I nor anyone else actually believes or hopes they'll die off if they quit hosting redirect servers, but they're not going to quit hosting redirect servers and they were warned their community would be blacklisted if they didn't so.
Yes, I want them to face the consequences they're asking for.
I already said it 10something pages ago, I hate superiorservers, I joined it twice and it was awful both times. I have no problem with them being popular or the most popular. I have a problem with them doing malicious shit and thinking they're untouchable. Garry's Mod and DarkRP are a cesspit because of this shit, and anything I can do to advocate a cleanup or progress is definitely something I'll take part in.
[QUOTE=YourStalker;52048984]So you want "more verifications" to be done by an non-existent API. If that API doesn't exist then Rubat and Wilcox should work with Valve to make it happen. You then want all servers to start using this new system.
Flawless plan if you ask me.
[editline]2nd April 2017[/editline]
Have you stopped hosting them?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=YourStalker;52048984]So you want "more verifications" to be done by an non-existent API. If that API doesn't exist then Rubat and Wilcox should work with Valve to make it happen. You then want all servers to start using this new system.
Flawless plan if you ask me.
[editline]2nd April 2017[/editline]
Have you stopped hosting them?[/QUOTE]
The steam API is specifically there for a reason. It's how everything connects to steam including game servers. I'm sure they could easily set some random parameter or key to a specific but hard to find value then either cross check it periodically or force all servers to use the "new" steam API which they say that they did years ago. The issue though is that I'm assuming that they didn't patch this with the last update and that the individuals doing this are still using it.
Valve is not going to budge or help them, it's valve. This is something that they may just have to solo on.
They are not hosting any "shady" or suspicious activity behind our network as mentioned to the person who emailed us directly this afternoon regarding to this subject. They are only hosting legitimate and valid services behind our network at this time.
[QUOTE=Sonador;52049001]If that's your opinion, sure. Neither I nor anyone else actually believes they'll die off if they quit hosting redirect servers, but they're not going to quit hosting redirect servers and they were warned their community would be blacklisted if they didn't so.
Yes, I want them to face the consequences they're asking for.[/QUOTE]
If you patch the exploit/hole or at least make it a little bit harder for individuals to actually "send a server" to Valve's master lists then it would at least slow them down.
To be honest with you though, since Facepunch Studios has been pushing out "blacklists" to their custom server browser instead of valve directly (probably because it's a lot easier and they won't have to wait), I wouldn't count on any "custom" system to make it any harder.
[QUOTE=ertug20;52049018]To be honest with you though, since Facepunch Studios has been pushing out "blacklists" to their custom server browser instead of valve directly (probably because it's a lot easier and they won't have to wait), I wouldn't count on any "custom" system to make it any harder.[/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong, if folks have more innovative solutions I'm more than happy to see them pursued. In the interim, though, I want them to face the consequences for their actions.
Impunitive asshattery pisses me off like nothing else, and it's GMod's #1 main source of pain.
Wasn't there a player ban list in gmod? I mean if he keeps going like this he'll be worse than some of the other people on there.
What's the status on our little Mexican stand off anyway?
[QUOTE=lNloruzenchi;52048579]What's the difference between OVH in particular and literally any, [I]any[/I] game server provider 1995 and onward, exactly? Stop throwing words around like you're trying to make yourself seem important.[/QUOTE]
Considering I've had many types of people try and bring me down for many different reasons through my years of using OVH and haven't had OVH cut me off, I'd say my opinion of OVH isn't half bad for the topic considering the servers hosting sup are from ovh but being used by GMCHosting aka Ertug
[QUOTE=FPtje;52049193]Wasn't there a player ban list in gmod? I mean if he keeps going like this he'll be worse than some of the other people on there.
What's the status on our little Mexican stand off anyway?[/QUOTE]
The issue with expecting a large community to just shut down all of their servers and submit is that to some of them, this is their business. One of the only proper solutions is to just fix the exploit and get on with their lives. If it wasn't this individual then surely it would have been another.
I don't think that anything has really changed up until now.
[QUOTE=NootNootEh;52049207]Considering I've had many types of people bring me down for many different reasons through my years of using OVH and haven't had OVH cut me off, I'd say my opinion of OVH isn't half bad for the topic considering it's the host Sup uses.[/QUOTE]
Gotta use them to gulp up very large attacks. It'll change in the future. :facemelt: I hate them with every fathom of my being and you should too. Ignoring DMCA reports isn't really something I would call remarkable.
[QUOTE=ertug20;52049212]The issue with expecting a large community to just shut down all of their servers and submit is that to some of them, this is their business. One of the only proper solutions is to just fix the exploit and get on with their lives. If it wasn't this individual then surely it would have been another.
I don't think that anything has really changed up until now.
Gotta use them to gulp up very large attacks. It'll change in the future. :facemelt: I hate them with every fathom of my being and you should too.[/QUOTE]
I would change but currently they are the only host I've found that have been able to put up with the amount of attack methods and other methods people have to trying to put down the servers I use from OVH. I'm also not neccessarily saying them ignoring DMCA reports are "Remarkable" but I find that there lack of bowing down to someone who is clearly bullshitting or doing this out of spite, great since a lot of company's I've noticed will instantly shut you down or tell you to remove or do something without even looking into it much.
