Hunger systems only work in the purpose of deteriorating skills really. Like, if you don't eat after about 48 hours of IG time, you lose some skill points in things like strength and dexterity. Just stuff that influences you in such a way where its more of, "If I don't eat every so often, I'm gonna be a sloggish mess"
Killing players or hurting them for not eating sausage and drinking vodka daily is silly.
If anybody wants, I'd be willing to run this on an empty server that I manage for a community. I pretty much have total control over what goes on the server and who is admin. Since nobody really gives a fuck about GMod RP in the community anyways, I'd be happy to provide for people who actually sound like they'd want this to happen.
It should be noted that I tried to run a HL2RP server a couple years back, but failed because I ran a shitty generic HL2RP with shitty rules. However, this shouldn't be a problem because I have become much more experienced since then and there is the fact that you guys don't really seem to care for IC rules.
All that would be needed for this to happen is a solid list of what you guys want, someone who is willing to code this(because I can't code worth shit), people who know their shit with moderation, and of course people who are willing to play. I am 99% sure the rest can be handled without any issues. I can't give any permissions to FTP so all uploading would have to be handled by me, but I've got a shit load of free time so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.
It's not much, but that's pretty much all I've got to offer to help with this.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44274743]Hunger systems only work in the purpose of deteriorating skills really. Like, if you don't eat after about 48 hours of IG time, you lose some skill points in things like strength and dexterity. Just stuff that influences you in such a way where its more of, "If I don't eat every so often, I'm gonna be a sloggish mess"
Killing players or hurting them for not eating sausage and drinking vodka daily is silly.[/QUOTE]
And then you have CP officers watching citizens do things like jumping over a huge hole or even just running, and they spout things like "you're a malnourished citizen, you shouldn't be able to do that".
Granted, the people who do that are newbies, but still, things like a hunger system which messes up the screen in the first stage (say, X hours without in-game food), slows you down and lowers your staff at the second stage (X+Y hours without in-game food), and then starts slowly removing health (X+Y+Z hours without in-game food, with the health drop spread over a long amount of time) would not be that much of a problem. In fact, I think it would help.
Script things are not the devil, they're there to make RPing easier. The focus should always be on the writing part of the game, but that doesn't mean you can't implement a system or two to not only make things easier and smoother, but also make it so people can't exploit it. Because they will.
[QUOTE=Gatekeeper828;44275021]If anybody wants, I'd be willing to run this on an empty server that I manage for a community. I pretty much have total control over what goes on the server and who is admin. Since nobody really gives a fuck about GMod RP in the community anyways, I'd be happy to provide for people who actually sound like they'd want this to happen.
It should be noted that I tried to run a HL2RP server a couple years back, but failed because I ran a shitty generic HL2RP with shitty rules. However, this shouldn't be a problem because I have become much more experienced since then and there is the fact that you guys don't really seem to care for IC rules.
All that would be needed for this to happen is a solid list of what you guys want, someone who is willing to code this(because I can't code worth shit), people who know their shit with moderation, and of course people who are willing to play. I am 99% sure the rest can be handled without any issues. I can't give any permissions to FTP so all uploading would have to be handled by me, but I've got a shit load of free time so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.
It's not much, but that's pretty much all I've got to offer to help with this.[/QUOTE]
So is some trusted going to take leadership about this, or is this thread just about theory?
Theory.
If anything was implemented from this thread into the current trend of RP gamemodes, things would be less dramatic and teary eyed in the RP community. People would just start getting along because why the fuck not.
Also, while we are on the topic of RP gamemodes and the like... I'd like to propose that RDM is physically impossible in the current trend of RP Gamemodes.
If you give people tools to do good but these tools can also do bad in almost any rp server people misuse everything they can their hands on just to grief. I'm not saying I'm innocent of it but why not take preventative measures?
It's very hard to place "preventative measures" without also placing major restrictions on gameplay. (Just look at all of those darkrp anti-nlr and propkill systems)
I think we should take the route Joe explained in another thread (let roleplay handle the "mass murders") and only use administration to fight hackers/exploiters.
