MOST stupid reason you got banned from a GMod server? - Garry's Mod

Just because I feel the need to post this, here's my take on a "proper" propkill-detecting script. Obviously not perfect, but it seems better than what some servers have: [url]http://pastebin.com/xXkRarqQ[/url] Works up until you smash a player against a wall, getting them killed by worldspawn. Any better than the one you saw, FPtje? Also detects hitting one prop into another to have the second prop kill someone.

Disconnect: Kicked by -=SEGOD=- DarkPyro(STEAM_0:0:41009565) (Banned for 5 minute(s): Your so fucking hardheaded). He was killing everyone as admin, killing 5 guys at once with a huge prop. I tried to stop him so I killed him, and I get banned.

Sprayed a logo, showing a Marijuana Leaf and havings words 'Smoke Weed, it's healthy'. Got banned with a reason "Drug Abuse"

[QUOTE=Jexkid;38998909]Sprayed a logo, showing a Marijuana Leaf and havings words 'Smoke Weed, it's healthy'. Got banned with a reason "Drug Abuse"[/QUOTE] Someone obviously hates the Rastafari movement.

[QUOTE=FPtje;38993828]It is annoying for prop killers, but disabling prop damage won't make prop killers unable to prop kill.[/QUOTE] Why not make a ConVar in FPP just for prop damage, so that they have a choice in the matter?

[QUOTE=FPtje;38994259]I think these scripts should be abandoned. Their purpose is to prevent prop killing. This purpose is simply not fulfilled. The only thing it's supposed to do is the one thing it cannot do. Besides, side effects are often annoying, well, they are in my opinion.[/QUOTE] I think murder should be legalized. The purpose of it being illegal is to prevent it. This purpose is simply not fulfilled. Besides, no one likes spending the rest of their lives in prison.

[QUOTE=.\\Shadow};38998476]Any better than the one you saw, FPtje? Also detects hitting one prop into another to have the second prop kill someone.[/QUOTE] No. And no it doesn't: [vid]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6766710/RP_Downtown_V2%202012-12-28%2011-40-33.webm[/vid] Output (I enabled the prints) [code]Physgun pickup Bot02 Physgun pickup (FPtje) Atheos Entity [178][prop_physics] hit Player [2][Bot02] Setting dmginfo attacker as Player [2][Bot02] because attacker was pushed: Player [2][Bot02] [/code] Bot got the blame for my kill. Also, it's piss easy to kill someone without getting any blame: Spawn a prop above someone's head and wait for it to drop on him: NO ONE will get the blame. To prove the correctness of an algorithm, you often need to prove both completeness and accuracy. Your algorithm is neither complete nor accurate: - It doesn't register all prop kills, as you've said yourself. - There are prop kills in which the system gives the wrong person the blame. The latter is disastrous, as I've shown in the video. [editline]28th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Nidalee;39002535]I think murder should be legalized. The purpose of it being illegal is to prevent it. This purpose is simply not fulfilled. Besides, no one likes spending the rest of their lives in prison.[/QUOTE] Strawman. Making something illegal does not prevent anything. The repercussions are slightly preventive because people don't want to get punished. Example: Weed is illegal in the Netherlands. However, there are no repercussions for having weed. Result: weed is not prevented. My point is that the [b]only[/b] thing the algorithms are supposed to do is the [b]one[/b] thing it [i]cannot[/i] do. I get that if it [i]helps[/i], that it might be better to have it. As an experienced prop killer, I say that the "help" such scripts provide is worthless. Prop killers only have to put a tiny bit more effort in getting someone killed. Believe me on my experience when I say that this effort really is tiny. I have quite some experience with anti prop kill scripts. I used to have a couple in FPP, Toggled in the FPP settings. I got rid of ALL of them because it was worthless. I still got complaints about prop killing, about the scripts not working. My prop killing friends taunted me, saying they were still able to prop kill, just like before FPP had it. I've tried ghosting props when you pick them up Disabling prop damage prop kill detection scripts, like the ones shown in the video (one of the reasons why I'm so much against them now, I learned my lesson) Back in the day when I prop killed for fun, I could get around [b]all[/b] of them, and [i]without[/i] much effort. The idea that these scripts help is an illusion. [highlight]they don't[/highlight]

Seeing how there's no hook that gets called when two entities actually collide, it doesn't seem like there's much possibility in properly detecting prop killing. When I said it detects hitting one prop into another, I was making the assumption you were letting go of the prop you push prior to it hitting the next, resulting in it damaging the second prop if it's going fast enough to prop kill someone. As shown in your video, if you're holding the first, it doesn't seem like it damages the second. (In short, it was a failed attempt.)

