Opinions =/= Facts
This whole thread is complete now get off the subject because it is useless to fight over an opinion. If you don't like E2 leave the server, if you do like E2 join a server with it. Problem solved, now stop fighting over some stupid shit. You aren't forced to learn it.
I love E2. I agree it makes minging easier, but it by no means ruins the creativity of Gmod as a whole. I code at an advanced level in E2, but that doesn't mean I only use it. A lot of the time I will use E2 for a "serious" project or something that cannot be done in another way, and I will use physics props and creative methods to have fun, experiment, create the truly epic things. There are good times to be had feeling good because you cracked some code you have been trying to write for an hour, but mostly even better times to be had putting a hell of a lot of pieces together to create something mechanical and functional.
I don't think E2 ruined Gmod, it is the user's choice what they use and how they use it, but fundamentally it is only one piece of Gmod as a whole, and there is still the incredible creative and mental edge to the community that Gmod demands.
How in any way has it ruined GMod? If someones building E2 stuff while your build physics stuff. Does that stop you from building or something? No, You can still build in physics. Nobody is forcing you to use E2...
So... customization ruined gmod?
Doing what we want ruined gmod?
Besides the normal contraptions sucked. You had to spend like 3 hours just to make a car that didn't bounce up and down like a mother f*****
[QUOTE=Carocrazy;23536853]So... customization ruined gmod?
Doing what we want ruined gmod?
Besides the normal contraptions sucked. You had to spend like 3 hours just to make a car that didn't bounce up and down like a mother f*****[/QUOTE]
This is the internet. You are aloud to say "fuck"
install exsto, block e2 prop job done now stop complaining because some of us like the experience of prgramming in the game to achieve stuff that the base physics cannot its also easier to regulate certain calculations for example my lift, I use wire hydrolics and then an e2 that then performs the constant calculation of movement for the lift and also designates the start and stop points for the lift so it cant accidentally break other objects around it.
I think its down to how you use it, fair enough it people use it over other more base methods then its abuse but if your doing it to improve or control the reactions then surely its just an improvement.
[QUOTE=Sestze;23533574]you're a woman that never explained to me why the black box nature of gmod affects you in any meaningful way.
you're against something that reduces lag and opens creative doors for everyone who plays this game. you're against a tool that can teach you mathematics and physics. you're against [i]progress[/i].
And you're going to dodge the question again and disappear again until you raise your ugly head in another thread. [i]Justify yourself, please.[/i][/QUOTE]
Why don't you stop raising your ugly head in all these threads just to troll those who have their own opinions and want to express them. This thread is about fucking opinions. Garry's mod is a [I]physics sandbox[/I]. It says it on the site. All I've seen in E2 (and I've seen a lot) is 5% cool stuff, 95% stuff that really shouldn't be on a physics sandbox. Stuff like 3D raindrops that only express how stupid the creator of it must be if he feels proud about a piece of shit which defeats the purpose of Garry's Mod.
That good enough for you?
[editline]02:25PM[/editline]
Read the fucking first post. We ARE being forced to use it because E1 is being ruled out and apparently gates according to you guys is crap. I've only found 2 servers that don't use wire, and they are fun. I have fun actually building stuff rather than writing a bit of code just for a few minutes of satisfaction at a time. I have a life. I don't want to spend hours on hours coding and coding when I play garry's mod to have fun with contraptions that use physics in some sort of way. I'll admit it, wiremod is OK. But Expression 2 just pushes the so called "creative potential" over the edge into oblivion.
Well as you say opinion then mine is as valid of yours the game would die without new life added it doesnt push it into obvlivion just because you the point of the game is creativity not just oooo looke at the physics its a sandbox that includes physics or are you gonna say that space build, flood and all the rest defeat the point of garrys mod because they use extra code to revolutionize gmod for eveyone, stop walking backwards and accept it, if you cant do that then buy your own server and run it with no addons I'm sure you will have hours of fun by yourself chuck stones in the air and catching them with your face as the physics engine bringas them back to earth.
