I've been thinking about this issue and I realized that DarkRp isn't really for roleplaying, at least not in the traditional sense, you don't have a lot of opportunity to develop a character or tell a story. At the same time, it isn't really a game either, since the balancing of weapons and all that is terrible and you can literally just print money instead of doing any economic management.
How would you even describe what DarkRp is? What is the appeal of the gamemode? It's not roleplaying and its not really a game. I would probably liken it to something akin to a social experience, wherein its the power relationships between the players that forms the basis of the enjoyment that comes from it.
The people who enjoy DarkRp do so because they get a sense of instant gratification from having some perceptible advantage, or being superior to, their fellow players. It's the same appeal that Rust has among its users where players enjoy raiding and griefing each other as well as the sense of thrill that comes from getting revenge against the players who previously victimized them.
Raiding is the core gameplay of DarkRp.
[QUOTE=Zyler;50912445]I've been thinking about this issue and I realized that DarkRp isn't really for roleplaying, at least not in the traditional sense, you don't have a lot of opportunity to develop a character or tell a story. At the same time, it isn't really a game either, since the balancing of weapons and all that is terrible and you can literally just print money instead of doing any economic management.
How would you even describe what DarkRp is? What is the appeal of the gamemode? It's not roleplaying and its not really a game. I would probably liken it to something akin to a social experience, wherein its the power relationships between the players that forms the basis of the enjoyment that comes from it.
The people who enjoy DarkRp do so because they get a sense of instant gratification from having some perceptible advantage, or being superior to, their fellow players. It's the same appeal that Rust has among its users where players enjoy raiding and griefing each other as well as the sense of thrill that comes from getting revenge against the players who previously victimized them.
Raiding is the core gameplay of DarkRp.[/QUOTE]
I do think there are issues with how little roleplaying is pushed, or even how roleplaying is sometimes hampered by servers. There's no real incentive to create a character with back-story when the only things you can change about them are their name and choose a few playermodels that have no real variety. I even made the latest [URL="https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=677125227"]Enhanced Citizens[/URL] specifically for roleplaying because I was mad at the lack of variation in character models. [URL="https://i.ggor.ca/vUgaOB.jpg"]Here's a picture[/URL] of when me and friend decided to play as homeless people living in an elevator shaft. But you may notice something, we didn't just pick a job called Hobo or something. We actually designed our characters with the intention of looking homeless. In fact I was a medic, but I wasn't required to look like some generic doctor model.
There are bigger issues at play as to why roleplaying is dissuaded, however. I think the existence of jobs makes people associate less with their character and more with their role on the server. You aren't a person as much as you are a means to achieve a goal. People don't choose the thief job because they like the thrill of breaking into houses and being sneaky, or really roleplaying at all. They pick thief so that they can achieve material wealth, printers, guns, shipments. Not that there's an issue with playing a greedy character, but people don't do it to play a character, they do it so they can play out their real fantasies of power. When a person in a gamemode designed for roleplaying doesn't roleplay issues arise. Metagaming and rule breaking occurs. Not because the players themselves are necessarily bad, but their ability to roleplay is actually being hampered by the gamemode. I try my hardest to roleplay on any server I go on, but when my character is told I can't do this or that because it breaks some arbitrary rule, what am I meant to do? If I can't roleplay there's not much I can really do. Not to say I break rules on purpose, it simply arises from the situation.
How can the job system be helped? I've thought about it in the past and the best idea I've come up with would work something like this: You start off as a regular citizen. You can choose how you look, with certain exception(regular citizens can't wear a medic bodygroup or anything) and go about roleplaying a citizen. There are no real jobs per se, but instead a system similar to an RPG where you can pick certain skill trees that you want to unlock. You would gain points based on play time for that specific session, but it wouldn't take too long to achieve. Want to be a gun dealer of sorts? Simply go up the merchant tree. That merchant tree would then branch out into specifics such as guns, food, etc. If you wanted to only be a gun dealer you could go in a path like Manufacturing -> Light Arms -> Heavy arms -> Military Supplies. That would be a very specific job path, and you wouldn't be able to pick other paths after that. On the other hand you could be an all-rounder, perhaps going into selling both light arms and also food. A cap of maybe 5(depending on how fleshed out the job trees are) would be set on the skills you can unlock. To become something like the mayor would actually require you to go up a bureaucratic tree as it does in real life. With these tree unlocks you would gain the ability to make your character look different. To use an example from earlier unlocking the medic path would let you pick the medic bodygroups if you wanted to. But of course you wouldn't HAVE to look like a generic doctor, which is the entire idea. To help flesh out character-building and encourage roleplaying.