We're talking about serious roleplay here, most people will leave a server and never come back if someone abuses a physgun
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44278236]We're talking about serious roleplay here, most people will leave a server and never come back if someone abuses a physgun[/QUOTE]
Then I don't think those are the people we want on our server?
you shouldn't try to implement an economy at all, that's dumb and won't even work in theory, less so in practice. it doesn't even make sense in the lore, why would the combine give you money for you to buy shit with if they know that you can use it to buy guns? you don't use that for food, they do the rations for a reason. in terms of an actual economy, a player ran economy is very, very complicated to actually implement, and it won't work in HL2RP at all.
think of it. the combine are the ones that provide the credits why the hell would the rebels trade with that? you can't buy shit at all anyway, that's the reason why both men and women in HL2 wear the same mono-colored denim shirt and pants, and the same leather shoes. they want to break down your individuality so you become just one more worker instead of a person. allowing you to even have the choice to decide what food to eat is contrary to what the combine want for people.
hell, even if the combine allowed credits to exist, what stops them from printing thousands of credits and crashing the value of it through inflation, and thus leaving rebels without a way to purchase their weapons? hell, the free money you get through rations already pretty much generates inflation.
and then there's the proposal to having people scavenge for like weapon parts and shit. you could have that, and then playing on the server would decay to just being a collect-a-thon of weapon parts where everybody can acquire a weapon given enough time. you're missing the purpose of the weapon itself and how it relates to RP. in HL2 the only really "rebel made" weapon you find is the crossbow, and even that doesn't seem to be mass distributed. rebels mostly use either modern weapons they probably had stashed somewhere like the RPG, or use combine weaponry like the AR2 or the SMG of which they have easy access of, you can readily grab a gun by killing a combine. making people build guns out of scrap doesn't make sense because that's not what people would do in the first place.
tbh i think people should just drop credits entirely, at least from the script, as well as guns that actually do damage if you're going to mostly be using them to shoot to miss. remove all this unnecessary shit, if you don't want people to believe RP is about collecting money/guns, then remove them for fuck sakes, and lead them to actually try to do what RP really is all about, which is [B]character development.[/B]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44278471]you shouldn't try to implement an economy at all, that's dumb and won't even work in theory, less so in practice. it doesn't even make sense in the lore, why would the combine give you money for you to buy shit with if they know that you can use it to buy guns? you don't use that for food, they do the rations for a reason. in terms of an actual economy, a player ran economy is very, very complicated to actually implement, and it won't work in HL2RP at all.
think of it. the combine are the ones that provide the credits why the hell would the rebels trade with that? you can't buy shit at all anyway, that's the reason why both men and women in HL2 wear the same mono-colored denim shirt and pants, and the same leather shoes. they want to break down your individuality so you become just one more worker instead of a person. allowing you to even have the choice to decide what food to eat is contrary to what the combine want for people.[/QUOTE] The problem with this is, it's not fun or interesting in the slightest. Is it accurate? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's good. Which is another problem with HL2RP today, they try to stay accurate to the "lore" and end up forcing every citizen (see: everyone who's not an admin) to be sad, malnourished, scared little punching bags for the CPs. If you try to do something like jump over a trashcan, even OOCly, they'll scold you and even put you in jail, and that's a true fucking story.
My point is, staying accurate to the lore never, ever equals good times for anyone. The most fun I've ever had on Clockwork was in a canon where the Combine were abolished entirely and replaced with a mafia-like council who distributed all of the supplies. Having that much freedom lead to all kinds of businesses, then corporate raids, bounty hunters, cultists, bribes, all kinds of things that aren't possible if you're playing "malnourished citizen simulator". And the only fun normal HL2RPs I've been on have altered the canon to be way, way more lax toward citizens and trade restrictions, opening up more opportunities for people to actually do shit.