Myself I see gmod as a construction game nothing more and nothing less it allows me to put my ideas into action and provides the tools to achieve those goals if that uses e2 or not.
[QUOTE=IDemon;23539219]Well as you say opinion then mine is as valid of yours the game would die without new life added it doesnt push it into obvlivion just because you the point of the game is creativity not just oooo looke at the physics its a sandbox that includes physics [B]Well, that's the point of it[/B] or are you gonna say that space build, flood and all the rest defeat the point of garrys mod because they use extra code to revolutionize gmod for eveyone [B]Garry wanted people to make extra game modes to extend it. E2 isn't extending it, it's just overcomplicating what would be a simple game[/B], stop walking backwards and accept it, if you cant do that then buy your own server and run it with no addons I'm sure you will have hours of fun by yourself [B]Nope. The vanilla server I regular is almost always full of people.[/B] chuck stones in the air and catching them with your face as the physics engine bringas them back to earth.
Myself I see gmod as a construction game nothing more and nothing less it allows me to put my ideas into action and provides the tools to achieve those goals if that uses e2 or not.[/QUOTE]
[editline]02:46PM[/editline]
I've seen nice things with £2, but really wiremod would have been better if they just stuck with gates and expression 1. I've learned to accept wiremod but not Expression 2. When I say physics sandbox, I don't meant "ooh look at the physics" but I mean actually making contraptions. Using wire with props can make things better, but Expression 2 removes all the props and just sticks with crap like holograms, and that doesn't work in a game designed for you to spawn things from HL2 and play around with them.
In my opinion, E2 only ruing Gmod when immature children start exploiting me (balls of steel, fairy, stalkers, etc.). On the other hand, phx really impacted creativity. Gmod used to be "make a X out of hl2 props" now it's "make a X out of props made specially for construction". Not saying that PHX is bad, it's very useful, but I think it would be more interesting to see a plane made of HL2 props than one made of props made for the purpose.
[QUOTE=wakkydude;23539277][editline]02:46PM[/editline]
I've seen nice things with £2, but really wiremod would have been better if they just stuck with gates and expression 1. I've learned to accept wiremod but not Expression 2. When I say physics sandbox, I don't meant "ooh look at the physics" but I mean actually making contraptions. Using wire with props can make things better, but Expression 2 removes all the props and just sticks with crap like holograms, and that doesn't work in a game designed for you to spawn things from HL2 and play around with them.[/QUOTE]
youre completely right. lets also remove parenting because it also removes the physics of an object.
you have to be extremely deluted and self-rightous to believe gmod has any purpose other then to do what you want to entertain yourself.
E2 lets people do shit you couldnt ever do with gmod otherwise. get over yourself child.
also, fuck off with you generalizing of everyone who uses e2. i use e2 in conjunction with props and shit.
[editline]10:04AM[/editline]
if anything ruined gmod its that people can share dupes. but i digress, since i just ban annoying people anyway.
I'm still pissed about the shitty E2 syntax.
That said, E2 is a tool. How can having the ability to use a tool "ruin" a game based around using tools creatively?
[QUOTE=MotherMinge;23539605]I'm still pissed about the shitty E2 syntax.
That said, E2 is a tool. How can having the ability to use a tool "ruin" a game based around using tools creatively?[/QUOTE]
what is shitty about its syntax..?
[QUOTE=wakkydude;23539277][editline]02:46PM[/editline]
I've seen nice things with £2, but really wiremod would have been better if they just stuck with gates and expression 1. I've learned to accept wiremod but not Expression 2. When I say physics sandbox, I don't meant "ooh look at the physics" but I mean actually making contraptions. Using wire with props can make things better, but Expression 2 removes all the props and just sticks with crap like holograms, and that doesn't work in a game designed for you to spawn things from HL2 and play around with them.[/QUOTE]
Admittedly I have no right to comment on anything e1 that existed before I joined gmod and thus I never got to use it in the first place so I dont know the difference between the 2, also I havent looked at holograms yet either I only use e2 as a regulator chip for my processes to stop it lagging the server up or the prop from going beyond the limitations i set and its easier to do it in e2 because rather than spawning 6 different math chips and number chips etc I can just program it all into the e2 spawn that and then only one chip so quicker adv dup saving and spawning and easier to see the code as it would be excuted rather than desperatly trying to figure out which chip is connected to the other chip.