[QUOTE=FPtje;39002731]No. And no it doesn't: [vid]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6766710/RP_Downtown_V2%202012-12-28%2011-40-33.webm[/vid] Output (I enabled the prints) [code]Physgun pickup Bot02 Physgun pickup (FPtje) Atheos Entity [178][prop_physics] hit Player [2][Bot02] Setting dmginfo attacker as Player [2][Bot02] because attacker was pushed: Player [2][Bot02] [/code] Bot got the blame for my kill. Also, it's piss easy to kill someone without getting any blame: Spawn a prop above someone's head and wait for it to drop on him: NO ONE will get the blame. To prove the correctness of an algorithm, you often need to prove both completeness and accuracy. Your algorithm is neither complete nor accurate: - It doesn't register all prop kills, as you've said yourself. - There are prop kills in which the system gives the wrong person the blame. The latter is disastrous, as I've shown in the video. [editline]28th December 2012[/editline] Strawman. Making something illegal does not prevent anything. The repercussions are slightly preventive because people don't want to get punished. Example: Weed is illegal in the Netherlands. However, there are no repercussions for having weed. Result: weed is not prevented. My point is that the [b]only[/b] thing the algorithms are supposed to do is the [b]one[/b] thing it [i]cannot[/i] do. I get that if it [i]helps[/i], that it might be better to have it. As an experienced prop killer, I say that the "help" such scripts provide is worthless. Prop killers only have to put a tiny bit more effort in getting someone killed. Believe me on my experience when I say that this effort really is tiny. I have quite some experience with anti prop kill scripts. I used to have a couple in FPP, Toggled in the FPP settings. I got rid of ALL of them because it was worthless. I still got complaints about prop killing, about the scripts not working. My prop killing friends taunted me, saying they were still able to prop kill, just like before FPP had it. I've tried ghosting props when you pick them up Disabling prop damage prop kill detection scripts, like the ones shown in the video (one of the reasons why I'm so much against them now, I learned my lesson) Back in the day when I prop killed for fun, I could get around [b]all[/b] of them, and [i]without[/i] much effort. The idea that these scripts help is an illusion. [highlight]they don't[/highlight][/QUOTE] the scripts stop the 99% of people who propkill anyway because unlike you and your friends they don't spend all of their time playing this game doing such. on a large scale I'd much rather prevent 99% of it and have 1% inaccuracy then have admins manually catch people doing this kind of thing

These scripts don't work though! People get banned for the smallest things, and because ALMIGHTY MINGE-DETECTING 5000 says they propkilled someone, the admin will swiftly ban them. If you honestly wanna fix things, then fucking fix things. Gridlock the entire building system, enforce harsh restrictions via code, and takeaway the physgun/q menu if the player isn't in the building system. Don't halfass things which risk the Average Joe getting banned because the admins are lazy, and don't wish to do their jobs.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;39003053]These scripts don't work though! People get banned for the smallest things, and because ALMIGHTY MINGE-DETECTING 5000 says they propkilled someone, the admin will swiftly ban them. If you honestly wanna fix things, then fucking fix things. Gridlock the entire building system, enforce harsh restrictions via code, and takeaway the physgun/q menu if the player isn't in the building system. Don't halfass things which risk the Average Joe getting banned because the admins are lazy, and don't wish to do their jobs.[/QUOTE] all of this for 1 in 500 players who is going to go out of their way to abuse a system to get someone banned, which can be fixed by an admin in a few seconds? doesn't sound very logical to me

[QUOTE=Nidalee;39003085]all of this for 1 in 500 players who is going to go out of their way to abuse a system to get someone banned, which can be fixed by an admin in a few seconds? doesn't sound very logical to me[/QUOTE] The fact of the matter is if something is exploitable it'll come around and bite you on the ass. You should always fix the issue permanently, and ensure that it doesn't even happen in the first place.