[QUOTE=Sonador;52048900]
Another thing to consider is getting the information of their PayPal or other donation system and file complaints with them over malicious ToS violations. Making PayPal alts is nigh impossible and cutting off their profit line would bring this boxfest to a screeching halt wonderfully. PayPal is draconic enough to probably do it, too.[/QUOTE]
That just seems like blunt harassment, I can understand that Penguin is doing Redirect servers and proxying servers. But seriously? Even the thought of contacting paypal and trying to fuck him over income wise? Why even think of this option? you type of people who keep coming up and voicing methods of crippling them in other methods that isn't gmod is a bit fucked.
Robot/Willox have many ways they could do to hinder or at the very least stop penguin from doing what he is doing, the fact that you'd think of going to the extent of harassing him on other platforms because what he's doing on one of them is a bit fucked in my opinion.
[QUOTE=ertug20;52049212]The issue with expecting a large community to just shut down all of their servers and submit is that to some of them, this is their business. One of the only proper solutions is to just fix the exploit and get on with their lives. If it wasn't this individual then surely it would have been another.
.[/QUOTE]
You aren't hosting any servers except the single master, and are using fake servers to bring players to an unusable experience. It's not even just one exploit either, or a bundle of them. Stoned had shown he will continue to find workarounds to do this purely in order to stand on his point, in the face of quite literally being taken down by the game's creators. Business or not, it is our duty to ensure everyone gets a fair game.
[QUOTE=ertug20;52049212]The issue with expecting a large community to just shut down all of their servers and submit is that to some of them, this is their business. One of the only proper solutions is to just fix the exploit and get on with their lives. If it wasn't this individual then surely it would have been another.
I don't think that anything has really changed up until now.
[/QUOTE]
This is precisely why I would want to leave an option for Stoned to get his act together. If he cares about his income, he should get a chance to back the fuck down. He would be the one to throw it away, and there would be no blame on [B]anyone[/B] but himself for him losing his main source of income.
[QUOTE=ertug20;52049212]The issue with expecting a large community to just shut down all of their servers and submit is that to some of them, this is their business. One of the only proper solutions is to just fix the exploit and get on with their lives. If it wasn't this individual then surely it would have been another.[/QUOTE]
Nobody is asking them to shut down all their servers entirely and just vanish. They are asking them to stop routing players through false servers to a central one because it keeps fucking up the player experience ("Oh hey this RP server has 28ms latency! I'll join!" - one connection later - "Why the fuck is my latency so high!").
I don't even partake in GMod much any more because of this dumb bullshit server community "businesses" keep pulling, and even I can see it's a problem. It severely fucks with the perception of the game and the experience of actually playing the fucking thing.
If SUP and other shitty communities want to keep doing this, that's their prerogative, but they're going to find themselves blocked repeatedly.
(perhaps you shouldn't be trying to make a living hosting weird fucking roleplay servers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
[QUOTE=FPtje;52049256]This is precisely why I would want to leave an option for Stoned to get his act together. If he cares about his income, he should get a chance to back the fuck down. He would be the one to throw it away, and there would be no blame on [B]anyone[/B] but himself for him losing his main source of income.[/QUOTE]
I'm also perfectly happy with giving him another chance here. Just make it clear as crystal: This is it. No more redirect servers, no matter the amount of mental gymnastics invested in them, or his actual servers bite the dust.
[QUOTE=ertug20;52049212]The issue with expecting a large community to just shut down all of their servers and submit is that to some of them, this is their business. One of the only proper solutions is to just fix the exploit and get on with their lives. If it wasn't this individual then surely it would have been another.[/QUOTE]
I get the argument that for some of them, this is their business, but here's the converse to that: when businesses do unethical shit and get caught for it, they face consequences, up to and including license suspensions/bans. If I fuck up on my job, I can lose my permits with the state, and the only recourse I have is to accept it and move on until the suspensions pass, if they ever do.
If someone tells you not to do something or you're gonna get punished, and they're the people in charge, quit fucking doing it, it's that simple. This isn't some white knight underdog fantasy tale lol.
Couldn't we just put connect in the [URL="http://wiki.garrysmod.com/page/Blocked_ConCommands"]convar blacklist[/URL] so Lua scripts couldn't run it?
[QUOTE=txike;52049276]Couldn't we just put connect in the [URL="http://wiki.garrysmod.com/page/Blocked_ConCommands"]convar blacklist[/URL] so Lua scripts couldn't run it?[/QUOTE]
There's legit purposes for it, unfortunately, like GMod Tower and Sassilization-likes where the lobby server was an actual playable instance with a map and real lobby. The difference here is there's no actual lobby or gameplay, it's just a stand-in that redirects you to a server.
I made that same argument earlier, but it didn't strike me at the time there are legit uses for the connect command.