Please don't use the lore as an excuse, especially since HL2 barely elaborated on any of it.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44278471]hell, even if the combine allowed credits to exist, what stops them from printing thousands of credits and crashing the value of it through inflation, and thus leaving rebels without a way to purchase their weapons? hell, the free money you get through rations already pretty much generates inflation.[/QUOTE]
That's kind of one of the problems we brought up earlier.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44278471]and then there's the proposal to having people scavenge for like weapon parts and shit. you could have that, and then playing on the server would decay to just being a collect-a-thon of weapon parts where everybody can acquire a weapon given enough time. you're missing the purpose of the weapon itself and how it relates to RP. in HL2 the only really "rebel made" weapon you find is the crossbow, and even that doesn't seem to be mass distributed. rebels mostly use either modern weapons they probably had stashed somewhere like the RPG, or use combine weaponry like the AR2 or the SMG of which they have easy access of, you can readily grab a gun by killing a combine. making people build guns out of scrap doesn't make sense because that's not what people would do in the first place.[/QUOTE]
However, I really agree with you on this. Like I said in my last post, "harvesting and refining" isn't a fun concept, even if it does improve how much the item is worth... to you.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44278471]tbh i think people should just drop credits entirely, at least from the script, as well as guns that actually do damage if you're going to mostly be using them to shoot to miss. remove all this unnecessary shit, if you don't want people to believe RP is about collecting money/guns, then remove them for fuck sakes, and lead them to actually try to do what RP really is all about, which is [B]character development.[/B][/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is, to abolish all economy and trading, remove guns, remove everything and turn it into a chatroom text roleplay, then develop characters. That's the only way to achieve (your idea of) true roleplay?
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44278236]We're talking about serious roleplay here, most people will leave a server and never come back if someone abuses a physgun[/QUOTE]
There should be no such thing as abuse. Only give them lore fitting items and everything should be fine. The other players will punish people that go on rampages by arresting/killing them or put meta gamers into asylums or just exclude them from their "clique" or whatever else.
These "serious" roleplayers will either be retarded and not understand that (nobody wants those people) or will understand it.
[editline]18th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Bang]
loads of stuffs
[/QUOTE]
Why would you need money (like coins or w/e) for an economy? Just trade things.
A black market will emerge and there you have your economy. Maybe someone will even make an underground bank to create "real" money.
Also roleplay is not about "character development", it's about playing a role. Your "character developing" is just a natural that all humans do?
okay a lore fitting physgun!!!
that makes sense
maybe lore fitting prop spawning
These things are not lore fitting and would not be included?
What does that even do in "serious" roleplay? I've only seen those used by admins on hl2rp servers just to be cool shortly before they ban someone. There's no need for that stuff even being there.
Or just have a private whitelist server, that's what I'm voting for.
[QUOTE=LennyPenny;44279685]These things are not lore fitting and would not be included?
What does that even do in "serious" roleplay? I've only seen those used by admins on hl2rp servers just to be cool shortly before they ban someone. There's no need for that stuff even being there.[/QUOTE]
setting up business, decorating apartments, etc
[editline]18th March 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;44279686]Or just have a private whitelist server, that's what I'm voting for.[/QUOTE]
that's never gonna work out unless you like roleplaying with the same 10 people
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44279732]setting up business, decorating apartments, etc[/QUOTE]
You don't need prop spawing or a physgun for that.
Just buy the "props" at an appropriate vendor and implement a gmodtower like prop placement system.
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44279732]
that's never gonna work out unless you like roleplaying with the same 10 people[/QUOTE]
As opposed to the same 3 people at a time while we fight over banning a minge and have Lemonpunch/some other "corporation" DDoS us if we become a threat. There's a lot of people on facepunch who know what they're talking about and what they're doing, how to avoid drama and what admins/other players are doing wrong. Compose the server entirely of people who understand that and all of the theories in this thread are just a little more possible - let in a bunch of random strangers and it's just a normal hl2rp server with some optimistic goals.
The HL2 storyline was only fun when I was Gordon Freeman. The citizens are too boring, especially considering almost every single bloody HL2RP character is a picture perfect male07.
Once I was on a server with a resistance group where EVERY BLOODY MEMBER was male07.
[B]1. Abolish the rules system and allow mass freekill! Anarchy 4 lyfe![/B]
The end result of this is that people are constantly s2king so people don't get shot and killed themselves. in a highly dystopian and regulated society, there shouldn't be people walking around preforming massacres.