[QUOTE=Kwout;23539495]In my opinion, E2 only ruing Gmod when immature children start exploiting me (balls of steel, fairy, stalkers, etc.). On the other hand, phx really impacted creativity. Gmod used to be "make a X out of hl2 props" now it's "make a X out of props made specially for construction". Not saying that PHX is bad, it's very useful, but I think it would be more interesting to see a plane made of HL2 props than one made of props made for the purpose.[/QUOTE]
Surely thought they did this to simplfy and cut construction times not all of us have all day to work on one thing and search props to find the right ones its just better to have props that have specific properties and shapes as for your example areodynamics are exteremly hard to achieve using hl items as they are all so weird and wonderful, but then in your defense making one out of hl items would be so much more impressive
[QUOTE=IDemon;23539764]Admittedly I have no right to comment on anything e1 that existed before I joined gmod and thus I never got to use it in the first place so I dont know the difference between the 2, also I havent looked at holograms yet either I only use e2 as a regulator chip for my processes to stop it lagging the server up or the prop from going beyond the limitations i set and its easier to do it in e2 because rather than spawning 6 different math chips and number chips etc I can just program it all into the e2 spawn that and then only one chip so quicker adv dup saving and spawning and easier to see the code as it would be excuted rather than desperatly trying to figure out which chip is connected to the other chip.
Surely thought they did this to simplfy and cut construction times not all of us have all day to work on one thing and search props to find the right ones its just better to have props that have specific properties and shapes as for your example areodynamics are exteremly hard to achieve using hl items as they are all so weird and wonderful, but then in your defense making one out of hl items would be so much more impressive[/QUOTE]
gmod doesnt simulate aerodynamics.
[QUOTE=wakkydude;23539277][editline]02:46PM[/editline]
I've seen nice things with £2, but really wiremod would have been better if they just stuck with gates and expression 1. I've learned to accept wiremod but not Expression 2. When I say physics sandbox, I don't meant "ooh look at the physics" but I mean actually making contraptions. Using wire with props can make things better, but Expression 2 removes all the props and just sticks with crap like holograms, and that doesn't work in a game designed for you to spawn things from HL2 and play around with them.[/QUOTE]
[quote="sestze"]you're against something that reduces lag and opens creative doors for everyone who plays this game. you're against a tool that can teach you mathematics and physics. you're against progress.[/quote]
[QUOTE=wakkydude;23539042]Why don't you stop raising your ugly head in all these threads just to troll those who have their own opinions and want to express them. This thread is about fucking opinions. Garry's mod is a [I]physics sandbox[/I]. It says it on the site. All I've seen in E2 (and I've seen a lot) is 5% cool stuff, 95% stuff that really shouldn't be on a physics sandbox. Stuff like 3D raindrops that only express how stupid the creator of it must be if he feels proud about a piece of shit which defeats the purpose of Garry's Mod.
That good enough for you?
[editline]02:25PM[/editline]
Read the fucking first post. We ARE being forced to use it because E1 is being ruled out and apparently gates according to you guys is crap. I've only found 2 servers that don't use wire, and they are fun. I have fun actually building stuff rather than writing a bit of code just for a few minutes of satisfaction at a time. I have a life. I don't want to spend hours on hours coding and coding when I play garry's mod to have fun with contraptions that use physics in some sort of way. I'll admit it, wiremod is OK. But Expression 2 just pushes the so called "creative potential" over the edge into oblivion.[/QUOTE]
"garry's mod is a physics sandbox and should always be played in this manner"
No, GMod is probably marketed as a physics sandbox because the first thing you'll probably do is muck around with props and constraints, but it's really there for you to do what you want. It rather annoys me when you try and tell people what they should and shouldn't be doing in a sandbox.