Of course those are only some of the many ideas I've had to improve roleplaying. Maybe I'll write up a proper essay about it some day.
[editline]2045-05-16[/editline]
Actually fuck it I've got more to say:
Some more specifics about the skill system: There would be no SPECIFIC jobs. Like at the end of the bureaucratic tree there isn't something called Mayor, because in my perfect world any player on the server would be able to assume the role of mayor. Instead you have what are more like abilities, such as the ability to sell guns or something. Of course being able to conjure guns from thin air isn't the perfect solution, but it's a simple compromise. Say you wanted to become a drug producer, you would go up a skill path something like Manufacturing -> Legal Drugs(The kind you supply to doctors and such) -> Illegal Drugs -> Large-scale Drug Production. Now the thing about that skill tree is that it's a very narrow one. If you want to get to large-scale drug production you HAVE to have already unlocked legal and illegal drug manufacturing. That may be good for somebody that's good at keeping up with supply and running drugs, but some people may just want to stay more basic and sell legal drugs. Now where this gets interesting is when you can pick multiple skill trees. Imagine being a doctor, going up a tree something like Science(i can't think of a better word for this tree right now) -> First Aid. Now you COULD then proceed to something like Surgery, but that would cost a fair bit of skill points. Instead you may choose to simply stay with First Aid, and then go up another skill tree like Manufacturing -> Legal Drugs. That way you can manufacture and sell your own drugs directly to patients. Now think of someone at the top of the medicine skill tree. They would have to ask somebody in manufacturing to supply the drugs to them. This creates an economy where people are REQUIRED to work together to achieve things.
To be more technical, each time you were to unlock a skill the next skill you unlock would then go up in point requirements. So it's feasible to get to the top of a specific skill tree such as Medicine, but you could also choose to be very broad with the topics you choose. I'm not sure if there would be an absolute skill cap, so that you literally can't do 2 specific skill paths, but the amount of points that the next unlock requires would go up exponentially maybe, making it VERY hard to get the amount of points required, but possible with a lot of effort. An absolute cap may seem a bit cheap, but may be better for helping to make the economy work. As a chef you would have to buy food from a farmer, but if there was no absolute skill cap it would be possible after a long time to be both at the top of the Cooking and Growing skill trees. A master of their trade almost. Another thing about the skill tree is that simply having the ability to produce guns wouldn't allow you to sell them(legally.) You would need to get a separate license, but that would only be allowed if you were also in the merchant skill tree. So you could feasibly produce light arms and also be a merchant with the ability to sell them, but it would be almost impossible to produce military supplies and also sell them without a serious time
mug drop gold member or die 10 sec
[QUOTE=Zelpa;50912803]- lots of interesting text -[/QUOTE]
There are two ways people tend to roleplay - what you've described is a more RPG based game (I guess you could call it ZRPG or something like that).
There's certainly space for a gamemode like that, I think. It would certainly attract more roleplay from those that want to build XP levels, skill points, etc.
But then there's also space for a roleplay gamemode that doesn't involve long-term points or status accumulation goals, but focuses more on the individual scenarios and actions that occur at any one given moment, with the possibility of picking up (and dropping) the game at any point and rejoining later with a whole new role and persona. That's the gamemode I'm building right now. It has some elements of things that you have mentioned but it doesn't have RPG-style progression. Instead, people can self-organize, then manufacture and then sell manufactured items.
DarkRP floats somewhere between the two. You can progress - in the sense that you can get more cash - but that's about it. The interactions are either to be entirely roleplayed, or carried out using the limited available items or economic mechanisms available for roleplay.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;50914589]But then there's also space for a roleplay gamemode that doesn't involve long-term points or status accumulation goals, but focuses more on the individual scenarios and actions that occur at any one given moment, with the possibility of picking up (and dropping) the game at any point and rejoining later with a whole new role and persona.[/QUOTE]
I actually did point this out, your character would be reset each time you rejoin, or even if you just decide to create a new character and scrap the old one. I similarly like in the moment roleplaying that you can just pick up or drop whenever you feel like it. If your character was kept each time you joined the server would eventually become not fun, new players would have no opportunity to reach the top if other players had spent weeks grinding. Although you could have sessions in a sort of D&D sense, where it only lasts for a certain time. Maybe each week the server could be reset? That's more than enough time to build up your roleplaying empire, but it also gives ample opportunity for new players. Also helps the issue with if the server crashes and you lose all your progress.
[editline]Time enough[/editline]
call it DarkRPG :v:
[QUOTE=Zelpa;50914614]
call it DarkRPG :v:[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I was going to suggest that too but it deviates enough from DarkRP to be something of its own, really.
