Garry's Mod is dying? - Garry's Mod

[QUOTE=James xX;47565027]I'm game. Also, why did Fretta get removed? It was awesome for creating gamemodes.[/QUOTE] the reason it was removed cause it was only for a contest for people to make the best gamemodes they can

I'll join in as well, count me in.

[QUOTE=AnonTakesOver;47571610]I'll join in as well, count me in.[/QUOTE] I'll add you on steam so we don't go making the same thing and wasting time.

I'm willing to join in and help out. I would suggest if we do tutorials we setup a site for it.

[QUOTE=Nookyava;47572210]I'm willing to join in and help out. I would suggest if we do tutorials we setup a site for it.[/QUOTE] I was planning on doing lua tutorials on the wiki, for things like how to make a weapon, with everything explained, or how to make a gamemode, with a small example. Are you talking about sandbox tutorials? Because it might be better off programming them as a derma thing, and getting them included as an update.

[QUOTE=DeathByKittens;47564752]I think Garry's Mod has been left in a pretty bad state by the older generation like myself. I would say the GM13 update was one of the nails in the coffin; a lot of coders, myself included, took one look at how damaged some gamemodes had become and thought "Fuck that." - I'm sure plenty of coders were fine, but my opinion is that the basis of the Garry's Mod Developers consisted of people who either learned to code through Gmod or were very, very amateur. LuaJIT etc went right over my head at the time, and with no wiki documentation to go on (Okay it was there but it's half-baked and poor) I just sort of gave up and I know a lot of my peers did. Solution: I'm willing to put a couple hundred dollars towards a "bounty" of sorts for filling out wiki articles and creating tutorials/guides. Who's willing to start writing? This took out a lot of custom gamemodes and left gamemodes like DarkRP and TTT thriving. Documentation didn't follow, then a new, younger community came, who had only seen the aforementioned gamemodes, and this has only pushed the more unique gamemodes further from the public eye thanks to the server browser. The amount of releases is dwindling, the known-names are getting rarer and rarer and there's just not a whole lot of content being put out anymore that aspiring developers can learn from. A lot of people say that sites like CoderHire and ScriptFodder are the cause of this, but I disagree; a lot of the developers on ScriptFodder don't play Gmod regularly anyway - they've moved on and only stick around for the money. These marketplaces also reach a saturation point; people buy addons to be unique, but when everyone has the unique addons, they lose those properties. I have no doubts that many new-wave server owners are either 1) close to trying to code their own addons or 2) actively wish to code their own addons but don't have the resources to do so at their disposal. I think there's something to be said for having more servers; server owners are the most likely people to pursue development. I think Garry's Mod needs a community site beyond Facepunch - No offense, but you're all insufferable pricks, and so am I. We're a really cynical bunch harping on about the death of Gmod and I think there's almost an "Us" (the older players) vs "Them" (The "youtube" players) that shows it's face on these Forums. I think Facepunch used to be a really good place to advertise your new server or gamemode but now you 1) Can't advertise here and 2) You now get hounded on Gamemodes and Releases if you show off a private gamemode - I understand how annoying it is to see the same copypaste server over and over again, but surely the solution is either 1) Introducing tougher rules on advertisement quality or 2) Suffering it from the greater good. We like to moan on about more unique servers not getting the light of day thanks to the server browser, but the rules and community attitude on FP plays into that. I personally wouldn't post about anything unique I've made on Facepunch because of how horrendous and toxic people can be on here and that's something we as a community really need to move away from. Garrysmod.org revival is a start but I can see it going the same way as Workshop; hidden gems amongst the rough, unmoderated crap. There's a place for that, and it's the Workshop; there needs to be somewhere else with moderated addons (App store vs Play store, for example), and perhaps some sort of gmod news and in-depth reviews (Where did all those sites go?) - I know the problem is getting it advertised and in front of people given that gmod has two advertisement channels (Server Browser and Facepunch, barely) but I think I have some solutions that you'll all be hearing more about in the coming 2-3 weeks. If someone is willing to code a better server browser for the web, I am confident I can put it in front of a lot of people. Please get in touch if so. tl;dr Facepunch is actively working against Garry's Mod and there needs to be more of an ecosystem than Gmod-Facepunch-ScriptFodder-Workshop.[/QUOTE] I'm in (no payment). Thanks James

