[QUOTE=Lufteh;51876304]SAM sites are kind of eh, since automatic flare system and acf missiles are so fucked you could outrun them by walking. Hitting a plane that goes 0-120mph in o.1 second, turns very fast due to small maps and can just put one missile into the roof to kill you, is quite hard unless. A : you put a lot of fucking guns on the SPAAG which causes lag. Insane ROF-no pen and still LAG. Then there's HE. You already know the answer to that. My opinion planes(Modern ones) are just not good due to map size and how acf works. Combat always worked better when everyone stuck to the ground.[/QUOTE]
Not that I even exist in relation to ACF anymore, but I always did dislike aircraft in ACF combat. Most of the time people just used e2s with incredibly unbalanced mechanics for their aircraft then slapped as many rockets as they could onto a flying diamond box and a grenade launcher or MG to rip apart any infantry they saw.
Most Helicopters I fought easily would bounce 155mm APHE howitzer rounds, eat a thousand rounds of .50 cal, and just absorb more stingers than an infantryman could carry. Then they'd rain down about 16 missiles at once and carpet bomb a whole map section.
Real fun that was.
ACF could use some mobility entities for aircraft to standardize and properly balance aircraft. Make them have forced weight limits, speed limits that scale with weight, non instant response times, and possibly even throw in armor limits. No UFOs, super sonic jets, and 60 ton flying nuclear missile salvos.
After seeing ACF combat I heavily restricted aircraft's limits in my own mod and included movement entities for all allowed vehicle types so that balance may be maintained. It might be somewhat harder in ACF since ACF mobility is based on an entirely different method of control than my own, but with some creativity rotors, jet turbines, and other parts could be added and required for aircraft that would simulate flight through Lua and physics rather than leaving it all up to an E2. These could also take up certain amounts of weight like how tanks have to pay for mobility through heavy engines.
[QUOTE=Lufteh;51876304]SAM sites are kind of eh, since automatic flare system and acf missiles are so fucked you could outrun them by walking. Hitting a plane that goes 0-120mph in o.1 second, turns very fast due to small maps and can just put one missile into the roof to kill you, is quite hard unless. A : you put a lot of fucking guns on the SPAAG which causes lag. Insane ROF-no pen and still LAG. Then there's HE. You already know the answer to that. My opinion planes(Modern ones) are just not good due to map size and how acf works. Combat always worked better when everyone stuck to the ground.[/QUOTE]
Planes are basically useless against anyone with a good SPAAG. Even if you make one that is very fast and maneuverable, if someone has 2 ACs with automatic lead correction they can shoot you out of the sky as soon as you try to line up to return fire, if not sooner.
I am of course talking about reasonably built planes. I dont think some idiots who dont care about balance should ruin it for everyone.
It would also be stupid if planes were effectively nerfed out of practicality. Mobility entities and other constraints are good, but they should be carefully put in place.
[QUOTE=Dakota0001;51876384]Not that I even exist in relation to ACF anymore, but I always did dislike aircraft in ACF combat. Most of the time people just used e2s with incredibly unbalanced mechanics for their aircraft then slapped as many rockets as they could onto a flying diamond box and a grenade launcher or MG to rip apart any infantry they saw.
Most Helicopters I fought easily would bounce 155mm APHE howitzer rounds, eat a thousand rounds of .50 cal, and just absorb more stingers than an infantryman could carry. Then they'd rain down about 16 missiles at once and carpet bomb a whole map section.
Real fun that was.
ACF could use some mobility entities for aircraft to standardize and properly balance aircraft. Make them have forced weight limits, speed limits that scale with weight, non instant response times, and possibly even throw in armor limits. No UFOs, super sonic jets, and 60 ton flying nuclear missile salvos.
After seeing ACF combat I heavily restricted aircraft's limits in my own mod and included movement entities for all allowed vehicle types so that balance may be maintained. It might be somewhat harder in ACF since ACF mobility is based on an entirely different method of control than my own, but with some creativity rotors, jet turbines, and other parts could be added and required for aircraft that would simulate flight through Lua and physics rather than leaving it all up to an E2. These could also take up certain amounts of weight like how tanks have to pay for mobility through heavy engines.[/QUOTE]
Even horribly balanced E2 UFOs still die in seconds to mass ACs. 4 autos is enough to drop any plane you want by virtue of HE spam and/or round clipping, unless the fucker weighs like 40 tons.
[QUOTE=Dakota0001;51876384]After seeing ACF combat I heavily restricted aircraft's limits in my own mod and included movement entities for all allowed vehicle types so that balance may be maintained. It might be somewhat harder in ACF since ACF mobility is based on an entirely different method of control than my own, but with some creativity rotors, jet turbines, and other parts could be added and required for aircraft that would simulate flight through Lua and physics rather than leaving it all up to an E2. These could also take up certain amounts of weight like how tanks have to pay for mobility through heavy engines.[/QUOTE]
If "aircraft entities" are gonna be added, please, PLEASE, get some real formulas in there. Heavier planes would need to go faster to lift off, compared to lighter planes, given a standard wing type.
