[QUOTE=MonkeysLP;38541302][B]"special features that every player should be getting"[/B]...[B]hundreds a month and I'll make all VIP features free for everyone. :)[/B][/QUOTE]
Oh God, sorry but i just can't stop thinking about this song when i look at this.
[video=youtube;ON-7v4qnHP8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-7v4qnHP8[/video]
[QUOTE=MonkeysLP;38541302]But we don't sell admin. As for "special features that every player should be getting" - feel free to offer us free hosting at the same quality we are getting for a couple hundreds a month and I'll make all VIP features free for everyone. :)[/QUOTE]
Hosting isn't a right, it's a luxury. Not having the money doesn't excuse you. You don't [I]have[/I] to run a server, so making it shitty is just making a shitty server. There's nothing else to it. Arguing against such a simple concept is delusion.
I've played on Lifepunch a few times, and originally praised its Jailbreak and Deathrun servers. Since I haven't played it since, that still stands.
I try not to take sides in drama, seeing as how I'm almost nonexistent these days, but it really is something that needs to be said.
[QUOTE=Deprehensio;38544535]Hosting isn't a right, it's a luxury. Not having the money doesn't excuse you. You don't [I]have[/I] to run a server, so making it shitty is just making a shitty server. There's nothing else to it. Arguing against such a simple concept is delusion.
I've played on Lifepunch a few times, and originally praised its Jailbreak and Deathrun servers. Since I haven't played it since, that still stands.
I try not to take sides in drama, seeing as how I'm almost nonexistent these days, but it really is something that needs to be said.[/QUOTE]
I don't think I see your point.
No, he doesn't [i]have[/i] to run a server, but he [i]wants[/i] to run a server. And a nice server usually necessitates having nice hosting services to work with. Nice hosting services cost money, this is what Monkeys is saying.
So are you saying a community that can pay for itself is a bad community?
[QUOTE=KingofBeast;38544686]So are you saying a community that can pay for itself is a bad community?[/QUOTE]
No. Any community that sacrifices its quality or reputation for monetary gain is a bad community.
What you're saying is, for lack of a better term, pretty asinine.
I run servers because I ENJOY running servers. I enjoy building a community and the community I've built around my servers is something I wouldn't give up for anything in the world. I love all our regulars and I've made some incredible friends off my community - I'm closer to some people in my community than I am with my friends in real life. There are members who came to me and genuinely and heartily thanked me for creating LifePunch, that it gave them a much needed "escape" from a sometimes difficult real life. That it made them feel wanted, welcome, liked and skilled (which they really are to me). Those are moments and friendships I wouldn't have encountered if I didn't create my community.
Running these servers comes at a COST which, in our case, is of a couple hundred dollars a month. Certain individuals are willing to help me cover these costs by donating money. In exchange, I decide, out of my own good will, to give them little "bonuses" that do not affect the gameplay WHATSOEVER. They get:
Extra in-game currency ([B]Which can be obtained just as easily without donating anything. It's just a little extra. Also, it's used to buy primarily cosmetic/non-gameplay altering things like models, hats, etc. Which you absolutely do not need to enjoy the servers whatsoever, but you can still afford without ever donating.)[/B]
Reserved slot ([B]Doesn't mean you can't join. There are 24 or 20 slots on our servers and only 2 of them are reserved)[/B]
A (VIP) next to your name (Once again, doesn't change squat shit at all)
The ability to trigger !votekick (It's still a vote that must be voted on by everyone on the server, including people who didn't donate.) along with double votes.
Chat colors. (Once again doesn't affect squat shit at all)
Using your microphone while dead (This is a necessity since if everyone could use their microphone while dead, it would be a huge clusterfuck)
Access to the VIP board on the forums (Which is pretty much just people discussing stuff amongst each other, just like the GMF)
In other words; donators get nice little perks that do not affect the gameplay and no, they don't breed a clique of "elitism".
As for that making our servers being bad?
[IMG]http://puu.sh/1sS1M.jpg[/IMG]
That's just like, your opinion, man.