[QUOTE=DeathByKittens;47564752]I think Garry's Mod has been left in a pretty bad state by the older generation like myself. I would say the GM13 update was one of the nails in the coffin; a lot of coders, myself included, took one look at how damaged some gamemodes had become and thought "Fuck that." - I'm sure plenty of coders were fine, but my opinion is that the basis of the Garry's Mod Developers consisted of people who either learned to code through Gmod or were very, very amateur. LuaJIT etc went right over my head at the time, and with no wiki documentation to go on (Okay it was there but it's half-baked and poor) I just sort of gave up and I know a lot of my peers did. Solution: I'm willing to put a couple hundred dollars towards a "bounty" of sorts for filling out wiki articles and creating tutorials/guides. Who's willing to start writing? This took out a lot of custom gamemodes and left gamemodes like DarkRP and TTT thriving. Documentation didn't follow, then a new, younger community came, who had only seen the aforementioned gamemodes, and this has only pushed the more unique gamemodes further from the public eye thanks to the server browser. The amount of releases is dwindling, the known-names are getting rarer and rarer and there's just not a whole lot of content being put out anymore that aspiring developers can learn from. A lot of people say that sites like CoderHire and ScriptFodder are the cause of this, but I disagree; a lot of the developers on ScriptFodder don't play Gmod regularly anyway - they've moved on and only stick around for the money. These marketplaces also reach a saturation point; people buy addons to be unique, but when everyone has the unique addons, they lose those properties. I have no doubts that many new-wave server owners are either 1) close to trying to code their own addons or 2) actively wish to code their own addons but don't have the resources to do so at their disposal. I think there's something to be said for having more servers; server owners are the most likely people to pursue development. I think Garry's Mod needs a community site beyond Facepunch - No offense, but you're all insufferable pricks, and so am I. We're a really cynical bunch harping on about the death of Gmod and I think there's almost an "Us" (the older players) vs "Them" (The "youtube" players) that shows it's face on these Forums. I think Facepunch used to be a really good place to advertise your new server or gamemode but now you 1) Can't advertise here and 2) You now get hounded on Gamemodes and Releases if you show off a private gamemode - I understand how annoying it is to see the same copypaste server over and over again, but surely the solution is either 1) Introducing tougher rules on advertisement quality or 2) Suffering it from the greater good. We like to moan on about more unique servers not getting the light of day thanks to the server browser, but the rules and community attitude on FP plays into that. I personally wouldn't post about anything unique I've made on Facepunch because of how horrendous and toxic people can be on here and that's something we as a community really need to move away from. Garrysmod.org revival is a start but I can see it going the same way as Workshop; hidden gems amongst the rough, unmoderated crap. There's a place for that, and it's the Workshop; there needs to be somewhere else with moderated addons (App store vs Play store, for example), and perhaps some sort of gmod news and in-depth reviews (Where did all those sites go?) - I know the problem is getting it advertised and in front of people given that gmod has two advertisement channels (Server Browser and Facepunch, barely) but I think I have some solutions that you'll all be hearing more about in the coming 2-3 weeks. If someone is willing to code a better server browser for the web, I am confident I can put it in front of a lot of people. Please get in touch if so. tl;dr Facepunch is actively working against Garry's Mod and there needs to be more of an ecosystem than Gmod-Facepunch-ScriptFodder-Workshop.[/QUOTE] This is all assuming that 'aspiring developers' are even interested in spending lots of time learning how to be original and code efficiently, for an engine that's going to be totally obsolete in a few months - while they could also ride the FNAF/DarkRP popularity cow until it dies, at the same time. The reason these gamemodes are so prevalent isn't just because they're the only ones people see. The core playerbase is now 9-12 y/os with an extremely short attention span, very ADHD. This is why LPers love to say "remember to like and subscribe!". Familiarity breeds comfort, and when you're dropped into a massive pool of the same thing, you like it or you leave - so that's what leaves people who like it. In the end it's simply easier and more profitable to ride the trend, which is why a 'revolution' of new-wave developers is pretty improbable. A different problem is how the engine's limitations restrict how much 'original' content can be made over time (contrasted across effort), and GMod has reached its carrying capacity for this. I touched on this in my last post, GMod's possibilities are very finite but it's hard to realize until you reach those limits. Facepunch forums have nothing to do with it, we're not the core audience of GMod anymore; which is why we shoo away TTT advertisers, while they find their profit by other means, like other forums or slotbots. Us being positive and friendly to DarkRP won't help the situation. They don't care about us. To get to the bottom of it, innovation has reached its threshold with the Source engine, especially with far better engines becoming easily-accessible and popular. Most new-wave devs, in my experience, don't care about creating original content (now requires extreme effort + lack of an audience + lack of documentation + engine obsolescence happened years ago, and game obsolescence approaching quickly = easy audience & money with FNAF RP v25. Creating documentation doesn't solve the overall problem). I hate to crush your optimism, but a new gamemode or some new documentation is far too little, too late for any 'revolution' or increase in activity. The best thing we can hope for is a fan remake on Source 2.

