Redirect / Fake Server Report Megathread - ALL FAKE SERVERS POSTS GO HERE - Garry's Mod

[QUOTE=Stooge2;52057024]Well they don't speak for me or any of my community? Or does every member of my community just not count to this statistic you ass pulled?[/QUOTE] You can't really retaliate with what he said with "Well they don't speak for me or any of my community" when you literally put yourself out there and pretty much said "All aussies want your american servers out of our region" since you don't speak for all aussies.

[QUOTE=FPtje;52056996]I'm going to put malicious code into DarkRP. Then I'm going to find some developers who don't give a shit about [I]that[/I] whole situation and use that as an argument as to why people shouldn't be speaking for the rest of the developers. I'm sure everyone will agree that they shouldn't be complaining about my malicious code. [/QUOTE] Fair point. [QUOTE=FPtje;52056996] I can guarantee you that you will get responses if instead of talking to FP staff you try talking on the FP [I]forums[/I]. Dismissing this community is extremely foolish and is one of the biggest reasons why SUP is in this mess.[/QUOTE] I'd like to talk on the forums but I don't want to talk about SUP as a whole so I don't seem like I'm speaking for penguin. I only run one part of f SUP and we have differing opinions on the matter. I don't think there is much I can say on the subject that hasn't already been said by others. It would be pointless for me as an unknown in FP community to try and persuade you otherwise when talking about Penguin stopping the proxies to other countries. Unless that's not what you meant when you said talk to us then you will need to explain further. [QUOTE=Stooge2;52057024]Well they don't speak for me or any of my community? Or does every member of my community just not count to this statistic you ass pulled?[/QUOTE] There were no statistics given. Also sorry for all the typos I'm shit with keyboards, spelling and grammar apparently.

[QUOTE=scottd564;52056965]We left 24 hours ago. We have talked to some Australian developers and they've made it clear they don't give a shit about the whole situation.[/QUOTE] I think you will find the people most upset are server hosters and people playing on these servers, not developers (I can only think of one that you may of talked to who doesn't care) [QUOTE=scottd564;52056965] The only place SUP is now proxying is located in the same region as the central server and that's just because the main IPs are always being blacklisted (you didn't think a community would just give up right?).[/QUOTE] And that is bypassing the blacklist and using redirects, something you guys still just wont learn is breaching what Robot stated and warning multiple times about. [QUOTE=scottd564;52056965] It would be nice to get in contact with someone and sort this out along with some fixes that could hinder anyone (and us) in the future. No one at FP seems to respond to anything and that's possibly because Rubat has the time to blacklist us 46 times in two days but not to respond. Dedicated.[/QUOTE] So after three stern warnings from himself about these redirects it took your main servers and redirects to be blacklisted for you to come to release that you have really screwed up. On another note I looked around at other gamemodes ect and I see no other redirects from Noxious that someone else keeps going on about. EDIT: [QUOTE=scottd564;52057039] I'd like to talk on the forums but I don't want to talk about SUP as a whole so I don't seem like I'm speaking for penguin. I only run one part of it SUP and we have differing opinions on the matter. I don't think there is much I can say on the subject that hasn't already been said by others. It would be pointless for me as an unknown in FP community to try and persuade you otherwise when talking about Penguin stopping the proxies to other countries. Unless that's not what you meant when you said talk to us then you will need to explain further.[/QUOTE] It terms of SUP staff, you are the only logical one who has spoken for them at this point with proper reasoning etc and I commend you for that with.

[QUOTE=The Commander;52057041] On another note I looked around at other gamemodes ect and I see no other redirects from Noxious that someone else keeps going on about.[/QUOTE] Because they were reblacklisted and more have yet to be seen ????

@The Commander Yes it's bypassing the blacklist. I wouldn't expect anyone to just give up a community they've built up, at their own hands or otherwise. I don't want to see SUP die and I'm sure the people who have invested a lot of time into the community do not want to see it go either. Look, I don't think SUP has screwed up yet and I don't think the proxies were 100% wrong. I think that it was handled incorrectly and should have had way more FP (or just robotboys) interaction on the situation. I'm someone new to SUP that would rather see it go another way than down an unknown path. So please don't start putting words into my mouth or there isn't even any point in discussing this. [QUOTE=NootNootEh;52057062]Because they were reblacklisted and more have yet to be seen ????[/QUOTE] All the times I've looked their servers have been blacklisted and from what I've seen no attempts have been made to ignore them since the warning, at least in the EU region.

