Hate CoderHire? Hate ScriptFodder even more? Great! Introducing Steam Workshop's Paid Creations! - Garry's Mod

[QUOTE=mobrockers;47604704]All the butthurt people on here and reddit scared they'll lose their free mods they feel so entitled to having. Lol.[/QUOTE] No-ones saying they're entitled to all mods for free (but obviously it benefits most players if they are). What people are saying is that if this is going to be done it needs to be very heavily moderated which is something Valve aren't very good at anyway. See this for example: [url]http://imgur.com/gallery/qFlFa[/url] If you purchase a mod and then there is an update to the game or to a prerequesite mod, which then subsequently breaks the mod you paid for [come on this happens nearly every single update], the author is under no obligation whatsoever to fix it. And you can't get your money back at all unless it's within 24 hours. Can you imagine that on the scale of GMod? Poor Robotboy will have no time to do anything other than deal with crappy Workshop addons ripping people off (in fact what would probably happen is the sheer volume of reports would be too much for even a small team to handle and genuine reports would just be ignored). Also not specifically directed at Steam but at ZeniMax, but the division of the funds is also pretty harsh on the modders (only 25%). Steam/the developer already got a pretty nice cut when they sold the game (Skyrim wasn't exactly cheap to start with). [editline]26th April 2015[/editline] Also the sheer amount of cross-dependency on other peoples work with GMod, ranging from using other peoples models to snippets of other peoples code. The GMod development community is hardly professional with licensing their stuff.

[QUOTE=Drakehawke;47605265]What people are saying is that if this is going to be done it needs to be very heavily moderated which is something Valve aren't very good at anyway. See this for example: [url]http://imgur.com/gallery/qFlFa[/url][/QUOTE] Community members calling out mod authors on poor quality content is a form of moderation and is the kind of moderation Valve were hoping for I think. There's no way in hell Valve could moderate the entire workshop to a high standard. [QUOTE=Drakehawke;47605265]If you purchase a mod and then there is an update to the game or to a prerequesite mod, which then subsequently breaks the mod you paid for [come on this happens nearly every single update], the author is under no obligation whatsoever to fix it. And you can't get your money back at all unless it's within 24 hours.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if this 24-hours-and-you're-fucked implementation Valve is going for is even legal in the EU. There really should be an option to issue refunds to specific customers. [url]http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm[/url] [quote] Whether you bought the goods in a shop or online, under EU rules you always have the right to a minimum two-year guarantee period at no cost. [...] If an item you bought anywhere in the EU turns out to be faulty or does not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace it free of charge or give you a full refund or reduction in price.[/quote] EU consumer protection regulations make me glad I don't live in the US really.

[QUOTE=!cake;47605370]Community members calling out mod authors on poor quality content is a form of moderation and is the kind of moderation Valve were hoping for I think. There's no way in hell Valve could moderate the entire workshop to a high standard. I'm not sure if this 24-hours-and-you're-fucked implementation Valve is going for is even legal in the EU. There really should be an option to issue refunds to specific customers. [url]http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/shopping/shopping-abroad/guarantees/index_en.htm[/url] EU consumer protection regulations make me glad I don't live in the US really.[/QUOTE] Valves attitude to the EU regulations with games is that as soon as you download/install that dictates Valve "beginning their performance of obligations". [quote]IF YOU ARE AN EU SUBSCRIBER, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO WITHDRAW FROM A PURCHASE TRANSACTION FOR DIGITAL CONTENT WITHOUT CHARGE AND WITHOUT GIVING ANY REASON FOR A DURATION OF FOURTEEN DAYS OR UNTIL VALVE’S PERFORMANCE OF ITS OBLIGATIONS HAS BEGUN WITH YOUR PRIOR EXPRESS CONSENT AND YOUR ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT YOU THEREBY LOSE YOUR RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL, WHICHEVER HAPPENS SOONER. THEREFORE, YOU WILL BE INFORMED DURING THE CHECKOUT PROCESS WHEN OUR PERFORMANCE STARTS AND ASKED TO PROVIDE YOUR PRIOR EXPRESS CONSENT TO THE PURCHASE BEING FINAL.[/quote] [url]http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/[/url] I presume that's a legal way of getting around it as Valve will probably have had it checked out. So basically the 14 day rule doesn't matter. [editline]26th April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=!cake;47605370]Community members calling out mod authors on poor quality content is a form of moderation and is the kind of moderation Valve were hoping for I think. There's no way in hell Valve could moderate the entire workshop to a high standard.[/QUOTE] This type of moderation is fine for the workshop as it is, but when there are financial consequences it leaves much to be desired. Particularly as for the community to negatively review it, they have to have paid for it in the first place. The refunds do not go to your bank account, only to your Steam wallet so you have to still spend the money with Valve (although I would have thought this was illegal too). Negatively reviewing a broken mod is actually a direct financial cost to your bank account, even with the "refund". [editline]26th April 2015[/editline] Oh and the refunds take 2-3 days, so you can't even go and immediately spend that Steam wallet money on a different mod. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/refundpolicy[/url] And it's at Valves discretion whether you are abusing the refund policy and can ban you from future refunds. [editline]26th April 2015[/editline] IN SUMMARY: I'm not against the idea in principle just Valves implementation and consumer protection is shocking and so many things haven't been considered.