[QUOTE=Nidalee;39002866]the scripts stop the 99% of people who propkill anyway because unlike you and your friends they don't spend all of their time playing this game doing such. on a large scale I'd much rather prevent 99% of it and have 1% inaccuracy then have admins manually catch people doing this kind of thing[/QUOTE] And these percentages are exactly the illusion I'm talking about. You're making them up and they can't be more wrong.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;39003096]The fact of the matter is if something is exploitable it'll come around and bite you on the ass. You should always fix the issue permanently, and ensure that it doesn't even happen in the first place.[/QUOTE] if the best way to fix the issue is having one of every 500 or so players you get getting banned for a couple of hours innocently(and the admins that are bound to be on and not be nearly as busy because they don't have to deal with constant propkilling can fix it in 2 minutes anyways) and therefore saving the rest of your players a whole lot of grief then I see pretty much no reason to not use said script

And what does it achieve when say... Five of these exploiters pop up? How about six? Maybe ten? I may be acting on the concept of slippery slope, but you should see through that you fix the problem entirely. If the system can be exploited or griefed, then its' not fixed.

Stop making up your fucking statistics. Besides, regardless of statistics, the fact that the system [b]can[/b] be abused and [b]is[/b] abused bot h before and after I made the video, is disastrous. I can't believe you accept that people get banned wrongly. False bans are the worst thing in GMod, that's why this fucking thread is here in the first place. You're advocating a script that hands out false bans. This [b]cannot[/b] be accepted [i]regardless[/i] of statistics. [editline]28th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;39003233]And what does it achieve when say... Five of these exploiters pop up? How about six? Maybe ten? I may be acting on the concept of slippery slope, but you should see through that you fix the problem entirely. If the system can be exploited or griefed, then its' not fixed.[/QUOTE] You're not on a slippery slope just yet. I can name five just from the top of my head. Five people who regularly abuse such systems.

It's probably possible via move hooks to prevent people being moved by anything other than themselves pressing keys. That should prevent people being flipped into the sky. (And neatly get rid of prop surfing too!) It's also possible to prevent props ever being unfrozen, which means you can't drop them on people's heads and produce fall damage. Add onto that props no longer doing any damage and bam, you've stopped prop killing. Any flaws?

yeah, massively fucking up genuine players. Seriously? Making people unable to get moved by anything except their own key presses? Admins picking up players would make them move without them pressing keys. If you make an exception for that, people are also stopped from running people over with vehicles. If someone is standing in a doorway, you can't push him away gently with a prop so you can walk by them (assuming player collision is on, like in most servers) Player objects will act like massive objects unable to be moved by anything. This fucks up the gameplay, it's stupid and it gets annoying really quickly. It's a ridiculous [i]hack[/i] to prevent prop killing. Not allowing unfrozen props? Even worse: - Doors that work with hydraulics, gone - Prop based vehicles, gone - ANY contraption that requires moving parts, gone. Would you give [b]all of that[/b] up to prevent prop killing? My trichotomy holds. As for Joey's suggestion where the system is gridlocked and the entire building mechanism is changed: This massively affects gameplay. The restrictions this system puts on [b]everyone[/b] are way over the top to prevent prop killing. Since it restricts genuine players in a negative way, my trichotomy holds.

[QUOTE=FPtje;39003690]yeah, massively fucking up genuine players. Seriously? Making people unable to get moved by anything except their own key presses? Admins picking up players would make them move without them pressing keys. If you make an exception for that, people are also stopped from running people over with vehicles. If someone is standing in a doorway, you can't push him away gently with a prop so you can walk by them (assuming player collision is on, like in most servers) Player objects will act like massive objects unable to be moved by anything. This fucks up the gameplay, it's stupid and it gets annoying really quickly. It's a ridiculous [i]hack[/i] to prevent prop killing. Not allowing unfrozen props? Even worse: - Doors that work with hydraulics, gone - Prop based vehicles, gone - ANY contraption that requires moving parts, gone. Would you give [b]all of that[/b] up to prevent prop killing? My trichotomy holds. As for Joey's suggestion where the system is gridlocked and the entire building mechanism is changed: This massively affects gameplay. The restrictions this system puts on [b]everyone[/b] are way over the top to prevent prop killing. Since it restricts genuine players in a negative way, my trichotomy holds.[/QUOTE] I agree, those 2 ideas would hurt gameplay way to much. However, I still hold that simply disabling prop damage would be the best fix. It is easy enough to stop them taking damage when smashed against a wall or when a prop falls on there head. I believe your old FPP 'antinoob' system did this? The ONLY negative effect would be self defence contraptions that kill players when they enter your base. To which on the vast majority of servers there not allowed anyway.