[QUOTE=scottd564;52057063]@The Commander Yes it's bypassing the blacklist. I wouldn't expect anyone to just give up a community they've built up, at their own hands or otherwise. I don't want to see SUP die and I'm sure the people who have invested a lot of time into the community do not want to see it go either. Look, I don't think SUP has screwed up yet and I don't think the proxies were 100% wrong. I think that it was handled incorrectly and should have had way more FP (or just robotboys) interaction on the situation. I'm someone new to SUP that would rather see it go another way than down an unknown path. So please don't start putting words into my mouth or there isn't even any point in discussing this. [/QUOTE] I am not trying to put words into your mouth but how many times should someone be warned before action is taken? It is almost like they thought the warnings were a joke, at times SUP comes across as elite and think that they are free to do what they like and everyone else is wrong.

[QUOTE=scottd564;52057063]Yes it's bypassing the blacklist. I wouldn't expect anyone to just give up a community they've built up, at their own hands or otherwise. I don't want to see SUP die and I'm sure the people who have invested a lot of time into the community do not want to see it go either.[/QUOTE] As long as there are any redirect servers up anywhere, all servers should be blacklisted, including the main servers. This follows RB's warnings. What interests me is what should happen when SUP takes down all redirect servers. The end goal should not be killing SUP. The end goal should be to stop them from using redirect servers.

Its really simple actually, just nobody use redirect servers of any kind? How can that be a hard concept to grasp.

[QUOTE=FPtje;52057092]As long as there are any redirect servers up anywhere, all servers should be blacklisted, including the main servers. This follows RB's warnings. What interests me is what should happen when SUP takes down all redirect servers. The end goal should not be killing SUP. The end goal should be to stop them from using redirect servers.[/QUOTE] I can see that. I can't speak for Penguin on that but I don't see a way where SUP can take down its final server in the hopes of the main IP being removed from the blacklist within a day or so. The trust between both sides is obviously fucked so unless there is a way to do it in a more trusting manner (yes I understand SUP broke any trust it may of had) I don't really see that happening anytime soon.

[QUOTE=FPtje;52057092] What interests me is what should happen when SUP takes down all redirect servers. The end goal should not be killing SUP. The end goal should be to stop them from using redirect servers.[/QUOTE] That's what I don't understand either. It seems like most people from the opinions I've seen don't want SUP to be alive anymore, and I do understand the outrage. What I get is giving the community a sentence of sorts with an undetermined time would make me want to fight against it as well. How long would you, or anyone from this thread, propose for a ban like this?

[QUOTE=TheDivinity;52057125]That's what I don't understand either. It seems like most people from the opinions I've seen don't want SUP to be alive anymore, and I do understand the outrage. What I get is giving the community a sentence of sorts with an undetermined time would make me want to fight against it as well. How long would you, or anyone from this thread, propose for a ban like this?[/QUOTE] Their servers should stay ofcourse as they have a community formed and everything, most likely hundreds of players would be left without a community and be forced to find another one. Whilst SUP might have caused problems they still have done a fair amount of good for the Gmod community. From my [I]Perspective[/I] the only problem is their re-direct servers.

[QUOTE=scottd564;52056965]No one at FP seems to respond to anything and that's possibly because Rubat has the time to blacklist us 46 times in two days but not to respond.[/QUOTE] SUP (and any other community who used redirect servers) was warned [B]twice[/B] and is now being punished. If Robotboy had intended to blacklist you for a week, month or forever, [B]ban evading 46 times, ouch.[/B] You sealed your fate. What on earth were you expecting would happen if you did that again, is beyond me or why you expect a response when he has made his position very clear. Your community shouldn't of acted like a child having a tantrum but rather deal with your punishment which was made clear to you would happen if you put redirect servers back up again, now you must move on.

