[QUOTE=darksoul69;37925551]Holy shit people actually play on that server and then give money to the owner?[/QUOTE]
You don't "play" on ByB. You mess with admin abusers until they ban you and then make a big deal of it. Why? it's a problem that has shown up in facepunch and that nigerian has been proving for the past year. They are huge fucking trollbait. They let nothing go and flip shit the second they think anyone is messing with them. Why do they think Nigerian keeps trolling them? Because they don't react at all? Whenever you set your name to anything that is ":royalty status: of :southern country:" The admins will flip shit and think they are being trolled before you even start playing. Arguing is also considered trolling, I've been banned by superadmins for being a "Nigerian Alt" just for making an admin abuse ticket during the time of his active trolling. Fact of the matter is, they are power hungry kids who dont take responsibility or think twice about banning people. They essentially cyber bully anyone they dont like, and will hunt you down until they can ban you. I haven't been able to keep the same name on ByB for over a month due to the act that some admin will try and hunt me down.
The admin staff uses hacks and abusive E2s to "aid" in their administrating process. I've had my money printers no clip raided on a daily basis. They state they are a family friendly server but are extremely homophobic. The amount of times I've been called a "gay ass faggot" by admins is atrocious, but they know they can get away with it, so they do it anyhows.
You don't play on ByB to RP, you can't. No one roleplays, they only sit in their house on their computers to sit in a virtual house watching virtual printers count. It's a server wide printer farm, worse and more intrusive than TF2's hatconomy.
ByB roleplay is a server to troll. It will always be a server to troll. Honestly, spending 5 minutes there could feed a troll for a week. It's a place where everyone tries to get everyone else banned, it's RP based on metagame.
The fact that you won't accept any of the demos and videos that nigerian uploads are evidence is pitiful too. Yes, he does troll and try to piss off admins, but he shows what these admins will do if they are angry at a regular player. He just speeds up the process by enraging the admins first, making them forget about responsibility and attack without thinking, banning on sight. What he's showing you is how these admins react to pressure and how likely they are to abuse.
Banning 197 admins is not a success, it's just a cover up for failure. No community should have to ban about 10 admins a month like your sbans say.
Ugh I give in trying to get this back to a decent conversation. I really was up for a decent discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of admin/commercial communities. But nope, you don't give a fuck.
You just want to say the same things over and over again, Pigeon/Nigerian always end up in the same threads twisting it to the same old shit. (And Neo Kabuto stop rating there same post informative, for months and months they spout the same lines. It can't ALWAYS be informative. If you're at least going to stalk your friends and rate there posts make them make sense, like "Agree" etc).
Screw the conversation on a decent topic then huh.
This topic was doomed from the start. If byb doesn't want to change then fine but you don't need to warn anyone on facepunch.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37926246]Ugh I give in trying to get this back to a decent conversation. I really was up for a decent discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of admin/commercial communities. But nope, you don't give a fuck.
You just want to say the same things over and over again, Pigeon/Nigerian always end up in the same threads twisting it to the same old shit. (And Neo Kabuto stop rating there same post informative, for months and months they spout the same lines. It can't ALWAYS be informative. If you're at least going to stalk your friends and rate there posts make them make sense, like "Agree" etc).
Screw the conversation on a decent topic then huh.[/QUOTE]
Except you were the one who got this off topic by implying the thread was directed at you, which was taking the trollbait. You should know by now, being the leader of a huge community and such. NEVER, EVER feed the trolls, they will only come back for more.
Don't get neo involved, he has nothing to do with this and frankly, no offense neo, I have no idea who the fuck he is.
Please, stop feeding the trolls. They are getting too fat.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37926246] (And Neo Kabuto stop rating there same post informative, for months and months they spout the same lines. It can't ALWAYS be informative. If you're at least going to stalk your friends and rate there posts make them make sense, like "Agree" etc)[/QUOTE]
Then I should rate you late for calling me out on... using the rating system how I want to every thread like this?
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;37926308]Then I should rate you late for calling me out on... using the rating system how I want to every thread like this?[/QUOTE]
True, but you should still use it properly. I do love the rating system, just seems silly when people use it incorrectly.