The only thing I log against a SteamID in my gamemode is their credit history. The players can borrow money from a banker but if they're reckless with it, their credit rating on that server will go south and nobody will want to lend to them. It means "this particular player has proven themselves to be an unproductive individual" (on this server)
Another solution would be to have a skill cap but allow each player to create multiple characters with different skillsets. That way you could have a sense of progression and an economy based on each character having limited skills but at the same time a player could still unlock everything through multiple characters.
Combine this with a system where a character dying or being arrested makes them unavaliable for a short period of time and you could have actual server-based warfare between different player-owned factions with actual consequences.
For example, when your 'doctor' character is killed you can switch to your 'gangster' character to join your gang in getting revenge on the other faction that killed your 'friend' (being your previous character) but you lose access to all of the stuff your previous character had as well as their abilities, no new life rule required.
[QUOTE=Zyler;50917277]Another solution would be to have a skill cap but allow each player to create multiple characters with different skillsets. That way you could have a sense of progression and an economy based on each character having limited skills but at the same time a player could still unlock everything through multiple characters.
Combine this with a system where a character dying or being arrested makes them unavaliable for a short period of time and you could have actual server-based warfare between different player-owned factions with actual consequences.
For example, when your 'doctor' character is killed you can switch to your 'gangster' character to join your gang in getting revenge on the other faction that killed your 'friend' (being your previous character) but you lose access to all of the stuff your previous character had as well as their abilities, no new life rule required.[/QUOTE]
Smart, so you get to continue playing with the rest of your friends without actually breaking NLR(which is kind of a stupid rule in the first place but w/e)
The thing I think would be the coolest with a week long session thing would be the world-building that would occur. When I play DarkRP I try to make the coolest environments I can. I once spent days building a complex jazz bar / cafe thing, and in the end everyone loved it and would hang out at it. Sure you could just dupe them and respawn them, but imagine if your buildings actually stayed their when you were offline. Players like some kind of persistence when it comes to playing a game, I think that's why many of them like having custom jobs or the like. Each time they join the server they can see the fruits of their labour(their donation lmao), and other people can see their custom job that they paid for. That's a pretty cheap way of doing persistence though.
[QUOTE=Zelpa;50917901]Smart, so you get to continue playing with the rest of your friends without actually breaking NLR(which is kind of a stupid rule in the first place but w/e)
The thing I think would be the coolest with a week long session thing would be the world-building that would occur. When I play DarkRP I try to make the coolest environments I can. I once spent days building a complex jazz bar / cafe thing, and in the end everyone loved it and would hang out at it. Sure you could just dupe them and respawn them, but imagine if your buildings actually stayed their when you were offline. Players like some kind of persistence when it comes to playing a game, I think that's why many of them like having custom jobs or the like. Each time they join the server they can see the fruits of their labour(their donation lmao), and other people can see their custom job that they paid for. That's a pretty cheap way of doing persistence though.[/QUOTE]
Something like the [URL="https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=160087429"]wrench toolset[/URL] and the [URL="https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=130414613"]persistence tool[/URL] could be used to allow players to create their own customized buildings and save them permanently to the server and then they could be cleared once a week or so.
It could also be decided by an Admin what items to make persistent and what items to ignore (no prop spamming, etc.)
I've tested the two addons and they do work together.
With this, you could play on a map like gm_flatgrass and build buildings (like houses, shops, etc.) that would still be there when you came back the next day, kind of like building on a minecraft server.
So to recap, here are the main features of our re-imagined gamemode so far:
[B]-Player-Driven Experience[/B]
The gameplay is decided upon by the players and through their interaction. This is not Serious Roleplay and there is no theme or 'schema'.
Instead, a player-driven virtual economy and limitless building potential enables player-driven gameplay and emergent storytelling.
[B]-Character-Based Stories[/B]
Character Customization is a core component of the gamemode and you will be able to define your role in virtual society through numerous ingame systems.
Instead of a simple and inflexible job system, you will be able to create and customize a range of characters with individual skill sets that 'level up' as you play,
defining the role of each character through gameplay. These are not traditional RPG skills such as strength, agility or dexterity but instead things like merchantilism,
which will unlock better items that can be sold from vendors and then to other players. Each character you create has a limited number of levels they can acquire for any skill,
meaning you'll have to coorperate with other players within the player-driven economy.
[B]-Less Rules[/B]
The need for server rules such as NLR (New Life Rule) and FearRp has been removed by integrating them into the gameplay. When a character dies, the player will be locked out of using them for a set period of time. This means that not only is there a real threat to encourage players to fear death, but they can also play as another character and rejoin his or her buddies without breaking any ill-defined New Life Rules.