[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;47572590]This is all assuming that 'aspiring developers' are even interested in spending lots of time learning how to be original and code efficiently, for an engine that's going to be totally obsolete in a few months - while they could also ride the FNAF/DarkRP popularity cow until it dies, at the same time. The reason these gamemodes are so prevalent isn't just because they're the only ones people see. The core playerbase is now 9-12 y/os with an extremely short attention span, very ADHD. This is why LPers love to say "remember to like and subscribe!". Familiarity breeds comfort, and when you're dropped into a massive pool of the same thing, you like it or you leave - so that's what leaves people who like it. In the end it's simply easier and more profitable to ride the trend, which is why a 'revolution' of new-wave developers is pretty improbable. A different problem is how the engine's limitations restrict how much 'original' content can be made over time (contrasted across effort), and GMod has reached its carrying capacity for this. I touched on this in my last post, GMod's possibilities are very finite but it's hard to realize until you reach those limits. Facepunch forums have nothing to do with it, we're not the core audience of GMod anymore; which is why we shoo away TTT advertisers, while they find their profit by other means, like other forums or slotbots. Us being positive and friendly to DarkRP won't help the situation. They don't care about us. To get to the bottom of it, innovation has reached its threshold with the Source engine, especially with far better engines becoming easily-accessible and popular. Most new-wave devs, in my experience, don't care about creating original content (now requires extreme effort + lack of an audience + lack of documentation + engine obsolescence happened years ago, and game obsolescence approaching quickly = easy audience & money with FNAF RP v25. Creating documentation doesn't solve the overall problem). I hate to crush your optimism, but a new gamemode or some new documentation is far too little, too late for any 'revolution' or increase in activity. The best thing we can hope for is a fan remake on Source 2.[/QUOTE] GMod won't stop existing when source 2 comes out, even if it isn't ported, and if it is ported, there will be a lot more possibilities, things to change and mess around with, it will be a developer's gold mine when it comes to inspiration and originality. The player base is currently young, but as with the game, they get older, and will soon start having ideas of their own, and when they do, they will need a proper documentation, and explanations on how to use the various systems that have been added over the years. Facepunch itself doesn't have anything to do with it, it's the users that somewhat caused this, by allowing original gamemodes to fall into disrepute and obsolescence.

i dont think thats true,i think vannos gaming actualy revived it quite alot

I can start making Youtube lua tutorials..? Better yet, we can have a youtube account, and [sp] trusted [/sp] people submit videos to upload to that account. People could also request tutorials for the channel on a separate thread?

I'm in as well. Sounds like a cool project!

[QUOTE=1Raidboss;47574032]i dont think thats true,i think vannos gaming actualy revived it quite alot[/QUOTE] If by revived you mean dumped 1000s more 12 year olds in, then yes. [editline]22nd April 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DeathByKittens;47564752]:words:[/QUOTE] I'm in, shouldn't someone set up a steam group or something?

i think this game is dying because its not that "revolutionary" as it was years ago. nobody ever make game-changing addons thats accepted by the players like wiremod, stargate (urrrgh), Spacebuild etc. anymore.

I think gmod is dying because of the lack of appreciation for custom gamemodes. Also I noticed that gmod was becoming real stale after gmod 13 because of the new server browser and the new gmod wiki makes it harder for inexperienced developers to learn anything. This is Garry's fault, but the fault of Youtubers.

I think that Gmod is dead. When I first started playing in Gmod 10 everything was free (atleast on Garrysmod.org) and that made people want to be creative and share the things they built/coded.. Now it just seems like people start to think: ''Can I make money of this?.. No.. Then I wont make it lolz''. It just seems like people code to make money and not because they like it :/ Atleast thats my view on things.