[B]2. Economies/Activities are untrue to the original canon![/B]
Canon doesn't matter, and if you're really making an assumption off of the good two and a half minutes you played inside city 17... enough said. Regardless, if you actually want people to do something other than huddle in the plaza and whisper quietly, change some shit up.
[B]Private Whitelists[/B]
I support these, actually. Players could apply to join, and the vote to accept/ban members and promote/demote staff could be done by the already existing community. It's just about as community-representative as it gets, and if a staff member continues to fuck up, they're simply gotten rid of.
Roleplay quality could be greatly increased and the chances of becoming a LemonPunch would be far smaller.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;44279086]The problem with this is, it's not fun or interesting in the slightest. Is it accurate? Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's good. Which is another problem with HL2RP today, they try to stay accurate to the "lore" and end up forcing every citizen (see: everyone who's not an admin) to be sad, malnourished, scared little punching bags for the CPs. If you try to do something like jump over a trashcan, even OOCly, they'll scold you and even put you in jail, and that's a true fucking story.
My point is, staying accurate to the lore never, ever equals good times for anyone. The most fun I've ever had on Clockwork was in a canon where the Combine were abolished entirely and replaced with a mafia-like council who distributed all of the supplies. Having that much freedom lead to all kinds of businesses, then corporate raids, bounty hunters, cultists, bribes, all kinds of things that aren't possible if you're playing "malnourished citizen simulator". And the only fun normal HL2RPs I've been on have altered the canon to be way, way more lax toward citizens and trade restrictions, opening up more opportunities for people to actually do shit.
Please don't use the lore as an excuse, especially since HL2 barely elaborated on any of it. [/QUOTE]
then, how about, you know, not playing HL2RP then?
I mean the SETTING of HL2 is that all citizens are oppressed and forced to abandon all sense of individuality, a la 1984. that's the setting, that's how things should be, everyone who isn't sad and oppressed is otherwise angry and oppressed, or being the oppressor itself. if you're going to change that core concept then you're better off making your own setting, your own lore because [I]that's what people are doing anyway.[/I]
the setting itself is restrictive, if you don't want the restriction that the Half Life 2 universe is set on then [I]make a new setting[/I]. and I've been telling people that for years and they just don't fucking listen. the most fun part about HL2RP is doing shit that is not in the HL2 universe, so, again, [I]why bother with attempting to link things to the HL2 universe[/I]
there's a really, really strange dichotomy in HL2RP players where they won't play anything that isn't HL2RP because it's "shit" compared to every other setting, but then the HL2RP they're playing, and the parts they like the most aren't even in the HL2 universe at all. why the fuck are we bothering with HL2RP then?
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;44279086]So what you're saying is, to abolish all economy and trading, remove guns, remove everything and turn it into a chatroom text roleplay, then develop characters. That's the only way to achieve (your idea of) true roleplay?[/QUOTE]
again, no.
but if you're going to have credits, as in, a display, in the script, that tells you how much credits you have, and you can buy guns through them, and you have a menu that allows you to buy shit for credits, then perhaps it's better to either go all the way and make an actual economy and an actual meta for that economy or don't bother attempting to simulate the economy through the script at all and just make it something that is just roleplayed, like in basically every other fucking setting. you don't want all these superfluous items like food or drinks or whatever? good, [I]take them off the script[/I], why is it there? why do you give people access to them if you want them then to think that they're not really there for the RP?
it's the same with guns. why the fuck do they have guns if you don't want them to kill people with it. you either make it so the guns don't kill people and are instead fluff for people to roleplay with, or you don't give them guns in the first place. the rules are fucking stupid and they are there to cover flaws in the script. NLR shouldn't be there, RDM shouldn't be there, S2M shouldn't be there, dice rolls shouldn't be there. it's all half assed excuses to cover for shit that is lacking yet nobody really wants to tackle, any good designer would design the game so that this shit doesn't happen, instead of depending on players to consciously avoid doing certain things. HL2RP scripts are filled with this superfluous shit that detracts from the experience instead of adding to it (like these fucking stats in Clockwork, why is that even there if you can't do anything with them?), what I propose is getting rid of that shit, and start to add new things, new ideas, shit that actually helps to solve problems.
but shit it turns out there's two problems with that premise, first, people don't want to admit certain stuff is a problem, second, everyone is too afraid to fail. and that's the wrong attitude to have if you're developing anything. from a game design point of view, it's an attitude that is doomed to fail anyway.
also, server with a whitelist? what the fuck? "oh hey lets make serious RP more elitist than what it already is".