[QUOTE=txike;52049276]Couldn't we just put connect in the [URL="http://wiki.garrysmod.com/page/Blocked_ConCommands"]convar blacklist[/URL] so Lua scripts couldn't run it?[/QUOTE]
To add to the above, there's also other ways to do this such as opening "steam://connect/ipaddress:port" on the client.
[QUOTE=bigdogmat;52049301]To add to the above, there's also other ways to do this such as opening "steam://connect/ipaddress:port" on the client.[/QUOTE]
I should probably drop valve a line to add a user-popup asking for permission to redirect so they can patch it in sometime in 2026
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52049263]Nobody is asking them to shut down all their servers entirely and just vanish. They are asking them to stop routing players through false servers to a central one because it keeps fucking up the player experience ("Oh hey this RP server has 28ms latency! I'll join!" - one connection later - "Why the fuck is my latency so high!").
I don't even partake in GMod much any more because of this dumb bullshit server community "businesses" keep pulling, and even I can see it's a problem. It severely fucks with the perception of the game and the experience of actually playing the fucking thing.
If SUP and other shitty communities want to keep doing this, that's their prerogative, but they're going to find themselves blocked repeatedly.
(perhaps you shouldn't be trying to make a living hosting weird fucking roleplay servers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with what he's doing specifically with these redirect servers. Anycast (when done properly) is not related to redirect servers. I don't pick and choose my clients either. All I'm doing here is defending my own routing method and also offering new things that you can do to resolve the issue without giving everybody a headache.
[QUOTE=Sonador;52049274]I'm also perfectly happy with giving him another chance here. Just make it clear as crystal: This is it. No more redirect servers, no matter the amount of mental gymnastics invested in them, or his actual servers bite the dust.
I get the argument that for some of them, this is their business, but here's the converse to that: when businesses do unethical shit and get caught for it, they face consequences, up to and including license suspensions/bans. If I fuck up on my job, I can lose my permits with the state, and the only recourse I have is to accept it and move on until the suspensions pass, if they ever do.
If someone tells you not to do something or you're gonna get punished, and they're the people in charge, quit fucking doing it, it's that simple. This isn't some white knight underdog fantasy tale lol.[/QUOTE]
I can't deny your logic at the end of the day.
[QUOTE=txike;52049276]Couldn't we just put connect in the [URL="http://wiki.garrysmod.com/page/Blocked_ConCommands"]convar blacklist[/URL] so Lua scripts couldn't run it?[/QUOTE]
The ability to actually redirect a connected client isn't really the problem. As Sonador said it does have uses for hub-node gamemodes like minigame stuff and such.
The problem is using it in tandem with falsified servers that don't actually do anything to break the region filtering. When you join a minigame server you're knowingly entering something that isn't likely to be in your region. When joining a SUP server or whatever you're being told "hey this is in your region" by the browser but in reality you're being sent somewhere else entirely potentially.
It's bad user experience. Connect and the Steam URL API aren't the problem.
[editline]2nd April 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=ertug20;52049311]I don't agree with what he's doing specifically with these redirect servers. Anycast is not related to redirect servers. I don't pick and choose my clients either. All I'm doing here is defending my own routing method and also offering new things that you can do to resolve the issue without giving everybody a headache.[/QUOTE]
I literally could care less about the semantics of "redirect servers aren't anycast!!!" because it doesn't matter. Functionally (and this is the important part!) they are behaving the same as far as a client sees. They are joining a server and ending up somewhere else entirely.
Bad UX. Don't even help promote such shite by providing it. It has very little reason to be used in the context of video game servers.
[QUOTE=FPtje;52049256]This is precisely why I would want to leave an option for Stoned to get his act together. If he cares about his income, he should get a chance to back the fuck down. He would be the one to throw it away, and there would be no blame on [B]anyone[/B] but himself for him losing his main source of income.[/QUOTE]
As I said in the previous page, this [i]was[/i] that chance, and he blew it pretty much immediately.
While we're on this topic of ethics, what about the servers that used backdoors to gain players? Also, don't forget those that use invite botting??
I strongly feel that, if SuperiorServers was shut down it will be a huge blow to the DarkRP scene. It's a quality server that brings a lot of players to GMod, like god damn it, the steam group has 70000 members.
I understand that stoned went against his word and he should look into other ways of gaining players, but this could be a good opportunity to fix the server browser.
[QUOTE=orc;52049899]While we're on this topic of ethics, what about the servers that used backdoors to gain players? Also, don't forget those that use invite botting??
I strongly feel that, if SuperiorServers was shut down it will be a huge blow to the DarkRP scene. It's a quality server that brings a lot of players to GMod, like god damn it, the steam group has 70000 members.
I understand that stoned went against his word and he should look into other ways of gaining players, but this could be a good opportunity to fix the server browser.[/QUOTE]
It's more of an issue with FPS needing to actually deprecate the old steam API or make some verification system. It doesn't have anything to do particularly with the server browser other than queries showing up there.
Related: Is there any reason a server would have an empty playerlist in the browser but show over 100 players?
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