[QUOTE=Japzzi;47574338]I think that Gmod is dead. When I first started playing in Gmod 10 everything was free (atleast on Garrysmod.org) and that made people want to be creative and share the things they built/coded.. Now it just seems like people start to think: ''Can I make money of this?.. No.. Then I wont make it lolz''. It just seems like people code to make money and not because they like it :/ Atleast thats my view on things.[/QUOTE] Good communities ran good gamemodes. There was no need to want to host custom gamemodes when you had a goto server. Every server on Gmod 13 has absolutely 0 custom about it and if you tell me changing the DarkRP Gui and using M9K weapons still makes you "custom" then I'm going to shit myself. Server hosters now are generic and people playing Garry's Mod have no sense of what custom and a good community really is. Sorry. And new players have made it impossible to revive older fun gamemodes because newer players want so much stupid unnecessary shit just to play the game. People actually care about the server MOTDs now. Server hopping is worse than ever. I can play on round based games and the moment someone dies they goto another server. It's rediculous. Every single damn ZS server is exactly the same and the moment 1 pops up with actual CUSTOM content people won't play because it's different. Idk what can honestly be done anymore because newer gmod players have so terrible attention spans and if the world isn't full of cosmetic upgrades and pay-to-win feature, then no one wants it. Don't even get my started on how newer players don't give a shit about progression or learning curves. [B]How dare a gamemode have a steeper learning curve and you have to actually play to earn things!!!!!![/B] I can't blame them though. This generation of gamers has grown up with micro-transactions and shitty P2W win games where anyone can buy the best armor and gun in the game or extra skill points. I grew up where if you wanted that Dragon Hatchet and didn't want to get banned for Real world trading, you had to actually play for years and level your character up. That was what made the game fun. No wonder younger kids won't play games like Eve Online and Diablo 1-3. The game is actually challenging and encourages exploration and play time rather than a credit card. (Last Edit: Runescape has recently added so many micro transactions and p2w features that they shit all over their once fun game.) (Also I was using 'you' loosely. Not talking about anything you brought up, J)

[QUOTE=Cpt.Hubba;47574582]Good communities ran good gamemodes. There was no need to want to host custom gamemodes when you had a goto server. Every server on Gmod 13 has absolutely 0 custom about it and if you tell me changing the DarkRP Gui and using M9K weapons still makes you "custom" then I'm going to shit myself. Server hosters now are generic and people playing Garry's Mod have no sense of what custom and a good community really is. Sorry. And new players have made it impossible to revive older fun gamemodes because newer players want so much stupid unnecessary shit just to play the game. People actually care about the server MOTDs now. Server hopping is worse than ever. I can play on round based games and the moment someone dies they goto another server. It's rediculous. Every single damn ZS server is exactly the same and the moment 1 pops up with actual CUSTOM content people won't play because it's different. Idk what can honestly be done anymore because newer gmod players have so terrible attention spans and if the world isn't full of cosmetic upgrades and pay-to-win feature, then no one wants it. Don't even get my started on how newer players don't give a shit about progression or learning curves. [B]How dare a gamemode have a steeper learning curve and you have to actually play to earn things!!!!!![/B] I can't blame them though. This generation of gamers has grown up with micro-transactions and shitty P2W win games where anyone can buy the best armor and gun in the game or extra skill points. I grew up where if you wanted that Dragon Hatchet and didn't want to get banned for Real world trading, you had to actually play for years and level your character up. That was what made the game fun. No wonder younger kids won't play games like Eve Online and Diablo 1-3. The game is actually challenging and encourages exploration and play time rather than a credit card. (Last Edit: Runescape has recently added so many micro transactions and p2w features that they shit all over their once fun game.) (Also I was using 'you' loosely. Not talking about anything you brought up, J)[/QUOTE] If we want a change in gmod then we must take the effort to do it rather then backing down because of its current state, Ya its shit now so how about you get off your ass and make the effort to change it? Ya sure shit isn't going to change if one person makes a custom server or does one small thing, If we want the change that gmod needs then we need a group effort rather then 1 person trying his best, For example we've got Griffin or was it different? Who has made all that cool shit and is still doing it even tho he only gets about 10+ people or so on his server he still continues to make shit I haven't seen made before or just in general good shit. Server hoping happens because quite a few of servers have the same content so why not jump on that train? Why not work and and try start getting some ACTUAL CUSTOM CONTENT servers up and perhaps people will start seeing that the ACTUAL CUSTOM servers are better then these scriptfodder shit ones? It's going to be hard to change how gmod currently is but if noone will take the effort and perhaps group up with a few people then we wont be able to do shit, How do you think Moron Yard/Gm Tower did so well? They grouped up with other coders/modelers/mappers/ whatever and made a community and a darn good one at that and they've succeeding in making a good community and gamemodes out of it that is vastly played, maybe not as much as DarkRP or TTT but it's still something to admire.