"we're being forced to use E2 because people don't like it when we use the other parts of wire"
I don't know about you but I wouldn't say people telling you what to do or frowning on you is the same as forcing you. Don't listen to them, tell them to fuck off, if they punish you find another server with less fascist people.
"i actually build stuff, i don't want to do this coding stuff"
Good for you, don't code. Don't ever code anything in E2 at all if you don't want. But you seem to have this closed-minded contempt for people who like making things with E2. Your little comment "i have a life" so quietly implies that people who like E2 coding stay in all day typing in the text editor. You don't at any point recognise that, perhaps, people enjoy this coding. Leave them alone.
"E2 gives you too much creative power"
I don't hear you complaining about the vastly more powerful Lua
Basically my point is, you're wrong, because you're telling people what to do in a game where you do what you want.
[QUOTE=MegaJohnny;23540994]"garry's mod is a physics sandbox and should always be played in this manner"
No, GMod is probably marketed as a physics sandbox because the first thing you'll probably do is muck around with props and constraints, but it's really there for you to do what you want. It rather annoys me when you try and tell people what they should and shouldn't be doing in a sandbox.
"we're being forced to use E2 because people don't like it when we use the other parts of wire"
I don't know about you but I wouldn't say people telling you what to do or frowning on you is the same as forcing you. Don't listen to them, tell them to fuck off, if they punish you find another server with less fascist people.
"i actually build stuff, i don't want to do this coding stuff"
Good for you, don't code. Don't ever code anything in E2 at all if you don't want. But you seem to have this closed-minded contempt for people who like making things with E2. Your little comment "i have a life" so quietly implies that people who like E2 coding stay in all day typing in the text editor. You don't at any point recognise that, perhaps, people enjoy this coding. Leave them alone.
"E2 gives you too much creative power"
I don't hear you complaining about the vastly more powerful Lua
Basically my point is, you're wrong, because you're telling people what to do in a game where you do what you want.[/QUOTE]
If you stay here long enough, you'll loose the will to respond to them properly. My last post was just a double quote. I'd leave now before it's too late.
[quote]you're against something that I like and therefore I can troll you about it. you're against a tool that can teach you mathematics. you're against a fucking mod.[/quote]
Fixed. Fucking troll.
[editline]05:11PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sestze;23533574]you're a woman that never explained to me why the black box nature of gmod affects you in any meaningful way.
you're against something that reduces lag and opens creative doors for everyone who plays this game. you're against a tool that can teach you mathematics and physics. you're against [i]progress[/i].
And you're going to dodge the question again and disappear again until you raise your ugly head in another thread. [i]Justify yourself, please.[/i][/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY[/media]
[editline]05:13PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=MegaJohnny;23540994]"garry's mod is a physics sandbox and should always be played in this manner"
No, GMod is probably marketed as a physics sandbox because the first thing you'll probably do is muck around with props and constraints, but it's really there for you to do what you want. It rather annoys me when you try and tell people what they should and shouldn't be doing in a sandbox.
"we're being forced to use E2 because people don't like it when we use the other parts of wire"
I don't know about you but I wouldn't say people telling you what to do or frowning on you is the same as forcing you. Don't listen to them, tell them to fuck off, if they punish you find another server with less fascist people.
"i actually build stuff, i don't want to do this coding stuff"
Good for you, don't code. Don't ever code anything in E2 at all if you don't want. But you seem to have this closed-minded contempt for people who like making things with E2. Your little comment "i have a life" so quietly implies that people who like E2 coding stay in all day typing in the text editor. You don't at any point recognise that, perhaps, people enjoy this coding. Leave them alone.