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44281248]then, how about, you know, not playing HL2RP then?
I mean the SETTING of HL2 is that all citizens are oppressed and forced to abandon all sense of individuality, a la 1984. that's the setting, that's how things should be, everyone who isn't sad and oppressed is otherwise angry and oppressed, or being the oppressor itself. if you're going to change that core concept then you're better off making your own setting, your own lore because [I]that's what people are doing anyway.[/I]
the setting itself is restrictive, if you don't want the restriction that the Half Life 2 universe is set on then [I]make a new setting[/I]. and I've been telling people that for years and they just don't fucking listen. the most fun part about HL2RP is doing shit that is not in the HL2 universe, so, again, [I]why bother with attempting to link things to the HL2 universe[/I][/QUOTE]
[i]That is exactly what I'm saying.[/i] The most fun I had was in a canon that could've removed all relation to HL2 and nothing important would have changed. The base idea of oppression and sadness is a bad one. What I was saying in my earlier post in that these other canons didn't work for me, was referring to the differences between roleplay based on the themes and ideas from HL2RP and just a ripoff of some other game, which doesn't lead to interesting characters or scenarios.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44281248]there's a really, really strange dichotomy in HL2RP players where they won't play anything that isn't HL2RP because it's "shit" compared to every other setting, but then the HL2RP they're playing, and the parts they like the most aren't even in the HL2 universe at all. why the fuck are we bothering with HL2RP then?[/QUOTE]
You still have a point so far. We both agree that vanilla HL2RP has inherent flaws that promote IC and OOC elitism, and that won't work with the things we're all describing here. I'd put my vote to an aftermath or alternative canon.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44281248]but if you're going to have credits, as in, a display, in the script, that tells you how much credits you have, and you can buy guns through them, and you have a menu that allows you to buy shit for credits, then perhaps it's better to either go all the way and make an actual economy and an actual meta for that economy or don't bother attempting to simulate the economy through the script at all and just make it something that is just roleplayed, like in basically every other fucking setting. you don't want all these superfluous items like food or drinks or whatever? good, [I]take them off the script[/I], why is it there? why do you give people access to them if you want them then to think that they're not really there for the RP?[/QUOTE]
Again, you have a good point. I'm not fighting for needless items like food and drinks to try and force the economy to move, but there needs to be something. Roleplayed economy and a meta, actual economic system both have their benefits, but I don't support either one above the other.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44281248]it's the same with guns. why the fuck do they have guns if you don't want them to kill people with it. you either make it so the guns don't kill people and are instead fluff for people to roleplay with, or you don't give them guns in the first place. the rules are fucking stupid and they are there to cover flaws in the script. NLR shouldn't be there, RDM shouldn't be there, S2M shouldn't be there, dice rolls shouldn't be there. it's all half assed excuses to cover for shit that is lacking yet nobody really wants to tackle, any good designer would design the game so that this shit doesn't happen, instead of depending on players to consciously avoid doing certain things. HL2RP scripts are filled with this superfluous shit that detracts from the experience instead of adding to it (like these fucking stats in Clockwork, why is that even there if you can't do anything with them?), what I propose is getting rid of that shit, and start to add new things, new ideas, shit that actually helps to solve problems.[/QUOTE]
I'm agreeing with you a lot more than I thought I would. Having guns just be props might actually cancel out a lot of drama, refunds and complaining. It's a really good solution.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44281248]but shit it turns out there's two problems with that premise, first, people don't want to admit certain stuff is a problem, second, everyone is too afraid to fail. and that's the wrong attitude to have if you're developing anything. from a game design point of view, it's an attitude that is doomed to fail anyway.[/QUOTE]
Well, that's really the point of this whole thread, to weed out all of the problems we've seen.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;44281248]also, server with a whitelist? what the fuck? "oh hey lets make serious RP more elitist than what it already is".[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying a "friends of friends & donors only" whitelist, it's just there to try and weed out people who drift between RP servers just to stir shit up and minge/abuse whatever freedom they're given, or people who try and force the HL2RP mindset onto other people. A lot of the ideas in this thread rely on HUGE trust in the players, and I can guarantee it'll fall apart if any douche or troll can join and is given freedom to do almost anything without admins interfering.