& Actually Pigeon I was discussing the subject topic until you switched it directly to community admin based in post #17 [URL]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1215517&p=37886927&viewfull=1#post37886927[/URL] and then your friend Nigerian quoted and enhanced on in post #19. Yes I expected you and nigerian would twist the subject. Which is why I didn't reply to 17 or 19, I didn't plan to reply anymore but then Deon did his usual essay thing and I had to correct Nigerians post, because we all know he struggles to read perfectly formed sentences. He just selects the words and lines he prefers ;)
But I actually wanted an honest decent subject about a decent topic. Which is why I actually PM'd Nigerian directly regarding my points about ByB's system instead of including them in my post.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37926382]True, but you should still use it properly. I do love the rating system, just seems silly when people use it incorrectly.
& Actually Pigeon I was discussing the subject topic until you switched it directly to community admin based in post #17 [URL]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1215517&p=37886927&viewfull=1#post37886927[/URL] and then your friend Nigerian quoted and enhanced on in post #19. Yes I expected you and nigerian would twist the subject. [/QUOTE]
Except all I did was rebut your claim that selling admin doesn't give you shitty admins.
I did not aim this thread solely at ByB as I explained to Pantho in a PM already. But they are one of the central communities that would come up in any conversation like this because that is what their reputation is.
[editline]5th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pantho;37926246]Ugh I give in trying to get this back to a decent conversation. I really was up for a decent discussion on the advantages and disadvantages of admin/commercial communities. But nope, you don't give a fuck.
You just want to say the same things over and over again, Pigeon/Nigerian always end up in the same threads twisting it to the same old shit. (And Neo Kabuto stop rating there same post informative, for months and months they spout the same lines. It can't ALWAYS be informative. If you're at least going to stalk your friends and rate there posts make them make sense, like "Agree" etc).
Screw the conversation on a decent topic then huh.[/QUOTE]
Actually AFAIK I dont know either Neo or A pigeon and the fact they are posting of their own accord just shows that not everyone loves ByB and we all share similar criticisms that you would rather ignore.
As usual the easiest way to dismiss criticism is accuse everyone of being a nigerian alt or a nigerian sympathiser.
Inb4 garry newman is a nigerian alt.
[editline]5th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pantho;37926084]The video is taken out of perspective, by a guy using hacks no less, the video was a bunch of people playing around in RP5 spawn. Rare occasion.[/quote]
Except you always say that same line about all evidence. Everything is out of context. Everyone is an ALT.
It's never "this is a disturbing video, and although I can't judge that exact situation I will talk to some of the players involved"
or
"we will try and improve xyz"
[editline]5th October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pantho;37926382]& Actually Pigeon I was discussing the subject topic until you switched it directly to community admin based in post #17 [URL]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1215517&p=37886927&viewfull=1#post37886927[/URL] and then your friend Nigerian quoted and enhanced on in post #19. Yes I expected you and nigerian would twist the subject. Which is why I didn't reply to 17 or 19, I didn't plan to reply anymore but then Deon did his usual essay thing and I had to correct Nigerians post, because we all know he struggles to read perfectly formed sentences. He just selects the words and lines he prefers ;)[/QUOTE]
Actually you were the one who replied out of the blue to a response I wrote to another community entirely.
And yes, my writing may be a bit off, it's been a few years since my journalist years.
Deon made claims that I type in TXT shorthand or some such which I'm sure most people here can attest to as being false--the rest of his argument was just bloat. He put in some statistics, and I challenged those statistics with my own data and claims; he has made no attempt since then to reply to my challenge.
If you and Deon feel there is some factual information that he presented that I have failed to digest, please bring it to my attention once more and I will give you my opinion.
This is just plain dumb. We're running free servers here, like in any other game. Running it from OUR hardware. Whether or not people decide to donate or not is a matter of choice. Suppose I wanted to give x player $10 out of the blue. Your logic? "HEY MAN, SINCE GOT FREE MONEY LETS LET VALVE GET A CUT OF THAT HUHUH-"
[QUOTE=Dark Slayre;37926770]This is just plain dumb. We're running free servers here, like in any other game. Running it from OUR hardware. Whether or not people decide to donate or not is a matter of choice. Suppose I wanted to give x player $10 out of the blue. Your logic? "HEY MAN, SINCE GOT FREE MONEY LETS LET VALVE GET A CUT OF THAT HUHUH-"[/QUOTE]
Most people don't have any problem with servers getting plain donations. It's the incentives for donating that cause more debate. Should donators get in-game benefits that can disrupt the game, but make you easy money? Should players be able to pay for admin rights?