"E2 gives you too much creative power"
I don't hear you complaining about the vastly more powerful Lua
Basically my point is, you're wrong, because you're telling people what to do in a game where you do what you want.[/QUOTE]
At least you could tell me what you think is wrong about my argument without being a fucktard in the process.
Gates aren't being ruled out.
[QUOTE=whosdr;23541582]Gates aren't being ruled out.[/QUOTE]
Expression 1 is. Also, E2 has taken over gates anyway.
I don't know how to use E2. :saddowns:
I doubt name-calling is going to get us anywhere, I've laid out all the points you made and formed a response, albeit one that was probably poorly worded in places. You're pretty much wasing your time if your posts are ending up as "go away troll", "wrong", and "you're dumb".
[QUOTE=MegaJohnny;23542006]I doubt name-calling is going to get us anywhere, I've laid out all the points you made and formed a response, albeit one that was probably poorly worded in places. You're pretty much wasing your time if your posts are ending up as "go away troll", "wrong", and "you're dumb".[/QUOTE]
Uh... who are you talking to?..
[QUOTE=iggy650;23542044]Uh... who are you talking to?..[/QUOTE]
wakkydude
[QUOTE=wakkydude;23539042]Why don't you stop raising your ugly head in all these threads just to troll those who have their own opinions and want to express them. This thread is about fucking opinions. Garry's mod is a [I]physics sandbox[/I]. It says it on the site. All I've seen in E2 (and I've seen a lot) is 5% cool stuff, 95% stuff that really shouldn't be on a physics sandbox. Stuff like 3D raindrops that only express how stupid the creator of it must be if he feels proud about a piece of shit which defeats the purpose of Garry's Mod.
That good enough for you?[/QUOTE]
You brought your opinions to a public forum so I'm asking you to justify why you have them. Having an opinion doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a thought provoking discussion about the subject matter.
For instance, I see you are disillusioned with E2 despite E2 being able to do all that E1 could do. Why don't you recode your shit from E1 in E2? It's a less laggy framework that allows you to access faster update rates and newer functions! Hell, the scripting language is suprisingly similar to C++ and other coding languages, so it's fairly grokkable for anyone who has picked up a bit of coding.
[QUOTE=wakkydude;23539042]
Read the fucking first post. We ARE being forced to use it because E1 is being ruled out and apparently gates according to you guys is crap. I've only found 2 servers that don't use wire, and they are fun. I have fun actually building stuff rather than writing a bit of code just for a few minutes of satisfaction at a time. I have a life. I don't want to spend hours on hours coding and coding when I play garry's mod to have fun with contraptions that use physics in some sort of way. I'll admit it, wiremod is OK. But Expression 2 just pushes the so called "creative potential" over the edge into oblivion.[/QUOTE]
I still don't get it. If you do stuff in E2, it doesn't require you to use any of the built-in black box functions such as applyforce, holograms, rangers, sound emitters, trails and NPC controls. You can make shit like you did back in E1 with E2, the additional functions are lurking there for when you care to use them, right?
It's a game based around using creative thinking to approach challenges that you yourself impose. If you like the idea of limiting yourself by ignoring functions in E2, that's fine. Claiming that what other people do with E2 is ruining your experiences in GMOD is flat-out hilarious.
I will take an aside to express something that you're not quite getting.
The built-in hologram functions aren't necessarily limited to just building hats or making contraption bodies. You can use them as placeholders for angles and the like for other objects (so-called "hologram slaves"). You can use holograms to track positions or act as fake physics objects. There's a few more applications that require a bit more thought than slapping a few thrusters to an I-beam and calling it a day. Construction with holograms can be just as challenging as construction with regular props.
Applyforce is not a magical force that makes objects do what you want them to. It works the same way as a vector thruster does - the two operate on the same principles. Using applyforce to stabilize something is a far less laggy method of stabilizing it with vector thrusters. It takes effort to figure out methods to appropriately use applyforce to accomplish building goals, and the benefits are there. Streamlining construction and removing the tedious portions of construction which you so value (slapping thrusters on random portions of contraptions).