Not really related to Gmod specifically, but I have a fun graph: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HWrqdRT.png[/IMG] I see them boycotts are doing well. I understand that this is by no means an accurate representation of sales, but I have to wonder, considering Skyrim is 75% off, is the "PC Masterrace" as spineless as usual? [B]Edit:[/B] Two of my friends have bought it during the sale, if that's any kind of indication.

Skyrim sale? Well played, Valve. Well played.

I wrote a blog post relating to this, [url]http://zachary.nawar.org/blog/paid-mods-and-the-steam-workshop[/url]

[QUOTE=Remscar;47608615]I wrote a blog post relating to this, [URL]http://zachary.nawar.org/blog/paid-mods-and-the-steam-workshop[/URL][/QUOTE] Cool. Overall I agree. There are quite a few issues with the implementation as it stands, but it's nothing that can't be corrected. There has been way too much childish mob-mentality bullshit with people who "know" this is going to "ruin" modding. It's way too early in the game to know how any of this is going to play out, but it'll be interesting to watch over the coming days and weeks.

[QUOTE=Remscar;47608615]I wrote a blog post relating to this, [url]http://zachary.nawar.org/blog/paid-mods-and-the-steam-workshop[/url][/QUOTE] Amazingly written, great work. I started out being against paid mods on the Workshop when it was announced, but I've slowly been moving away from that opinion. This article has me completely on the other side of things.

On games like CS:GO i could see its use for example custom weapon skins being sold which take time to produce and would also save money for steam as their devs wouldn't have to develop much however with gmod lets say you pick popular addons like: TDM Cars FAS2 Weapons M9k weapons and start charging lets say $5 per pack. All of a sudden the costs involved in making a darkrp server go up alot + whats to stop you downloading the GMA and smack it into your addons folder?. 25% cut is also a little low just for a marketplace however having said that it is a way of making revenue which before would have earned them nothing.

[QUOTE=Remscar;47608615]I wrote a blog post relating to this, [url]http://zachary.nawar.org/blog/paid-mods-and-the-steam-workshop[/url][/QUOTE] Worth pointing out that plenty of people were against DLCs when studios started using them and still are. However, the point with DLCs is they are released by the game development company, they have a professional obligation to make sure it works, keep it patched and working, etc otherwise it gets removed from the Steam store (remember the War Z - Valve removed it from sale and offered everyone who bought it refunds).

[QUOTE=Drakehawke;47605265]No-ones saying they're entitled to all mods for free (but obviously it benefits most players if they are). What people are saying is that if this is going to be done it needs to be very heavily moderated which is something Valve aren't very good at anyway. See this for example: [url]http://imgur.com/gallery/qFlFa[/url] If you purchase a mod and then there is an update to the game or to a prerequesite mod, which then subsequently breaks the mod you paid for [come on this happens nearly every single update], the author is under no obligation whatsoever to fix it. And you can't get your money back at all unless it's within 24 hours. Can you imagine that on the scale of GMod? Poor Robotboy will have no time to do anything other than deal with crappy Workshop addons ripping people off (in fact what would probably happen is the sheer volume of reports would be too much for even a small team to handle and genuine reports would just be ignored). Also not specifically directed at Steam but at ZeniMax, but the division of the funds is also pretty harsh on the modders (only 25%). Steam/the developer already got a pretty nice cut when they sold the game (Skyrim wasn't exactly cheap to start with). [editline]26th April 2015[/editline] Also the sheer amount of cross-dependency on other peoples work with GMod, ranging from using other peoples models to snippets of other peoples code. The GMod development community is hardly professional with licensing their stuff.[/QUOTE] No, check reddit, check this very thread. People feel entitled to free mods "because it was always this way" "because what if the mods I am using now become paid and I can't use them anymore" "I don't want to PAY for a mod, I want to download it for free and then donate to them". Bullshit.

Garry, your stupidity never ceases too amaze. [url]https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/591667165335560193[/url] Good to know that you feel like the 95% of Garrysmod modders (that do it for free and the fun of modding) are cunts, fuck you too buddy, fuck you too.

People are so afraid of change. I want to see this happen and the experience of what will become of it. I think things get boring when nothing happens and just dies.