[B]-Persistent Environment[/B]
Player-made houses and shops can be selectively 'saved' by a server admin and made into permanent structures that will persist over time and server resets. This means you can build a house or shop and it will still be there when you return the next day.
As many other said, DarkRP is an amazing non-serious gamemode but alot of server owners think that they can turn it into some SeriousRP shit. If you really want seriousRP go buy PERP or somethin. Hate the community, not DarkRP itself.
Zyler / Zelpa, I encourage you to find time to team up and build it. It sounds different enough from what I'm making here that it could be its own gamemode.
Gmod could do with a sort of RPG gamemode, as you've described.
[QUOTE=Zyler;50918076]Something like the [URL="https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=160087429"]wrench toolset[/URL] and the [URL="https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=130414613"]persistence tool[/URL] could be used to allow players to create their own customized buildings and save them permanently to the server and then they could be cleared once a week or so.
It could also be decided by an Admin what items to make persistent and what items to ignore (no prop spamming, etc.)
I've tested the two addons and they do work together.
With this, you could play on a map like gm_flatgrass and build buildings (like houses, shops, etc.) that would still be there when you came back the next day, kind of like building on a minecraft server.
[/QUOTE]
I love the whole idea of making props persistent as I have been thinking of an idea generically called "CityRP" and I was thinking of a whole bunch of ideas for it, a lot of it you guys have thought up as well:
-I had thought of the talent tree system in replacement of jobs like you guys did, but I have thought of it as a way to get around the "waah citizens cant raid" bullshit rather then a sort of in depth feature. Which meant that you had the same amount of points as everybody else from the second you joined the server and you were allowed to re-specialize once a day. I did not have a clue how to handle NLR differently although I did want to handle it differently back when I first thought of this.
-There was going to be a settlement system where you claimed a city and then the props within the city became persistent, props from citizens within the city could be easily destroyed by the government within it. There was also a citizenship system that came with it and you needed multiple people to start a city. The way to prevent abuse from this was to force a certain time played limit on at least 3/5 of the settlers.
-Props had a specialized health system a bit like flood mod but you needed a large amount of people to damage property, so you were able to burn a city into the ground but you had to match the cities power, which was equal to half of the cities population or 7 people, whichever is fewer. You also couldn't attack a city that is currently inactive (low amount of citizens/government online). A city that remained inactive decays, no longer becomes a city, and becomes easy to destroy as a result of rotting props.
-Tribal/independent settlements were also a thing allowed, following similar rules to cities but covers less props and area and is allowed to cover areas such as caverns and certain areas that are impossible to inhabit by cities. (The amount of area that a place covers can be expanded via admin request.)
-I considered gm_flatgrass as the map but the last draft I made of it ultimately decided on a completely custom terrain based map that had obstacles people had to work around while simultaneously being builder friendly. Unfortunately I don't have the draft idea for the map itself anymore.
-Of course the idea was to have people roleplay without actually [I]realizing[/I] they're roleplaying. Just like your character based stories thing without the levelling system.
-There was a researching system where whenever I thought of a new item/weapon that I thought would be cool to add into it, but instead of actually adding the item to the game like everybody would do, I would instead add it silently into the game and have people actually discover the recipes on their own and perhaps a city might use it to have an edge in a war they're fighting or use it to make manufacturing easier or other things...Orrrr some random unproductive trollish member of society discovers how to make stink bombs and uses it to troll people in whatever city they happened to file for bankruptcy in.
There are glaring flaws in the draft looking back but I really wanted a place to be fun, the problem was...
...Well you know how the Garry's Mod community doesn't like to play servers that are actually custom due to the server browser and a variety of other reasons? Yeah that kind of demoralized me.
But it got me studying how the Garry's Mod DarkRP and TTT communities worked and how the best servers rubbed them the right way. I have a few theories that just might work but that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;50918662]Zyler / Zelpa, I encourage you to find time to team up and build it. It sounds different enough from what I'm making here that it could be its own gamemode.
Gmod could do with a sort of RPG gamemode, as you've described.[/QUOTE]
I really want to follow this if you guys actually do team up and build it. Even though my idea takes more of a DarkRP path and you guys probably wanna go the RPG path I'm still heavily interested in it because again, it's still similar in a lot of ways and I really wanna see it happen.
I also hope giving out some of the ideas in my gamemode idea helped you figure out some things in any way.