This whole witch hunt against servers who accept donations needs to just be dropped, move on with your lives. We're pouring hours of our day developing these gamemodes and making sure our communities stay up. You think our servers suck? Great, luckily for you I'm not forcing you to play on my servers whatsoever not am I forcing them to be on your favorites'. You think you've got what it takes to make better gamemodes and servers than mine? That's also great, PLEASE do. We could use more, original servers. Maybe once you do that you'll come to realise that hosting servers on Garry's Mod is costly due to numerous factors (see: constant DDoS attacks, high CPU usage, high bandwidth usage, etc.)
Selling admin isn't a good thing? I perfectly agree. Which is why I don't sell admin on my servers. I sell moderators (aka kick/slay/mute/gag, but no ban) - and they have to pass an application which we handle on a case to case basis before their Steam ID is enabled to being able to buy it and it's pretty expensive, so only people who are truly dedicated/really want to help administrate end up buying it and it's worked impeccably. Yet that once again, is only my opinion. I've seen servers that do "sell admin" that work absolutely flawlessly because they have staff supervising the individuals who bought admin and deal with abuse swiftly (see: The D3vine).
Honestly, at this point it's turned into bitching for the sake of bitching.
If you don't like a server, just don't play on it, it really and truly is that simple. Even better; make your own server and prove us all community owners wrong and how terrible we are at running servers and communities by doing it even better than us. Hell, once you've done that, you can even come rub it in my face and I'll accept it heartily. But up until now, all I've seen is unfounded and nonconstructive criticism without any real concrete evidence to prove to me that I'm doing it wrong.
P.S: I don't do it for the money at all. For those times where we get more money than we need to pay the bills, I tend to give back to my community: [URL]http://puu.sh/1sSfk[/URL] - not only by buying a shit ton of Steam games and giving them for free, but I also "tip" people who help us out (aka our programmer, mappers, etc.)
@Other community owners: keep rocking, no matter how much shit you get from people on FacePunch, your playercounts means you're doing something right.
I've been on LifePunch, and I must say it's a fun and generous community. You can always experience bad things sometimes, and that happens everywhere.
You've made this difficult to reply to, because it really is a well thought out response. But, I will do my best for the sake of discussion. Note, here, that I'm not against you. As I've said before, I like your servers, and have enjoyed them in the past. I am just saying what needs saying. A devil's advocate, if you will.
So, let's continue.
[QUOTE]This whole witch hunt against servers who accept donations needs to just be dropped, move on with your lives. We're pouring hours of our day developing these gamemodes and making sure our communities stay up. You think our servers suck? Great, luckily for you I'm not forcing you to play on my servers whatsoever not am I forcing them to be on your favorites'. You think you've got what it takes to make better gamemodes and servers than mine? That's also great, PLEASE do. We could use more, original servers. Maybe once you do that you'll come to realise that hosting servers on Garry's Mod is costly due to numerous factors (see: constant DDoS attacks, high CPU usage, high bandwidth usage, etc.)[/QUOTE]
Accepting donations for things that does no impact gameplay or the experience of other players is perfectly fine, and I would do it myself. Selling moderator, for any reason, is a bad thing.
Trust me, I know how it feels to spend many hours a day on development. I've coded for quite a few projects (non-gmod), and even now am typing this as I compile stuff for another. This doesn't mean you can dismiss criticism. If anything, you should welcome it.
I do indeed think I have what it takes to make better gamemodes. In fact, I'm positive I could, given a fair amount of time. That's not what we're discussing, and I don't see why you bring it up.
I've hosted for Gmod before, and have dealt with these problems. I've also hosted for a couple other games with similarly immature communities. These can be dealt with rather easily, given the skill and time. Complaining about technical problems isn't what we're talking about, either.
[QUOTE]But up until now, all I've seen is unfounded and nonconstructive criticism without any real concrete evidence to prove to me that I'm doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
I don't see any evidence that to the contrary, either. My criticism isn't unfounded, but is more difficult to back up with hard evidence than I care to take on. Overall, though, you're acting childish. You're an adult, and a server owner. You should be able to take criticism without launching into long rants.