I've talked to you and other people like you long enough to lose all desire to talk to you on your own level. Your arguments use the dogwhistle phrases of "it stifles creativity" or the more mindboggling thing of "it gives you too much power and too many options". If you can't build on the level of other people you shouldn't snipe at them from the sidelines and hold back the progress of other people because of your own pigheaded ignorance.
[i]That[/i] is why I don't like your opinions, because they spread to other people who get a gigantic chip on their shoulder because they're being [i]obstructionist assholes[/i]. Give me a good fucking reason why anything people do with E2 matters with respect to how you build. Please.
E2 is fine as long as people still build via other ways, and playing on several servers today, people still do.
I'm still curious why it matters who builds with what.
I think you misunderstood E2, I mean half the people on the thread agree that it opens other doors for people on Gmod, and i agree, but E2 also helps you in way you probably don't know like, the coding for example.
People say its like C# which I suppose is good If you want to learn how to code, and another thing is that I don't think its bad because it makes me want to make new stuff I never imagined could be possible before, or atleast difficult to do, Don't get me wrong I love creating stuff in gmod, I love making contraptions and ships that now can be better with the use of E2. Its a great addon, and I think it makes gmod mod a bit more managable in the sense that you have alot more control on how you want stuff to work, I mean you can make anything you want and it will be EXACTLY they way you imagined it would be, but you need to work on learning E2 ofcourse if you want to unlock the full potential of contraptions.
[QUOTE=Sestze;23553995]You brought your opinions to a public forum so I'm asking you to justify why you have them. Having an opinion doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a thought provoking discussion about the subject matter.
For instance, I see you are disillusioned with E2 despite E2 being able to do all that E1 could do. Why don't you recode your shit from E1 in E2? It's a less laggy framework that allows you to access faster update rates and newer functions! Hell, the scripting language is suprisingly similar to C++ and other coding languages, so it's fairly grokkable for anyone who has picked up a bit of coding.
I still don't get it. If you do stuff in E2, it doesn't require you to use any of the built-in black box functions such as applyforce, holograms, rangers, sound emitters, trails and NPC controls. You can make shit like you did back in E1 with E2, the additional functions are lurking there for when you care to use them, right?
It's a game based around using creative thinking to approach challenges that you yourself impose. If you like the idea of limiting yourself by ignoring functions in E2, that's fine. Claiming that what other people do with E2 is ruining your experiences in GMOD is flat-out hilarious.
I will take an aside to express something that you're not quite getting.
The built-in hologram functions aren't necessarily limited to just building hats or making contraption bodies. You can use them as placeholders for angles and the like for other objects (so-called "hologram slaves"). You can use holograms to track positions or act as fake physics objects. There's a few more applications that require a bit more thought than slapping a few thrusters to an I-beam and calling it a day. Construction with holograms can be just as challenging as construction with regular props.
Applyforce is not a magical force that makes objects do what you want them to. It works the same way as a vector thruster does - the two operate on the same principles. Using applyforce to stabilize something is a far less laggy method of stabilizing it with vector thrusters. It takes effort to figure out methods to appropriately use applyforce to accomplish building goals, and the benefits are there. Streamlining construction and removing the tedious portions of construction which you so value (slapping thrusters on random portions of contraptions).
I've talked to you and other people like you long enough to lose all desire to talk to you on your own level. Your arguments use the dogwhistle phrases of "it stifles creativity" or the more mindboggling thing of "it gives you too much power and too many options". If you can't build on the level of other people you shouldn't snipe at them from the sidelines and hold back the progress of other people because of your own pigheaded ignorance.
[i]That[/i] is why I don't like your opinions, because they spread to other people who get a gigantic chip on their shoulder because they're being [i]obstructionist assholes[/i]. Give me a good fucking reason why anything people do with E2 matters with respect to how you build. Please.[/QUOTE]
I'd love to accept all of that, but you talk to me like I fully understand how everything in wiremod works. All I can do is pod controllers. :(
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