[QUOTE=Bings;52057187]SUP (and any other community who used redirect servers) was warned [B]twice[/B] and is now being punished. If Robotboy had intended to blacklist you for a week, month or forever, [B]ban evading 46 times, ouch.[/B] You sealed your fate. What on earth were you expecting would happen if you did that again, is beyond me or why you expect a response when he has made his position very clear. Your community shouldn't of acted like a child having a tantrum but rather deal with your punishment which was made clear to you would happen if you put redirect servers back up again, now you must move on.[/QUOTE] Let's not forget aStonedPenguin said he would remove the redirect servers when the region filtering in the server browser got fixed. 2 months after the fix he had his redirect servers up again.

SUP clearly isn't going to just "move on" so I'm not going to discuss that because its not going to progress the discussion anymore. A part of me was hoping some people would see that someone in SUP who isn't just a random player there had a differing opinion and would be willing to at least try and work something out with SUP as a whole and FP. Yes, naive, but it was worth trying anyway.

[QUOTE=TheDivinity;52057125]That's what I don't understand either. It seems like most people from the opinions I've seen don't want SUP to be alive anymore, and I do understand the outrage. What I get is giving the community a sentence of sorts with an undetermined time would make me want to fight against it as well. How long would you, or anyone from this thread, propose for a ban like this?[/QUOTE] Wanting SUP dead is simply an unproductive attitude, and I'd ask anyone with this attitude to please be reasonable. Personally, I'd say keep blacklisting all servers, including the main servers, until the redirects are taken down, precisely according to RB's promise. When they are indeed taken down, relieve the ban from the main servers. With the broken trust, this thread and/or PMs to RB would be used to report redirect servers coming back up. When they do indeed come back up after having been taken down, repeat the measures and start adding the people responsible for the redirect servers on the GMod player blacklist. It's again perfectly reasonable. Stoned is given a chance to end this Mexican standoff (God I love that term). He [I]can[/I] deceive us again, but that would get him in an even worse situation than he is now. No excuses, no "[I]but they didn't respond[/I]" and no blaming [I]anyone[/I] else for what happens with his (alleged?) main source of income. Again, this is my personal advice.

[QUOTE=FPtje;52057322]Mexican standoff (God I love that term)[/QUOTE] Same [QUOTE=FPtje;52057322]Personally, I'd say keep blacklisting all servers, including the main servers, until the redirects are taken down, precisely according to RB's promise.[/QUOTE] I don't think it should be expected to remove our one US listing [I]before[/I] the main IPs become allowed again, would be cleaner to just coordinate a swap over with RB to unban the main IPs/hosts and remove the final proxy servers at the same moment, because we do have a huge player base that we wouldn't want to cut off for x amount of time. Obviously we would need his agreement on that, too and not just our proposal. I still haven't seen him input anywhere here or respond to us.

[QUOTE=FPtje;52057092]As long as there are any redirect servers up anywhere, all servers should be blacklisted, including the main servers. This follows RB's warnings. What interests me is what should happen when SUP takes down all redirect servers. The end goal should not be killing SUP. The end goal should be to stop them from using redirect servers.[/QUOTE] Right, I think people are out for SUP's blood because they were issued multiple warnings and this is their way of just asserting the fact that they weren't supposed to do it. I don't think this is a productive attitude either. I don't think a solution can be made with SUP as long as people want to spill their blood. [QUOTE=KingofBeast;52057678]Same I don't think it should be expected to remove our one US listing [I]before[/I] the main IPs become allowed again, would be cleaner to just coordinate a swap over with RB to unban the main IPs/hosts and remove the final proxy servers at the same moment, because we do have a huge player base that we wouldn't want to cut off for x amount of time. Obviously we would need his agreement on that, too and not just our proposal. I still haven't seen him input anywhere here or respond to us.[/QUOTE] To understand better, your main IPs are currently banned? The ones that your actual server is tied to?

[QUOTE=iDeku;52057679] To understand better, your main IPs are currently banned? The ones that your actual server is tied to?[/QUOTE] Yeah, so we're currently in the server list via proxy server in the same region as the main server.

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;52057706]Yeah, so we're currently in the server list via proxy server in the same region as the main server.[/QUOTE] Okay, that's a piece of information I had missed when reading through things earlier. When did you get blocked/why? Regardless, It's not an unreasonable request whatsoever, specially when you get the amount of players that you do, to want to get your main IP unblacklisted first and then take the proxy servers down after. Like you said, we just need RB to cooperate with you. Looks like the solution is found? I don't see the point of continuing to try and spitroast SUP in this thread when they're just waiting on RB's cooperation, instead try and get RB's attention on the matter if you want SUP to take down their proxies sooner.