[QUOTE]P.S: I don't do it for the money at all. For those times where we get more money than we need to pay the bills, I tend to give back to my community[/QUOTE]
You could always, instead of spending it, put it toward future costs or upgrades. People don't donate to give other people games. They do it to improve the experience.
[QUOTE]your playercounts means you're doing something right.[/QUOTE]
Size doesn't imply quality.
Nazi & French Servers. Getting banned from a french server for FUCKING SAYING HI
Nazi servers because they are nazi bastards
[QUOTE=MonkeysLP;38545425]-oh man-[/QUOTE]
alright, i retract my statement, you're pretty level headed about everything you do
just dont pull the "make your own server with millions of dollars a month" thing because fuck it makes me sad that im poor and cant do it
[QUOTE=radiomonster;38546254]alright, i retract my statement, you're pretty level headed about everything you do
just dont pull the "make your own server with millions of dollars a month" thing because fuck it makes me sad that im poor and cant do it[/QUOTE]
Same here :(
[QUOTE=MonkeysLP;38545425]-good stuff-[/QUOTE]
Well said, Monkeys. I think what a lot of people fail to realize is that, at the end of the day, these servers take time and money to run. Money can't materialize by itself (especially if you're a student like me), and if giving something in return is what is needed to pay the bills then so be it. While I don't agree with giving moderation tools in return for a donation, I can understand if applicants are screened before being given the controls.
As for me, I'd pay my moderators if I had the money to cover running costs. Rather than be paid, I, like you, value the community and all that comes with that. My friends often ask me why I do it, they can't understand why I'd spend hours dealing with it, and they don't even know half of what goes into it. I assume the same is true of most people, which is probably what leads to this thread
[QUOTE=MonkeysLP;38545425]What you're saying is, for lack of a better term, pretty asinine.
I run servers because I ENJOY running servers. I enjoy building a community and the community I've built around my servers is something I wouldn't give up for anything in the world. I love all our regulars and I've made some incredible friends off my community - I'm closer to some people in my community than I am with my friends in real life. There are members who came to me and genuinely and heartily thanked me for creating LifePunch, that it gave them a much needed "escape" from a sometimes difficult real life. That it made them feel wanted, welcome, liked and skilled (which they really are to me). Those are moments and friendships I wouldn't have encountered if I didn't create my community.
Running these servers comes at a COST which, in our case, is of a couple hundred dollars a month. Certain individuals are willing to help me cover these costs by donating money. In exchange, I decide, out of my own good will, to give them little "bonuses" that do not affect the gameplay WHATSOEVER. They get:
Extra in-game currency ([B]Which can be obtained just as easily without donating anything. It's just a little extra. Also, it's used to buy primarily cosmetic/non-gameplay altering things like models, hats, etc. Which you absolutely do not need to enjoy the servers whatsoever, but you can still afford without ever donating.)[/B]
Reserved slot ([B]Doesn't mean you can't join. There are 24 or 20 slots on our servers and only 2 of them are reserved)[/B]
A (VIP) next to your name (Once again, doesn't change squat shit at all)
The ability to trigger !votekick (It's still a vote that must be voted on by everyone on the server, including people who didn't donate.) along with double votes.
Chat colors. (Once again doesn't affect squat shit at all)
Using your microphone while dead (This is a necessity since if everyone could use their microphone while dead, it would be a huge clusterfuck)
Access to the VIP board on the forums (Which is pretty much just people discussing stuff amongst each other, just like the GMF)
In other words; donators get nice little perks that do not affect the gameplay and no, they don't breed a clique of "elitism".
As for that making our servers being bad?
[IMG]http://puu.sh/1sS1M.jpg[/IMG]
That's just like, your opinion, man.
This whole witch hunt against servers who accept donations needs to just be dropped, move on with your lives. We're pouring hours of our day developing these gamemodes and making sure our communities stay up. You think our servers suck? Great, luckily for you I'm not forcing you to play on my servers whatsoever not am I forcing them to be on your favorites'. You think you've got what it takes to make better gamemodes and servers than mine? That's also great, PLEASE do. We could use more, original servers. Maybe once you do that you'll come to realise that hosting servers on Garry's Mod is costly due to numerous factors (see: constant DDoS attacks, high CPU usage, high bandwidth usage, etc.)