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;37926890]Most people don't have any problem with servers getting plain donations. It's the incentives for donating that cause more debate. Should donators get in-game benefits that can disrupt the game, but make you easy money? Should players be able to pay for admin rights?[/QUOTE]
Yes and IIRC it is against the EULA to charge access to a server (could be wrong though); does removing a large portion of the features of a game mean the same thing?
And for the record I've probably donated somewhere between $100-$200 to various servers over time. Most of the time I've received no benefit at all, and on some I have received small non game breaking benefits.
Their server, their rules. If they want pay2win shit, let them be satisfied with their terrible result.
[QUOTE=Dark Slayre;37926941]Their server, their rules. If they want pay2win shit, let them be satisfied with their terrible result.[/QUOTE]
Yes that's true.
I think there is also a distinction between paid admin and pay2win--IMHO ByB is both of these as they remove some game critical features for any normal players.
[QUOTE=pokemonman;37926999]Yes that's true.
I think there is also a distinction between paid admin and pay2win--IMHO ByB is both of these as they remove some game critical features for any normal players.[/QUOTE]
I'm always open to opinions, what critical features are removed?
I can only think of one, and in fairness it was removed due to the insane annoyance of idiots.
That "ByB" Community is a Dark RP server, why does Facepunch care about it?
[QUOTE=Pantho;37927143]I'm always open to opinions, what critical features are removed?
I can only think of one, and in fairness it was removed due to the insane annoyance of idiots.[/QUOTE]
demote as well as a whole bunch of money printers. You pretty much cant profit from the normal money printers.
There are certain jobs that are donator only (ie that ridiculous class that has a crossbow that donators whore 24/7)
It just makes the game extremely biased towards donators. Those arent aesthetic features they are game breaking in the world of darkrp.
Demote is so incredibly important when people like admins or supporters take jobs like gun dealer and then sell no weapons ann most admins use the admin rank as a glorified donator rank and rarely help out the players (it also buys them technicAl immunity from other admins)
DarkRP generally attracts lots of kids depending on how its setup
kids + paid admin = loads a money
kids in general = DDoS everywhere
DDoS protection = loads a costs
Its a tradeoff I guess
[editline]6th October 2012[/editline]
Also really, demote was removed from there because literally 95% of all demotes were stupid as shit, normally an admin or donator would demote them if they were actually being shit
[QUOTE=pokemonman;37927234]demote as well as a whole bunch of money printers. You pretty much cant profit from the normal money printers.
There are certain jobs that are donator only (ie that ridiculous class that has a crossbow that donators whore 24/7)
It just makes the game extremely biased towards donators. Those arent aesthetic features they are game breaking in the world of darkrp.
Demote is so incredibly important when people like admins or supporters take jobs like gun dealer and then sell no weapons ann most admins use the admin rank as a glorified donator rank and rarely help out the players (it also buys them technicAl immunity from other admins)[/QUOTE]
Crossbow is no where near the most powerful weapon anymore, I do admit it was overpowered though. The jobs are not to overpowered, I'd say SWAT & Secret Agent are due to Armor. But as on the P2P scale I wouldn't consider it a major ability, I mean people need a reason to buy supporter. Granted you can have your opinion on if this is fair but it's not something I plan to remove. Printers? Yea, it's a fast track. But you can definitely make money from regular printers. You can have 5 regular printers, 3 normal and 2 gold. There are 2 supporter printers, these 2 printers actually print the same as gold I believe so it's not a major bonus really. Granted it is more printers, but they also cost more than gold but print the same, but they don't explode at random only when shot. Again, it is a game changing bonus but economy isn't exactly the a feature of DarkRP but the bonus to having the VIP printers isn't insane, it works out at about 20% I think, my maths sucks.
The demote is the one I meant that came to mind, but this really wasn't moved to ranked classes for any form of profit reasons. You won't find it listed as a 'feature' on the VIP pages at all. It was getting to the insane case of people couldn't stay a job for more than a few minutes and proving demote abuse is tricky as it's all situational based. Everyone lies and you can't take peoples word for fact. We've a feature planned where players receive some abilities after XX time played for Gmod13, demote would be one of these where regulars get the command after player for a while or buy VIP. Buying VIP or investing time into a server means you are less likely to be a random minge trolling all the servers.