[QUOTE=Trymos;50922157]I love the whole idea of making props persistent as I have been thinking of an idea generically called "CityRP" and I was thinking of a whole bunch of ideas for it, a lot of it you guys have thought up as well:
-I had thought of the talent tree system in replacement of jobs like you guys did, but I have thought of it as a way to get around the "waah citizens cant raid" bullshit rather then a sort of in depth feature. Which meant that you had the same amount of points as everybody else from the second you joined the server and you were allowed to re-specialize once a day. I did not have a clue how to handle NLR differently although I did want to handle it differently back when I first thought of this.
-There was going to be a settlement system where you claimed a city and then the props within the city became persistent, props from citizens within the city could be easily destroyed by the government within it. There was also a citizenship system that came with it and you needed multiple people to start a city. The way to prevent abuse from this was to force a certain time played limit on at least 3/5 of the settlers.
-Props had a specialized health system a bit like flood mod but you needed a large amount of people to damage property, so you were able to burn a city into the ground but you had to match the cities power, which was equal to half of the cities population or 7 people, whichever is fewer. You also couldn't attack a city that is currently inactive (low amount of citizens/government online). A city that remained inactive decays, no longer becomes a city, and becomes easy to destroy as a result of rotting props.
-Tribal/independent settlements were also a thing allowed, following similar rules to cities but covers less props and area and is allowed to cover areas such as caverns and certain areas that are impossible to inhabit by cities. (The amount of area that a place covers can be expanded via admin request.)
-I considered gm_flatgrass as the map but the last draft I made of it ultimately decided on a completely custom terrain based map that had obstacles people had to work around while simultaneously being builder friendly. Unfortunately I don't have the draft idea for the map itself anymore.
-Of course the idea was to have people roleplay without actually [I]realizing[/I] they're roleplaying. Just like your character based stories thing without the levelling system.
-There was a researching system where whenever I thought of a new item/weapon that I thought would be cool to add into it, but instead of actually adding the item to the game like everybody would do, I would instead add it silently into the game and have people actually discover the recipes on their own and perhaps a city might use it to have an edge in a war they're fighting or use it to make manufacturing easier or other things...Orrrr some random unproductive trollish member of society discovers how to make stink bombs and uses it to troll people in whatever city they happened to file for bankruptcy in.
There are glaring flaws in the draft looking back but I really wanted a place to be fun, the problem was...
...Well you know how the Garry's Mod community doesn't like to play servers that are actually custom due to the server browser and a variety of other reasons? Yeah that kind of demoralized me.
But it got me studying how the Garry's Mod DarkRP and TTT communities worked and how the best servers rubbed them the right way. I have a few theories that just might work but that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
I really want to follow this if you guys actually do team up and build it. Even though my idea takes more of a DarkRP path and you guys probably wanna go the RPG path I'm still heavily interested in it because again, it's still similar in a lot of ways and I really wanna see it happen.
I also hope giving out some of the ideas in my gamemode idea helped you figure out some things in any way.[/QUOTE]
I think having a decay system where props can be made persistent by the mayor or someone else who is a high level rank on the server might be be a good idea rather than a server admin doing it. That way the process is a bit more automated and player-driven, which is one of the criterion we outlined through our discussion.
The only problem is that you need to make the mayor rank hard to get, otherwise there is a potential for griefing since players could prop spam and make their prop spam persistent or something similar. It could also create the potential for a small group or clan of players to have almost total control over the server if they are able to claim and own all the land and resources.
darkrp servers for the most part are copy and pasted and if you do something different you just end up getting people on who have a go at you for doing something different than other servers. even though most servers have shit rules like advert everything and you can't drive cars as staff. also its stupid with donator ranks on some. custom jobs with no limits for as little as 1 quid. staff ranks for sale, unbans for sale, unlimited cash for sale. ridiculous. the biggest problem though is the people who join a server just to say its not as good as another server and then they don't tell you why they think that. nearly as bad as the owners of servers who join other servers and advert their servers without permission. i currently run and own ZFT RP and it has been developed over pretty much 3-4 years over a few different servers (due to problems with hosts and self hosting for the first yearish) and i go on other servers to see what they have and try and find stuff that would benefit my server, i rarely advert my server on other servers but when i do i ALWAYS ask the owner or whoever the highest member of staff is on the server. i also found early on that around 85% of staff applications are pretty much exactly the same. they almost always include this gem "i would like to see and help the server grow and expand" which is so generic haha. i have nothing against it but just saying, its nearly as much copying as the downtown mapped servers (for the most part).
anyway thanks to the 1 person who actually read this fully xD
sincerely
-Pinkman-
[QUOTE=(pinkman);50923665]its nearly as much copying as the downtown mapped servers (for the most part).
anyway thanks to the 1 person who actually read this fully xD
sincerely
-Pinkman-[/QUOTE]
downtown was originally a good map, issue is the people that make edits don't seem to understand the theme of the map, you know, the DOWNTOWN part. i've seen some with beaches.
sincerely,
-zelpa-
from 2 months ago
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;50500282]Popular servers completely fucked DarkRP. It was just about always known as that overplayed and shitty gamemode because of servers like this before, but it's even worse now with servers competing with eachother and copying everything the most popular one does.