I'd be all for a whitelist, keeps the shitheads and trolls out and the people we know that are going to get along together in
Economics and crafting can still be applied to HL2RP because the lore still has it so people are still working and such. For example: You can only get supplies to farm if you are working with a factory, and you can do "resistance activity" to sneak out vegetable or fruit seeds to the blackmarket or for yourself to grow food. As for anyone saying, "You can't simply build guns from scrap metal and ores!" yeah you can. You could have systems in which you salvage metal from "scrap pits" that are randomly generated every so often around the map, which could be things like cars and such.
Just think outside the box.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44282429]Economics and crafting can still be applied to HL2RP because the lore still has it so people are still working and such. For example: You can only get supplies to farm if you are working with a factory, and you can do "resistance activity" to sneak out vegetable or fruit seeds to the blackmarket or for yourself to grow food. As for anyone saying, "You can't simply build guns from scrap metal and ores!" yeah you can. You could have systems in which you salvage metal from "scrap pits" that are randomly generated every so often around the map, which could be things like cars and such.
Just think outside the box.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like everyone would just run around the map hoarding scrap metal instead of anything else, like it's an RPG. Like Big Bang said, it turns into a "collect-a-thon". Sure, it makes guns more rare and therefor more valuable, but there are a lot of problems with it.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;44282532]It sounds like everyone would just run around the map hoarding scrap metal instead of anything else, like it's an RPG. Like Big Bang said, it turns into a "collect-a-thon". Sure, it makes guns more rare and therefor more valuable, but there are a lot of problems with it.[/QUOTE]
That's true, but if things are properly done by the Combine government, you would be able to counter people from going to places like the Outlands, which is where they would have to harvest materials and such. Another method would be to make it so harvesting minerals and ores requires you to step into Antlion territory, this would drastically decrease the amount of people simply blitzing the resources to get things.
The only things which would for the most part be "easily" accessible in a server with a decent government in control would be things like wood and food. All of which really have no value in crafting weapons, and for the most part would be used for making passive items likes furnitures, books, and the like. The book thing reminds me by the way, servers really need to create a diary/newspaper/book system that allows players to craft things and such. Even in HL2 we still had things like newspapers, and I'd imagine a Combine controlled newspaper industry would be a great method to create immersion via spread of propaganda.
Sounds like most of you (aside from Joe who wants something extremely complicated) want a model based on ww2 Nazi occupied France.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;44283330]Sounds like most of you (aside from Joe who wants something extremely complicated) want a model based on ww2 Nazi occupied France.[/QUOTE]
Which is P much what we know the Combine occupation is like from lore.
[QUOTE=doomkiwi;44283330]Sounds like most of you (aside from Joe who wants something extremely complicated) want a model based on ww2 Nazi occupied France.[/QUOTE]
Actually, yeah, that's not that inaccurate. If given the opportunity, though, I would chose having a canon without combine or oppressed citizens. Maybe some similar elements like brainwashing and espionage, but just making people crap their pants by looking at them/slowly removing all individualism and free will is pretty dumb.
[editline]18th March 2014[/editline]
Removing the concept of rebels vs combine, and citizens in the background, in HL2RP removes all of the stigma and stereotypes that people use when they play as those characters, the ones that lead to all of the problems we've talked about. Metagaming, powergaming, people associate all of the crap wrong with HL2RP with the character they're playing, especially if we make it a public server. Having something original with no typecasting behind it would be way better in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Masterofstars;44283451]Which is P much what we know the Combine occupation is like from lore.[/QUOTE]
Not so much. Combine rule seems mote strict and gives virtually no freedoms or even entertainment, more like Soviet Russia.
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