[QUOTE=iDeku;52057718] When did you get blocked/why?[/QUOTE] To make a long story short we were warned about having redirect servers that forcibly reconnected your game from a server in region X to a server in region Y, it came with the threat of being blacklisted if we did that again. We did honestly think we were safe in using tunneled networks that forwarded your traffic through a more efficient route than if you were to connect straight to a US server, but the game wasn't being bounced around like before. We asked for specific permission on that implementation and didn't get a reply- that's where the fuck up was because after being ignored we decided to put them up anyway, let me reiterate that we did honestly think that was safe, though. It wasn't :v: And now this shit show has been going on for a few days.

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;52057738]To make a long story short we were warned about having redirect servers that forcibly reconnected your game from a server in region X to a server in region Y, it came with the threat of being blacklisted if we did that again. We did honestly think we were safe in using tunneled networks that forwarded your traffic through a more efficient route than if you were to connect straight to a US server, but the game wasn't being bounced around like before. We asked for specific permission on that implementation and didn't get a reply- that's where the fuck up was because after being ignored we decided to put them up anyway, let me reiterate that we did honestly think that was safe, though. It wasn't :v: And now this shit show has been going on for a few days.[/QUOTE] Right, at least you admit your fuck up. There's not much else to really do here and like I commented on the update thread. I'm tired of seeing this argument circling back and forth. SUP is willing to take down the proxy's. RB has to unblacklist their main. Once their main ip unblacklisted, they'll take down their proxy's. It's really simple and this argument doesn't have to repeat for either side. :v: Someone fucked up, it's cool, no need to try and go the extra mile to fuck with their day.' To be clear, I know SUP circumvented this multiple times. I have been keeping up, but honestly, having a hate boner for a GMod server enough to spend hours talking about them getting banned is dumb when they're willing to stop the behavior, and I'm putting faith in that they'll actually do it this time after outright admitting their fuck up. Regardless, if need be -- the conversation should change to how to prevent people from getting around the blacklist next time, that way if anybody else -- or SUP does it again, it's an easy solution. It's different when you're talking about the security issues that come from it, but majority of this has been circlejerking killing SUP, so instead, one should probably start contributing to the idea of how to prevent people to get around from being blacklisted in the future.

I haven't seen a proper timeline here and people seem confused so to make things clear [quote] SUP and other communites: Have redirect servers FP: Complains about redirect servers SUP and other communities: Take them down, or redirects are blacklisted --things go quiet for month(s)-- SUP: Has redirect servers again. FP: Tells them to take them down. SUP: Works with FP to come to an agreement, turns them off. --things are quiet for a month-- SUP: Has redirects [I]again[/I]. FP: Blacklists the redirects, [B]warns that another offense will result in a main IP ban[/B] SUP (within the week): Has "different kind of" redirect servers with. FP: Blacklists their main IP, as warned. SUP: With no main IP, has no choice but to repeatedly create new redirect servers, which now serve as the only way to get onto the server. [/quote] [U]Facts:[/U] SUP is in a position right now where they have nothing to lose. [I]Why would they stop?[/I] FP is in a position right now where they've realized that their current methods of blacklisting servers do not work if their target is even mildly persistent. [I]They need to fix this.[/I] Now that we're informed, let's keep it civil?

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;52057678] I don't think it should be expected to remove our one US listing [I]before[/I] the main IPs become allowed again, would be cleaner to just coordinate a swap over with RB to unban the main IPs/hosts and remove the final proxy servers at the same moment, because we do have a huge player base that we wouldn't want to cut off for x amount of time. Obviously we would need his agreement on that, too and not just our proposal. I still haven't seen him input anywhere here or respond to us.[/QUOTE] Fair, I guess. [editline]4th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=bobbleheadbob;52057767][I]Why would they stop?[/I][/QUOTE] Because this blacklisting [I]does[/I] hurt their player base, because they don't want to keep bypassing the blacklist and perhaps because they don't want RB to get the idea to take even further actions. That and they'd be given a fair chance to stop.