See, posts like that (one quoted) and this are decent discussions to the topic subject :).
Good boy! (I had to post something silly)
[QUOTE=Tobba;37927279]DarkRP generally attracts lots of kids depending on how its setup
kids + paid admin = loads a money
kids in general = DDoS everywhere
DDoS protection = loads a costs
Its a tradeoff I guess
[editline]6th October 2012[/editline]
Also really, demote was removed from there because literally 95% of all demotes were stupid as shit, normally an admin or donator would demote them if they were actually being shit[/QUOTE]
Except if you are a normal player they usually dont reply
It is all admins helping out their friends.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37927143]I'm always open to opinions, what critical features are removed?
I can only think of one, and in fairness it was removed due to the insane annoyance of idiots.[/QUOTE]
What's missing from it is RP. The unfourtuneate thing about making upgraded money printers a supporter bonus is, well, that's all supporters do. The RP side that ByB may have once had has been lost to the fact that money printer farms are all that appear. Roleplayers don't roleplay and instead sit in their bases, constantly spamming the 911 police call command to attempt to bring cops to their base in search of action. Thing is, your RP #4 and 5 servers are giant money printer farms.
[b]Ontopic:[/b]
I think that servers should be allowed to make money off their community, as long as some of it goes back to researching and improving the servers, the problem is, this doesn't happen. Communities start to loose touch with why they got this money in the first place, because they provided a great experience.
Buying admin is a stupid idea. It should never be done, it just lets people who aren't fit to administrate servers administrate them. The kind of people who are trollbait, and cause huge ass drama like this that's all over a fucking game of gmod. It just causes to much grief and butthurt and can tear a community apart.
I prefer when servers take a VIP approach, that gives players a unique weapon or some sort of status symbol, and enables something like a votekick system. VIP should not be a pay to win class however. Stripping features such as the demote system and making them donator only is a bad idea, it only screws over the little guys who get abused and cant do anything about it. Players should always have some sort of way of protecting themselves against abuse. The VIP class should also not block out certain jobs, but rather, increase the benefits of some. Rising the pay of a police officer and giving him a slightly better pistol is a good option. Making a completely overpowered SWAT class that doubles the health of a police officer, and spawns with a fully automatic weapon is not a good donator class, it promotes a pay to win environment. Also, stripping out jobs such as hitman that exist in the default DarkRP environment are bad ideas.
Basically, servers should be making money off their players because the players like their server, and want to help it out. Making money off slight VIP classes is alright, just as long as they are reasonable. Game balance and experience should ALWAYS come before monetary goals. Servers shouldn't be making money off pay to win or micro-transaction servers, especially ones that sell things that [b] in the default gamemode[/b].
If I were to reply I would just be repeating what pigeon said
[QUOTE=Tobba;37927279]DarkRP generally attracts lots of kids depending on how its setup
kids + paid admin = loads a money
kids in general = DDoS everywhere
DDoS protection = loads a costs
Its a tradeoff I guess
[editline]6th October 2012[/editline]
Also really, demote was removed from there because literally 95% of all demotes were stupid as shit, normally an admin or donator would demote them if they were actually being shit[/QUOTE]
Good community = low amounts of DDOS
If kids love the server and enjoy playing it, why would they DDOS it? When a community is good and keeps tempers down, DDOS protection is not needed as badly. DDOS protection should be covered in the costs of the donators. A lot of servers work on this model, sometimes it takes some to earn some.
Hitman isn't in the default DarkRP job files is he, I actually don't think I've ever looked at the default job list properly though.
Either way I won't disagree that Supporter/VIP gives you a gameplay advantage. I guess our opinions vary in the amount of advantage they give you and what is fair. And as I've said, we didn't move Demote for any monetary gains at ALL. It's moved because people are dicks at times, sad as it is. And I've plans to let people obtain that ability without buying anything.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37927946]Hitman isn't in the default DarkRP job files is he, I actually don't think I've ever looked at the default job list properly though.
Either way I won't disagree that Supporter/VIP gives you a gameplay advantage. I guess our opinions vary in the amount of advantage they give you and what is fair. And as I've said, we didn't move Demote for any monetary gains at ALL. It's moved because people are dicks at times, sad as it is. And I've plans to let people obtain that ability without buying anything.[/QUOTE]
The hitman is in most darkrp builds, problem is though, DarkRP is like linux, there's too many versions and branches to decide what is and what's not.