Selling admin isn't a good thing? I perfectly agree. Which is why I don't sell admin on my servers. I sell moderators (aka kick/slay/mute/gag, but no ban) - and they have to pass an application which we handle on a case to case basis before their Steam ID is enabled to being able to buy it and it's pretty expensive, so only people who are truly dedicated/really want to help administrate end up buying it and it's worked impeccably. Yet that once again, is only my opinion. I've seen servers that do "sell admin" that work absolutely flawlessly because they have staff supervising the individuals who bought admin and deal with abuse swiftly (see: The D3vine).
Honestly, at this point it's turned into bitching for the sake of bitching.
If you don't like a server, just don't play on it, it really and truly is that simple. Even better; make your own server and prove us all community owners wrong and how terrible we are at running servers and communities by doing it even better than us. Hell, once you've done that, you can even come rub it in my face and I'll accept it heartily. But up until now, all I've seen is unfounded and nonconstructive criticism without any real concrete evidence to prove to me that I'm doing it wrong.
P.S: I don't do it for the money at all. For those times where we get more money than we need to pay the bills, I tend to give back to my community: [URL]http://puu.sh/1sSfk[/URL] - not only by buying a shit ton of Steam games and giving them for free, but I also "tip" people who help us out (aka our programmer, mappers, etc.)
@Other community owners: keep rocking, no matter how much shit you get from people on FacePunch, your playercounts means you're doing something right.[/QUOTE]
I think there is a real distinction between your servers and some of the others being criticized on here.
This isn't a "witchhunt" against servers that accept donations; this is a smear campaign against servers that have a repeated tendency to have absolutely no moral compass with the way they sell administration rights on their servers. This is a witchhunt against servers that had more than a few chances to correct what they were doing wrong, but their owners sit here time and time again trying to deny anything is wrong; even if they admit to something being wrong they still won't change a single thing.
It's against servers that are pay2win. It's against servers that sell out admin abilities to little kids who have no place at all with full admin rights running around physgunning people around the place and acting like little shits. It's against servers which run a "community" and not a community. It's against servers who have admins who are involved in DDoS attacks. It's against servers where admins can disrespect you but you cannot disrespect them.
All due respect, you're not running DarkRP or RP servers (from what I can see) so you probably don't get 1/100th of the drama because your gamemodes are "fun". I've personally played on lifepunch before and I found it fun.
Again, you're not running RP (although jailbreak does have its share of drama).
The servers this "witchhunt" are against chose their place that they are in right now. This "witchhunt" is about servers which cut a 4 figure profit each and every month and are douchebags.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Alt of permabanned user" - Starpluck))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Deprehensio;38545945]
Size doesn't imply quality.[/QUOTE]
You can't really choose your playerbase. With risk of sounding cliché, the playerbase chooses you. It's a struggle for me to find acceptable admins/moderators, in the sea of so many unacceptable ones. The lack of moderators leads to obvious problems, and we go into a spiral. Just pointing that out, I agree with everything you've said apart from this
[QUOTE=Trumple;38546779]You can't really choose your playerbase. With risk of sounding cliché, the playerbase chooses you. It's a struggle for me to find acceptable admins/moderators, in the sea of so many unacceptable ones. The lack of moderators leads to obvious problems, and we go into a spiral. Just pointing that out, I agree with everything you've said apart from this[/QUOTE]
What you've said is correct. An administrator/owner is just like everyone else. The playerbase chooses you for the ability to make good decisions, to be fair and unbiased, and to run the community with its best interests at heart.
But you can't say that the bigger the community, the better it is. It's all subjective to the community and its members, not the size. Just because you have a lot of people doesn't make it good. I'll sarcastically invoke [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law"]Godwin's law[/URL], and say: Nazis had loads of members, too.
[QUOTE=Deprehensio;38546943]What you've said is correct. An administrator/owner is just like everyone else. The playerbase chooses you for the ability to make good decisions, to be fair and unbiased, and to run the community with its best interests at heart.