So ah... Why not try range bans instead? [editline]4th April 2017[/editline] It's probably easy to put a system to get notified that a server is range-banned when you join From them just PM a mod to get whitelisted [editline]4th April 2017[/editline] Easy for the join message I mean. Range banning would be a task to setup I realize

[QUOTE=lNloruzenchi;52058212]So ah... Why not try range bans instead? [editline]4th April 2017[/editline] It's probably easy to put a system to get notified that a server is range-banned when you join From them just PM a mod to get whitelisted [editline]4th April 2017[/editline] Easy for the join message I mean. Range banning would be a task to setup I realize[/QUOTE] Because that would mess with the host too, no? :v: edit: I was waiting for you to reply to say it, but honestly I'm going to say it here -- if it does affect the host, this isn't a blacklist solution. What if someone on NFOServers does it? How about OVH? How about MPServ? How about literately any other server provider service that you've blacklisted the range of? Can you imagine how many swarms of messages the FP staff would have to deal with unblacklisting servers, and how irritating it's going to be for future server owners to set a server up? I feel like you're out for blood for SUP, and you're not thinking of the grander scale. [B]This assumption is made with my understanding of what range banning is[/B], so sorry if it's incorrect.

His post seemed pretty general to me. But yes, range banning just annoys everyone else. You only need a single IP for each region at a time anyhow. Messaging doesn't solve anything. I think the concern is making the black list work for people who are willing to do the same or far worse than put a few regional servers up, not necessarily the problem with SUP.

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;52057738]To make a long story short we were warned about having redirect servers that forcibly reconnected your game from a server in region X to a server in region Y, it came with the threat of being blacklisted if we did that again. We did honestly think we were safe in using tunneled networks that forwarded your traffic through a more efficient route than if you were to connect straight to a US server, but the game wasn't being bounced around like before. We asked for specific permission on that implementation and didn't get a reply- that's where the fuck up was because after being ignored we decided to put them up anyway, let me reiterate that we did honestly think that was safe, though. It wasn't :v: And now this shit show has been going on for a few days.[/QUOTE] You are not the victims. One of the largest concerns since the start of this whole fiasco was the false ping readings, which mislead users for your personal gain. These tunneling servers are effectively the same, and there was no reason you should've expected to be treated differently. I'm honestly really curious: do you actually believe you're in the right here?

[QUOTE=iDeku;52058379].[/QUOTE] Ideally, you'd only have to whitelist a server once, it should only affect major gameserver providers and select regions, and works roughly the exact same way everyone else was suggesting with the Steam user tokens but better. (albeit manually controlled) If Robotboy can blacklist SUP's IPs this hard, it should be no problem to prop up a select whitelist for legitimate server owners. [editline]4th April 2017[/editline] Everyone suffers because of a couple bad apples, and I'm fine with that. Steam's mobile auth is the same, this shouldn't be any harder.

[QUOTE=lNloruzenchi;52058478]Ideally, you'd only have to whitelist a server once, it should only affect major gameserver providers and select regions, and works roughly the exact same way everyone else was suggesting with the Steam user tokens but better. (albeit manually controlled) If Robotboy can blacklist SUP's IPs this hard, it should be no problem to prop up a select whitelist for legitimate server owners. [editline]4th April 2017[/editline] [/QUOTE] Let me rephrase, It would only affect NFOSERVERS profit in the UNITED STATES region and people have to wait to have things MANUALLY APPROVED process where Facepunch staff will have to constantly answer messages, opposed to being automatic. If you're going to do this, then go with what TFA said. [QUOTE=lNloruzenchi;52058478] Everyone suffers because of a couple bad apples, and I'm fine with that. Steam's mobile auth is the same, this shouldn't be any harder.[/QUOTE] And this is exactly why I'm against it. Why do you want everyone to suffer? I guess this is the TSA approach Ertug was worrying about. At least TFA's approach is more sensible.

[QUOTE=iDeku;52058505]At least TFA's approach is more sensible.[/QUOTE] If it's about tying servers to a steam account, then I really can't say against it. I just wanted to give my option for the table. Otherwise, do elaborate. What was TFA's proposal?