And also please, PLEASE, to generate lift use Velocity^2 instead of just Velocity like Fin Tool apparently does. This would solve most of the realism problems.
When it comes to planes as far as I've found, late 30's designs are particularly good for GMODs humble map sizes due to their slower speed. Sure they might get shot to shit occasionally, but they're fun designs to work with and no one will claim your shit is OP.
edit:
Also, if acf flight entities are made a thing, for wings please take into account wing size because the TB-3 and similar planes have autisticly large wings that allow them to fly at ludicrously slow speeds.
[QUOTE=mecaguy03;51876426]Planes are basically useless against anyone with a good SPAAG. Even if you make one that is very fast and maneuverable, if someone has 2 ACs with automatic lead correction they can shoot you out of the sky as soon as you try to line up to return fire, if not sooner.
I am of course talking about reasonably built planes. I dont think some idiots who dont care about balance should ruin it for everyone.
It would also be stupid if planes were effectively nerfed out of practicality. Mobility entities and other constraints are good, but they should be carefully put in place.[/QUOTE]
Im guessing you haven't read kardel's or lintz's posts on how hard it is to actually hit a plane with weapons at a distance 100m+
Rebel Taxi has made multiple helicopters showing how fucking easy mode being an e2 heli or jet is.
Not to mention almost anytime you hit ammo in one of those e2 helis or jets, they just keep flying. Because fuck that guy saying "YOU GOTTA HOLE IN YOUR LEFT WING"
I also agree with how most ww1 to late ww2 planes work OK with acf, it starts to get out of hand with faster jets and, oh god. Vtols.
Acf flight entities have been on my wish list for a while, now since fin assisted shit is becoming a new way to build, which is actually really nice.
[QUOTE=Lufteh;51877825]Im guessing you haven't read kardel's or lintz's posts on how hard it is to actually hit a plane with weapons at a distance 100m+
Rebel Taxi has made multiple helicopters showing how fucking easy mode being an e2 heli or jet is.
Not to mention almost anytime you hit ammo in one of those e2 helis or jets, they just keep flying. Because fuck that guy saying "YOU GOTTA HOLE IN YOUR LEFT WING"
I also agree with how most ww1 to late ww2 planes work OK with acf, it starts to get out of hand with faster jets and, oh god. Vtols.
Acf flight entities have been on my wish list for a while, now since fin assisted shit is becoming a new way to build, which is actually really nice.[/QUOTE]
dont forget the people that use a fuck tiny base plate, red e2 because no physical rotor (not hating on you here red) and absolutly no decoration so they are literal impossible to hit because you gotta hit a 2cmx2cm spot flying in the sky
[QUOTE=Nesara;51878206]dont forget the people that use a fuck tiny base plate, red e2 because no physical rotor (not hating on you here red) and absolutly no decoration so they are literal impossible to hit because you gotta hit a 2cmx2cm spot flying in the sky[/QUOTE]
Non physical rotors should be an acf rule, honestly. You can easily make a prop rotor, and when its destroyed the e2 disables, your relaying on the player being responsible and a quick pro tip: [B]IT NEVER WORKS[/B]
As I'm typing this, twisted is flying in an E2 jet and has killed 3 of my 30t SPAAGs (double 40mm ACs with APHE and 800 ROF). Really hard being a jet...
No hate twisted <3
Absolutely [B]loving[/B] the obviously untested smoke in mortars.
[editline]27th February 2017[/editline]
Now I can fill the entire server with smoke without even trying :goodjob:
[editline]28th February 2017[/editline]
[URL="https://puu.sh/ulKJw/8e1abb67d5.jpg"]Blaze it[/URL]
[QUOTE=Lufteh;51879948]Non physical rotors should be an acf rule, honestly. You can easily make a prop rotor, and when its destroyed the e2 disables, your relaying on the player being responsible and a quick pro tip: [B]IT NEVER WORKS[/B]
As I'm typing this, twisted is flying in an E2 jet and has killed 3 of my 30t SPAAGs (double 40mm ACs with APHE and 800 ROF). Really hard being a jet...
No hate twisted <3[/QUOTE]
Jets in a 1930s-1950s weapon mod = bad time (not much of a surprise there). Honestly until jets with fuel in the wings (or similar), proper fuel consuming engines in the rear, and otherwise become a thing they're just too hard to keep balanced. Even with genuinely acf powered aircraft there's a big divide between opasfuck and near useless ones.
[sp]I'm not saying remove all aircraft. I love them my planes so.[/sp]
edit:
Literally just ran across this: Jets that eat half a mag of 50mm AC APHE (zsu-57-2) and keep on flying but have the balls to call me out on HE spam.