Garry's mod has single player, it will never die. But actually, when you have a game that gives you freedom of sandbox to pretty much do anything its not going to excel at anything aside from being the best sandbox. I remember playing space build for hours upon hours only to have things fuck up, with nothing but an equally if not more broken "adv save" of it. Steam green light has allowed for so many more sandboxes that specalise in more than just being the best sandbox as sandily possible. So yes the multiplayer is dead essentially, but Gmod will live on forever.

Sure darkrp is a gamemode that is played frequently but most servers are lack-luster with no originality anymore. These community based servers also are usually poorly ran there's always bad links in the chain. However garrysmod is a timeless game though it's a sandbox it will never truly be ''dead'' imo there are still people playing Half-Life 1, Team Fortress Classic and other games alike so I'm sure garrysmod will stand the test of time for along time.

DarkRP is like the communism of Gmod somehow. No matter how they make it the old vets here on Facepunch will hate it. Either there is to much RP or to little. And if not the entire gamemode itself is home coded it deserves to be destroyed. Just my opinion.

[QUOTE=Japzzi;47580646]DarkRP is like the communism of Gmod somehow. No matter how they make it the old vets here on Facepunch will hate it. Either there is to much RP or to little. And if not the entire gamemode itself is home coded it deserves to be destroyed. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE] That's the thing. DarkRP isn't a good gamemode to realistically RP in. And show me 1 server that has DarkRP "home coded". There hasn't been a "home coded" darkrp since that tacoscript crap. And LightRP The only fun deathmatch styled RP that's fun in my opinion is PERP or GTA:Online as it's called now. (Putting all community drama aside).

[QUOTE=Cpt.Hubba;47581463]That's the thing. DarkRP isn't a good gamemode to realistically RP in. And show me 1 server that has DarkRP "home coded". There hasn't been a "home coded" darkrp since that tacoscript crap. And LightRP The only fun deathmatch styled RP that's fun in my opinion is PERP or GTA:Online as it's called now. (Putting all community drama aside).[/QUOTE] Point taken. I may have been abit butthurt writing the ''home coded'' DarkRP. My apologies. Off Topic: I once played on a Spacebuild server that had some heavy RP in it. With factions and stuff like that you know. The admins sometimes acted as evil aliens invading the system and other cool stuff like that. To bad Spacebuild is pretty dead.

[QUOTE=Cpt.Hubba;47581463]That's the thing. DarkRP isn't a good gamemode to realistically RP in. [/QUOTE] It was never meant to be. [editline]23rd April 2015[/editline] That's a mistake a lot of people make.

[QUOTE=Cpt.Hubba;47581463]That's the thing. DarkRP isn't a good gamemode to realistically RP in. And show me 1 server that has DarkRP "home coded". There hasn't been a "home coded" darkrp since that tacoscript crap. And LightRP The only fun deathmatch styled RP that's fun in my opinion is PERP or GTA:Online as it's called now. (Putting all community drama aside).[/QUOTE] rp.braxnet.org

I personally think the game engine is out of date, especially as there are much better engines around now. Shall we remake Garrys mod in Unreal Engine? :D

[QUOTE=smidge146;47583471]I personally think the game engine is out of date, especially as there are much better engines around now. Shall we remake Garrys mod in Unreal Engine? :D[/QUOTE] One of the biggest appeals in Gmod is the pre-made content you can modify and repurpose. Having to create all of your assets from scratch is the same as making your own game, except for free and for a limited audience.

People who don't go with the flow get left behind sadly. I run a Quake3Arena server in Gmod and got many complaints but no players. Here's a few: -No FNAF content -Gamemode is too hard -Deathmatch doesn't belong in GMod -No kill streaks -No P2W features I just want a good DM server, but it seems like I am the only one who does.

[QUOTE=Vipes;47589951]People who don't go with the flow get left behind sadly. I run a Quake3Arena server in Gmod and got many complaints but no players. Here's a few: -No FNAF content -Gamemode is too hard -Deathmatch doesn't belong in GMod -No kill streaks -No P2W features I just want a good DM server, but it seems like I am the only one who does.[/QUOTE] I really hope you verbally beat the crap out of them, because some of the stuff you listed is borderline [IMG]http://www.facepunch.com/fp/ratings/palette.png[/IMG]*. *autistic.

Someone is still hosting Q3FFA? Count me in. Just hit me up on Steam i will try to join you guys.

I don't feel the same with Garry's Mod as I did when I first got it. I adored it and cherished it as a great example of game design, I'm just getting burnt out on it after 1000 hours.