In many DarkRP servers, you respawn where you die when you kill yourself, or the kill command is disabled. There are situations where you'll want to kill yourself, like when you're stuck. People get stuck often enough. I've seen many people preferring prop killing themselves even when kill is not disabled.

[QUOTE=FPtje;38994259]I think these scripts should be abandoned. Their purpose is to prevent prop killing. This purpose is simply not fulfilled. The only thing it's supposed to do is the one thing it cannot do. Besides, side effects are often annoying, well, they are in my opinion.[/QUOTE] It's people like you why these scripts even have to be made. You're being such a hypocrite, here you're complaining about shitty anti-propkill scripts, while you're prop killing people in GMod? I cannot even understand why you care so much about false bans, stop doing that shit and maybe innocent people wouldn't have to get banned. You even talk about your 'experience' as a prop killer as if you were proud of it, you just ruin other players fun, how can you be proud of that? If you really care about this, stop prop killing people, and make a script to prevent it, otherwise shut the fuck up.

For servers that disallow prop pushing, prop doors, contraptions and so forth (aka most major servers), yes. Ad mins physgunning players is easy to add an exception for and vehicles tend to kill you on hit anyway.

[QUOTE=Assault_Trooper;39004063]It's people like you why these scripts even have to be made. You're being such a hypocrite, here you're complaining about shitty anti-propkill scripts, while you're prop killing people in GMod? I cannot even understand why you care so much about false bans, stop doing that shit and maybe innocent people wouldn't have to get banned. You even talk about your 'experience' as a prop killer as if you were proud of it, you just ruin other players fun, how can you be proud of that? If you really care about this, stop prop killing people, and make a script to prevent it, otherwise shut the fuck up.[/QUOTE] This is a personal attack. I have experience as a prop killer, but I haven't minged since 2009, with the exception of the video and UrbanGamers to prove a point. I didn't stop prop killing, I've been in tournaments, I've had fights with other prop killers etc. in a controlled environment. Much of my knowledge about prop killing and ways around prop killing come from myself back when I minged (not much has changed), my friends who still minge, and the scripts I've tried to make in the past that all failed. I am not a minge. I'm admin on Evicted-Gaming, I've been an admin on Duplex, NLG and several other servers. All of the owners of the servers say I'm an excellent admin, which I would never have been if I was a minge. And even if I was the biggest minge of this entire fucking game. It would [b]not[/b] make my arguments any less valid. Personal attacks are never valid arguments. [editline]28th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lexic;39004289](aka most major servers)[/QUOTE] Half of DarkRP is sandbox. Therefore, DarkRP allows building and contraptions in its very core.

[QUOTE=FPtje;39004598] I didn't stop prop killing, I've been in tournaments, I've had fights with other prop killers etc. in a controlled environment. [/QUOTE] Those exist!?! May I ask where?

This thread has been derailed badly.

[QUOTE=Poeish;39004797]Those exist!?! May I ask where?[/QUOTE] In the PoKi group. [editline]28th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ol' Pie;39004946]This thread has been derailed badly.[/QUOTE] Ehh you might be right. Yes, most stupid reasons you got banned for. Damnit, I already posted about mine.

[QUOTE=Ol' Pie;39004946]This thread has been derailed badly.[/QUOTE] what do you mean? I am really enjoying the 5 page conversation about prop killing and not how people have been banned from servers.

To be honest I usually don't care about these things, but having to scroll 2 pages down of text walls is not a very good thing

[QUOTE=Doomish;23955664]Someone on my friends list joined the server and changed their name to "Domish", pretending to be me and calling people niggers and retards. Then they banned me instead of him. :geno:[/QUOTE] What a scrub! :tinfoil:

I don't know how you guys at BYB think disabling contraptions will stop prop kill. Your servers are full of it after all, the only thing removing contraptions does is ruin the fun of having base elevators and cool safe doors.