The best way to decide on your balance issues is to ask the community that plays with them. Just see what complaints pop up about them, see if they're legitimate, and if so fix them. No class should really have a definite and sizeable advantage over any other is usually a good rule to follow. You should also see how such jobs influence other jobs, for example, giving too many guns to a VIP class may cause problems for Gundealers and others who can't make money when no one wants their service as they already spawn with said weapons.
As for your demote problems, possibly give admins the ability to stop a demote as long as it's not against them? I will admit people can be dicks at times, but just because some people are dicks doesn't mean you should punish every one. Even the people with paid demote access will abuse it.
[QUOTE=Pantho;37927946]Hitman isn't in the default DarkRP job files is he, I actually don't think I've ever looked at the default job list properly though.
Either way I won't disagree that Supporter/VIP gives you a gameplay advantage. I guess our opinions vary in the amount of advantage they give you and what is fair. And as I've said, we didn't move Demote for any monetary gains at ALL. It's moved because people are dicks at times, sad as it is. And I've plans to let people obtain that ability without buying anything.[/QUOTE]
Yes but the fact remains that demote is tied to a purchase. A purchase says nothing of anyone's ability whatsoever.
I also wanted to say that teaching people that donations should equate to purchases is wrong. People will then never understand why servers are run by the 'community' and in a non profit manner. I mostly object to byb being called a community when it is in actual fact a store. You cannot play properly without purchases.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;37927923]Good community = low amounts of DDOS
If kids love the server and enjoy playing it, why would they DDOS it? When a community is good and keeps tempers down, DDOS protection is not needed as badly. DDOS protection should be covered in the costs of the donators. A lot of servers work on this model, sometimes it takes some to earn some.[/QUOTE]
There was a point in GMod where if you banned someone from a server it would miraculously disappear from the serverlist a few minutes later..
[QUOTE=Banana Lord.;37928353]There was a point in GMod where if you banned someone from a server it would miraculously disappear from the serverlist a few minutes later..[/QUOTE]
Which is where the keeping tempers down part comes into play, revenge DDOS can't be stopped completely, some people will DDOS no matter what, but keeping players happy on the server, and explaining to them why they are getting banned without causing anger can stop some. DDOS protection is a must for gmod servers sadly, but it helps to not piss off every single player you are about to ban. The cooler their attitude towards the server, the less likely they are to DDOS it.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;37928456]Which is where the keeping tempers down part comes into play, revenge DDOS can't be stopped completely, some people will DDOS no matter what, but keeping players happy on the server, and explaining to them why they are getting banned without causing anger can stop some. DDOS protection is a must for gmod servers sadly, but it helps to not piss off every single player you are about to ban. The cooler their attitude towards the server, the less likely they are to DDOS it.[/QUOTE]
People who have tools to ddos are probably going to do it no matter what, but I agree why whip your whores before you throw then in cages. However network attacks are extremely popular for gaming now, oh this server has more players, this server banned me etc etc. We had an extensive hit last week which we managed to block because I refused to unban a guy. This guy had used stolen credit cards to buy 6 steam accounts & 6 sets of VIP. He insisted I unban him or face ddos, this stuff cannot be helped no matter how tactful you think you can be.
Back in my day[2006]... People weren't assholes.
You didn't ban someone because you were a pussy who couldn't take criticism, and if you were banned from a server it was usually under a respected reason and if it wasn't you put up a valid ban appeal.
Now you got major communities supporting terrorism and the usage of DoS/DDoS programs against other communities creating a mass vacuum, where new players are falling victim to a xenophobic mindset... Stubbing progress and new concepts from being fathomed over the fear of being attacked by contenders.
What the fuck happened, man.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;37928562]Back in my day[2006]... People weren't assholes.
You didn't ban someone because you were a pussy who couldn't take criticism, and if you were banned from a server it was usually under a respected reason and if it wasn't you put up a valid ban appeal.
Now you got major communities supporting terrorism and the usage of DoS/DDoS programs against other communities creating a mass vacuum, where new players are falling victim to a xenophobic mindset... Stubbing progress and new concepts from being fathomed over the fear of being attacked by contenders.
What the fuck happened, man.[/QUOTE]
Money.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