But you can't say that the bigger the community, the better it is. It's all subjective to the community and its members, not the size. Just because you have a lot of people doesn't make it good. I'll sarcastically invoke [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law"]Godwin's law[/URL], and say: Nazis had loads of members, too.[/QUOTE]
There is a reason the playerbase chooses you. There is a reason so many servers are empty, and some are full to the brim. It isn't the same as the Nazi regime. Hitler tricked and promised the Germans things he did not provide to get into power. You can't compare that to this. People don't get tricked then forced into playing a server. Tricking, maybe, but what do you do when you get tricked into a server full of bots? Leave
So, while having a bad community that is huge isn't good, it isn't usually under anyone's control. If you can summon a mature community with a game, I'd be very surprised. It's like expecting the community of stackoverflow.com in reddit, it just wouldn't happen.
I really don't like the ByB servers, most of the administration are children who couldn't even comprehend the word 'admin'
I'd have to go with ByB servers, the admins are 10 year olds who borrowed their mom's credit card and throw a temper tantrum whenever they are proved wrong.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("alt" - Starpluck))[/highlight]
Servers that don't allow downloading the current running map.
I want to play Gmod, not search after a goddamn map.
[QUOTE=MonkeysLP;38545425]stuff.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I know you don't sell admin and all that stuff. Its just that literally 70% of the VIPs on the servers seem to be super elitist. Not something you can control but christ, I can't go on Lifepunch without a 13 year old who is named (VIP) RainbowDashWeedKillerGaming31 being a cunt. Still, its the community, not you.
[QUOTE=Deprehensio;38545945]You've made this difficult to reply to, because it really is a well thought out response. But, I will do my best for the sake of discussion. Note, here, that I'm not against you. As I've said before, I like your servers, and have enjoyed them in the past. I am just saying what needs saying. A devil's advocate, if you will.
So, let's continue.
Accepting donations for things that does no impact gameplay or the experience of other players is perfectly fine, and I would do it myself. Selling moderator, for any reason, is a bad thing.
Trust me, I know how it feels to spend many hours a day on development. I've coded for quite a few projects (non-gmod), and even now am typing this as I compile stuff for another. This doesn't mean you can dismiss criticism. If anything, you should welcome it.
I do indeed think I have what it takes to make better gamemodes. In fact, I'm positive I could, given a fair amount of time. That's not what we're discussing, and I don't see why you bring it up.
I've hosted for Gmod before, and have dealt with these problems. I've also hosted for a couple other games with similarly immature communities. These can be dealt with rather easily, given the skill and time. Complaining about technical problems isn't what we're talking about, either.
I don't see any evidence that to the contrary, either. My criticism isn't unfounded, but is more difficult to back up with hard evidence than I care to take on. Overall, though, you're acting childish. You're an adult, and a server owner. You should be able to take criticism without launching into long rants.
You could always, instead of spending it, put it toward future costs or upgrades. People don't donate to give other people games. They do it to improve the experience.
Size doesn't imply quality.[/QUOTE]
You ignored important parts of what I said, hence I'm not going to take the time to reply anymore.
[editline]22nd November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=The freeman;38548335]Hey, I know you don't sell admin and all that stuff. Its just that literally 70% of the VIPs on the servers seem to be super elitist. Not something you can control but christ, I can't go on Lifepunch without a 13 year old who is named (VIP) RainbowDashWeedKillerGaming31 being a cunt. Still, its the community, not you.[/QUOTE]
We actually have zero tolerance for that shit, honestly. I actually ban VIPs on a regular basis whenever I go through the logs and see votekick abuse.
If a VIP is ever acting like a little dickweed, grab screenshots/logs and post them on the forums and I'll handle it personally.
[B]Also remember, VIPs have no real power whatsoever. They are players just like anyone else. They can trigger a votekick against you but if you haven't done anything, the chances of it passing are very slim. And if you haven't done anything, try to record the whole situation and they will be banned for votekicking someone who hasn't broken the rules.[/B]
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