- [I]Every single server[/I] hosts a complete schlock edit of rp_downtown_v2 which adds so many unnecessary and poorly made areas to the map which just spreads players around and makes the server feel empty and depressing
- An entire fucking constitution is established in the MOTD to pander to the pricks who buy into donor VIP bullshit and take the game seriously
- A clusterfuck of useless jobs which spreads the players out even more. Servers have become so criminal job centric barely anyone plays as the cops or even the mayor. Half the server is just the criminal jobs making huge vibrant flashing walls cordoning off a corner of the map as their "base" and staying in there farming money printers behind 8 different keypad doors.
- So many restrictions on building. Many servers have whitelisted prop lists that are so fucking small they might as well just remove the physgun and get it over with.
- An absurd amount of useless content bloating the server in an attempt to make it appear bigger and better than its competitors.
- They completely ruined the Hobo job as a result of just about everything previously listed. Bugbait was removed because it would annoy bitchy VIP players, there's a ton of restrictions on building things, they can't own guns or spend money on anything, and the shitty downtown edit completely removed the underground and sewer system in favour of a theater nobody actually uses.[/QUOTE]
big servers have the delusional mindset that more content = better server, no matter what it is they're adding and how it affects the game
[QUOTE=Zyler;50922655]I think having a decay system where props can be made persistent by the mayor or someone else who is a high level rank on the server might be be a good idea rather than a server admin doing it. That way the process is a bit more automated and player-driven, which is one of the criterion we outlined through our discussion.
The only problem is that you need to make the mayor rank hard to get, otherwise there is a potential for griefing since players could prop spam and make their prop spam persistent or something similar. It could also create the potential for a small group or clan of players to have almost total control over the server if they are able to claim and own all the land and resources.[/QUOTE]
This works if you want to go the route of having one big city with multiple districts with essentially one big person in power. Which is a perfectly acceptable way to go about things.
My idea was based more around having multiple cities and tribes with different laws for each city. So to accomplish this was to let people settle down with enough people doing it (est. 3 for tribes 5-6 for cities) and meeting a time played criteria on at least half of them, along with a prop diversity limit set. (you need to have built your area with more then 1x1's, essentially you have to be building actual structures and not prop spam for it to work) And since after this point you already have a tribe/city and you want to expand you could have a super admin expand the areas since after the settlement process it's going to be a lot slower and there's going to be work you are able to do in a city/tribe before the super admin comes and expands it. The only reason a super admin would decline an expansion would solely be to prevent a monopolistic city/tribe.
The reason I say super admin is because I don't trust regular admins with anything of the sort. I always associate regular admins with that one jackass who nitpicks every single rule and gets people in trouble while being snarky about it and when the victim makes his point he just says "i dont care".
Basically, the way you go about doing persistence depends on the route you wanna take, if you want to do a single city with a mayor sort of system, you would do what you just said. If you wanted to go about letting everybody make cities, it gets a whole lot more complicated then that and you would need a system that expands a little bit further then what I outlined above.
I honestly think letting everybody make cities makes things a whole lot more interesting and allows for a variety of different mindsets and cultures in the same server at the same time. The one problem with this is there being the possibility of a warmongering alliance of cities, it's just a matter of: Where do we draw the lines?
[QUOTE=Trymos;50923887]This works if you want to go the route of having one big city with multiple districts with essentially one big person in power. Which is a perfectly acceptable way to go about things.
My idea was based more around having multiple cities and tribes with different laws for each city. So to accomplish this was to let people settle down with enough people doing it (est. 3 for tribes 5-6 for cities) and meeting a time played criteria on at least half of them, along with a prop diversity limit set. (you need to have built your area with more then 1x1's, essentially you have to be building actual structures and not prop spam for it to work) And since after this point you already have a tribe/city and you want to expand you could have a super admin expand the areas since after the settlement process it's going to be a lot slower and there's going to be work you are able to do in a city/tribe before the super admin comes and expands it. The only reason a super admin would decline an expansion would solely be to prevent a monopolistic city/tribe.