One of the Best Examples, where we could see [B]some[/B] of the actions, is Coderhire/Scriptfodder. Scripts which aren't worth it and or doesnt get supported, people just dont buy these. And for the others, there are enought People who are going to do [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1421904"]simmilar Addons for free[/URL]. At start, everyone tries to cash out a few dollars, but soon the market will sort out itself.

[QUOTE=Suicidal_B;47609670]Garry, your stupidity never ceases too amaze. [url]https://twitter.com/garrynewman/status/591667165335560193[/url] Good to know that you feel like the 95% of Garrysmod modders (that do it for free and the fun of modding) are cunts, fuck you too buddy, fuck you too.[/QUOTE] well i mean, to be fair, a lot of us are

Oh boy, I can't wait for the day where I have to buy $50 in addons to join a server! It's going to be [I]fun[/I].

It's all very idealistic to believe that creators should be free to create whatever they want, and the market will "sort itself out", but I don't see it. Just look at the Gmod workshop in it's current state. There will be quality issues. There will be issues with stealing. Strict moderation has always been a thing in the Gmod Workshop, and I feel like it's a must if we move forward into this territory. There needs to be some kind of approval process. Addons should follow the same rules listed [URL="http://wiki.garrysmod.com/page/Workshop/Creating_addons"]here[/URL], but held to a higher standard. Here are some suggestions: [B]1.[/B] If you steal or put malicous code in your paid addon, you should get blacklisted from selling addons. That shit needs to stop. [B] 2.[/B] Quality is an issue. I don't feel like this should be incredibly strict, but if something is obviously 5 second shit, or is being marketed deceptively, it shouldn't be sold. [B] 3.[/B] Addon developers should be expected to continue supporting paid addons as long as they are active in the community. Support includes: Answering questions, Trying to resolve conflicts, Fixing bugs, etc. [B] 4.[/B] Requiring people to buy addons to join servers should not be permitted. Addons should be set up in such a way that this is not an issue. [B] 5.[/B] This might seem to contradict my previous points, but bans on paid addons should be less strict, and there should be better communication with moderation. So far, two of my addons have been removed from the workshop for no apparent reason. I do not know if it was people reporting the addon, or Rubat, or some kind of convoluted black box Garry designed to ban erroring addons. I'm not blaming anyone, I just feel like there could be huge issues if paid addons get randomly removed. What about the customers? It would be a nightmare if the developer was force to re-upload the addon. [B] 6.[/B] I know the revenue split is a touchy subject, but I feel like the moderators of the workshop should be paid. I don't really know the details of Rubat's agreement with Facepunch, so this might already be the case. If someone is making money off of the shit, I think the moderators deserve either a cut or at least some kind of payment. Keep in mind that these are just my thoughts. I'm not trying to impose my bullshit on Facepunch. I think I had another point... I don't remember what it was... FUCK. [B]Edit:[/B] Formatting. [B]Edit:[/B] Whatever. Nice job ruining it, fuckboys.

They cancelled the paid mod program: [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1462776[/url]

[QUOTE=garry;47592111]They should make a change.org petition to make change.org change its name to thischangesnothing.org[/QUOTE] :v:

[QUOTE=andrewmcwatters;47618658]My digestive system puts forth more effort to create shit than most of the GMod community puts forth to create theirs. I would know, I came from and left there.[/QUOTE] Shots have been fired from the other thread.

AMC is a little full of himself imo

[QUOTE] [QUOTE=geel9;47618955]I have nothing to do with the modding scene at all. I have no vested interest here.[/QUOTE] Well, I do (have something to do with it and have vested interests). I realized a few minutes ago that given the strength of opposing circlejerk, we would never be able to win. Therefore, I created a Steam Group, Greedy Modders, where we could have our own mini-circlejerk in isolated peace, and plan for the second coming of the Great Paywall. [url]http://steamcommunity.com/groups/_freethemods[/url] Edit: Dammit. You think I'm not serious. I am 110% serious. [/QUOTE] Posted this in the other thread, but I don't think they took me seriously. How do I let them know I mean business/find like-minded individuals?

I could see a lot more people using [URL="https://garrysmods.org/"]garrysmods.org[/URL].

We can start our own circlejerk orthogonal to theirs here. [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;47619292]When money gets involved in the modding scene it always ends poorly, and it kills the community. [...] [b]Gmod modding, basically dead outside of shitty server scripts and model porting[/b].[/QUOTE] Whelp, I guess all the cool exciting not-destined-for-ScriptFodder stuff that people post in gmod WAYWO are shitty server scripts. Better shut down WAYWO.

[QUOTE=!cake;47619398]We can start our own circlejerk orthogonal to theirs here. Whelp, I guess all the cool exciting not-destined-for-ScriptFodder stuff that people post in gmod WAYWO are shitty server scripts. Better shut down WAYWO.[/QUOTE] oh you mean the thread where talented modders show off impressive scripts which then fade into obscurity within a week and never get finished nor released? yeah that's just super.