The reason I say super admin is because I don't trust regular admins with anything of the sort. I always associate regular admins with that one jackass who nitpicks every single rule and gets people in trouble while being snarky about it and when the victim makes his point he just says "i dont care".
Basically, the way you go about doing persistence depends on the route you wanna take, if you want to do a single city with a mayor sort of system, you would do what you just said. If you wanted to go about letting everybody make cities, it gets a whole lot more complicated then that and you would need a system that expands a little bit further then what I outlined above.
I honestly think letting everybody make cities makes things a whole lot more interesting and allows for a variety of different mindsets and cultures in the same server at the same time. The one problem with this is there being the possibility of a warmongering alliance of cities, it's just a matter of: Where do we draw the lines?[/QUOTE]
Back when I was messing with hammer, I started making a map where there are two "coasts" - one at one side and one at the other and a large ocean in the middle. Some kind of conquest RP could come out of that. Combine it with jailbreak-like functionality so that there is a way to overcome the occupying force and it could get interesting.
I don't concentrate on mapping though, so I dropped that idea.
[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;50924158]Back when I was messing with hammer, I started making a map where there are two "coasts" - one at one side and one at the other and a large ocean in the middle. Some kind of conquest RP could come out of that. Combine it with jailbreak-like functionality so that there is a way to overcome the occupying force and it could get interesting.
I don't concentrate on mapping though, so I dropped that idea.[/QUOTE]
My idea had a sort of regioning system, where you reached the end of your current region there was a road that took you to another region (which was another map and therefore another server) and such things would only be implemented if the server was sucessful enough that it stayed full.
Having an ocean that goes to another region sounds like another way to accomplish that.
[QUOTE=Zelpa;50866336]5 is not arbitrary, they're the 5 rules of common S.E.N.S.E:
S. Shut up
E. Enjoy your stay
N. Nobody cares that you were RDMed
S. Stop prop pushing me :(
E. Everybody wants to have fun, don't be a dick.[/QUOTE]
This is the case with servers that have really shit admins though.
[QUOTE=Trymos;50923887]This works if you want to go the route of having one big city with multiple districts with essentially one big person in power. Which is a perfectly acceptable way to go about things.
My idea was based more around having multiple cities and tribes with different laws for each city. So to accomplish this was to let people settle down with enough people doing it (est. 3 for tribes 5-6 for cities) and meeting a time played criteria on at least half of them, along with a prop diversity limit set. (you need to have built your area with more then 1x1's, essentially you have to be building actual structures and not prop spam for it to work) And since after this point you already have a tribe/city and you want to expand you could have a super admin expand the areas since after the settlement process it's going to be a lot slower and there's going to be work you are able to do in a city/tribe before the super admin comes and expands it. The only reason a super admin would decline an expansion would solely be to prevent a monopolistic city/tribe.
The reason I say super admin is because I don't trust regular admins with anything of the sort. I always associate regular admins with that one jackass who nitpicks every single rule and gets people in trouble while being snarky about it and when the victim makes his point he just says "i dont care".
Basically, the way you go about doing persistence depends on the route you wanna take, if you want to do a single city with a mayor sort of system, you would do what you just said. If you wanted to go about letting everybody make cities, it gets a whole lot more complicated then that and you would need a system that expands a little bit further then what I outlined above.
I honestly think letting everybody make cities makes things a whole lot more interesting and allows for a variety of different mindsets and cultures in the same server at the same time. The one problem with this is there being the possibility of a warmongering alliance of cities, it's just a matter of: Where do we draw the lines?[/QUOTE]
I don't know if the source map size limit is really big enough to have something like multiple cities within the same map that have enough space in them for building things.
If you could manage something like this with a map like rp_evocity I'd be really impressed, but anything bigger and more open than that (there's a reason that map is split into sections with tunnels between them) is going to cause stability issues.
Realistically, there probably isn't going to be enough players on the server to make it viable either.
[QUOTE=Zyler;50928276]I don't know if the source map size limit is really big enough to have something like multiple cities within the same map that have enough space in them for building things.
If you could manage something like this with a map like rp_evocity I'd be really impressed, but anything bigger and more open than that (there's a reason that map is split into sections with tunnels between them) is going to cause stability issues.
[/QUOTE]
Depends on what the source map size limit would realistically be for such a map. I'm not a great mapper so I'm not entirely sure how that would work, but if it's as good as some of the terrain maps I've seen then you could just go and start off with 2 "regions" in other words: 2 different servers and maps connected together via a road.
[QUOTE=Zyler;50928276]Realistically, there probably isn't going to be enough players on the server to make it viable either.[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you do when you roll it out.
If you roll it out with a brand new community you're destined to fail regardless of which route you take.
You should add me on steam, I tried adding you but your profile that you have in your facepunch account hasn't been active for 3124 days(?)
[QUOTE=Trymos;50928991]Depends on what the source map size limit would realistically be for such a map. I'm not a great mapper so I'm not entirely sure how that would work, but if it's as good as some of the terrain maps I've seen then you could just go and start off with 2 "regions" in other words: 2 different servers and maps connected together via a road.
Depends on what you do when you roll it out.
If you roll it out with a brand new community you're destined to fail regardless of which route you take.
You should add me on steam, I tried adding you but your profile that you have in your facepunch account hasn't been active for 3124 days(?)[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, that's because the account connected to my Facepunch username was incorrect, I've fixed it now.
I'll add you and Zelpa on steam.
The steam profile on your facepunch account isn't working either, just takes me to an error page.
[QUOTE=TheLeeter;50925232]This is the case with servers that have really shit admins though.[/QUOTE]
That's why my preferred catch all is "don't be a minge" because that's actually a bit more concrete
Nothing is wrong with DarkRP, it's Garry's Mod as a whole. Ever since Vanoss and his cancer friends made videos, the game has been plagued by 12 year olds.
honestly, no one seems to want new gameplay mechanics in darkrp that isn't something to do with printers or cars
i made a cool powernet system that allows you to have entities require power to use including shit like ammo distribution and easy hookins for modders to make their own entities
the only thing I get asked about is is "how do i set up your printers???" or "why dont the printers work it says no power how do i fix that"
[QUOTE=Zyler;50932252]Ah yes, that's because the account connected to my Facepunch username was incorrect, I've fixed it now.
I'll add you and Zelpa on steam.
The steam profile on your facepunch account isn't working either, just takes me to an error page.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/7L9MfmP.png[/IMG]
That's because I'm fantastic at this.
Fixed it now and added you.
[QUOTE=Reformed;50933101]Nothing is wrong with DarkRP, it's Garry's Mod as a whole. Ever since Vanoss and his cancer friends made videos, the game has been plagued by 12 year olds.[/QUOTE]
People try to always blame the community. But we're all apart of this community, we are what we make it. People are tired of same old copy pasta addons, but you know who sells addons on scriptfodder that those same server owners buy all there stuff from? Hint hint...
12 Year olds are 12 years old... They're gonna be annoying, socially awkward, dumb, and outright overbearing, in some cases mature then people twice there age.
Just an update to whoever's interested- Zelpa, Tymos and I had a discussion on steam about whether we were going to go through with developing a gamemode based on the ideas we've discussed in this thread.
We basically decided that there isn't enough of an audience for it and unless something changes we probably won't go through with it.
Unless anybody has any ideas for how we'd go about doing this any other way, it just isn't feasible to create an alternate lite RP gamemode that will simultaneously appeal to the 'hardcore' audience of facepunch users as well as the YouTubers and the general DarkRp audience. We really need to appeal to all 3 in order to have a reasonable chance of succeeding.
In terms of what we talked about, we agreed that regular DarkRp players want progression and persistence (Pointshop, Donation Ranks, Meta-game) as well as 'themed' gamemodes that all follow the same basic formula (Star Wars Rp, SCP Rp, 1945 WW2 RP, etc.) while facepunch users consider that stuff cheap and going against the spirit of roleplaying and instead want things like character-based stories, interesting mechanics, a player-driven economy and world building.
I proposed the idea of a "Dimensions RP" wherein players would progress through a meta-game where they would take the same character and transport themselves through multiple settings (1945 WW2, Star Wars, SCP, modern day, etc.) where they would increase their overall "RP Level" by doing actions that are in-character for that time and place. Your RP level and associated "RP Points" would allow you purchase character customization options that are accurate to a particular setting in which you could use them. The hope was that it would appeal to literally everyone by providing DarkRp players with level progression, player ranks and pointshop-like progression and character customization as well as providing the facepunch users with a persistent, living world where everybody acts in-character. It would also allow for the kinds of humorous and interesting encounters that appeal to YouTubers. Both Zelpa and Tymos disagreed with this idea, citing that it is "boring" and "quintessentially everything I hate about DarkRp in general".
Tymos proposed a system where we set up three different servers with slightly different rules, which we would then iterate upon using some "survival of the fittest" mentality where we would try different things on the different servers and use whatever worked. We all agreed that this was a terrible idea when you don't have a plan to begin with as well as being prohibitively expensive.
I would love to hear any thoughts you guys have on the two ideas I've proposed above and any ideas you might have for improvements or alternatives.
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