Can anyone tell me why is the 40mm Heavy Machinegun an oversized and overweight Grenade Launcher now?
I made an ACF fin plane because I was bored and tried to mount 2 40mm HMGs onto it for shits 'n' giggles to just come by with the suprise that they fire 8 rounds and then reload into the forever, thats just 2 more rounds than the 40mm GL. [I]Balansz[/I] :vs: I guess?
[QUOTE=Kardel;51881706]Can anyone tell me why is the 40mm Heavy Machinegun an oversized and overweight Grenade Launcher now?
I made an ACF fin plane because I was bored and tried to mount 2 40mm HMGs onto it for shits 'n' giggles to just come by with the suprise that they fire 8 rounds and then reload into the forever, thats just 2 more rounds than the 40mm GL. [I]Balansz[/I] :vs: I guess?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I was pretty shocked with the magazine size it it myself. At least pump it to make it like a literally higher caliber MG in contrast to say, an autocannon. Something like 30, 20, 15.
Nerfing HMGs was needed, but not down to 7% of their previous capacity.
[editline]27th February 2017[/editline]
Grenade launcher generally has the downside of nil velocity too, which HMGs are meant to counteract
I have no idea why the 40mmGL, probably the most underused and fairly useless weapon in ACF with its 6 shot mag has a 7.5sec reload.
Wat
[QUOTE=Amplar;51886348]I have no idea why the 40mmGL, probably the most underused and fairly useless weapon in ACF with its 6 shot mag has a 7.5sec reload.
Wat[/QUOTE]
now that i think about it ...
[IMG]https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1Fd19OpXXXXaJXXXXq6xXFXXXc/1-6-Scale-weapon-font-b-Mk19-b-font-font-b-Grenade-b-font-font-b.jpg[/IMG]
would definitly be a nice little thing to have
[QUOTE=Nesara;51887306]now that i think about it ...
[IMG]https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1Fd19OpXXXXaJXXXXq6xXFXXXc/1-6-Scale-weapon-font-b-Mk19-b-font-font-b-Grenade-b-font-font-b.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Essentially what the 40mmHMG should be. I'm in favor of making the 40mmHMG a bulky, heavy machine with a long reload if it can be back to its old glory. If the MK19 model, or a similar model was enforced, thereby increasing the volume, I'm sure that planes would have a harder time mounting it, and tanks a harder time placing 4 of them in the same place and spamming them. The accuracy could be significantly reduced, to be fair, or the range. But let's be honest here...
The 40mmHMG will NEVER be an autocannon, they aren't even in the same race. If you've deluded yourself to thinking HMGs should be firing AP rounds or similar, you're what's wrong with balance. HE spam sucks, yes. However, a 40mmHMG with:
-Reasonable mag capacity
-Larger size
-Larger mass
-Lower maximum propellant/shell length
-Punishing reload
-Poor ammo box capacity
-40mmGL fire rate
-Lower accuracy
Would be a balanced machine that does it's job like it's meant too. Destroy light targets and clear out infantry, blow off tracks, etc. The punishing reload would force HE spammers to essentially be defenseless for a period after their sperging has finished; the lower accuracy makes it harder to spam tanks, especially ones that are moving; the larger size prevents players from easily placing two or more to compensate for the long reload or spam heavily. The poor ammo box capacity of the round would make vehicles over all larger, if they want to lob HE for a sustained period of time.
As a final note, if some asshat wants to ruin everyone's fun, he's going to find a way. We've gutted the HMGs and the GLs due to HE spam, yet the same people just make a 30t SPAAG with quad 40mmAC's and spam again.
Hillariously bad model I made a little while ago fitting the 40mm thing you people pictured that gets me laughed at in the ggg discord (lol):
[IMG]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/120995777941209090/285915820536889344/unknown.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=TheMrFailz;51889189]Hillariously bad model I made a little while ago fitting the 40mm thing you people pictured that gets me laughed at in the ggg discord (lol):
[IMG]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/120995777941209090/285915820536889344/unknown.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Uh...
[t]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qxzfHxkCvJw/TE6oyXYirqI/AAAAAAAAAgo/sTci7VTvhIE/s1600/noonoo.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Cinere;51888737]Essentially what the 40mmHMG should be. I'm in favor of making the 40mmHMG a bulky, heavy machine with a long reload if it can be back to its old glory. If the MK19 model, or a similar model was enforced, thereby increasing the volume, I'm sure that planes would have a harder time mounting it, and tanks a harder time placing 4 of them in the same place and spamming them. The accuracy could be significantly reduced, to be fair, or the range. But let's be honest here...
The 40mmHMG will NEVER be an autocannon, they aren't even in the same race. If you've deluded yourself to thinking HMGs should be firing AP rounds or similar, you're what's wrong with balance. HE spam sucks, yes. However, a 40mmHMG with:
-Reasonable mag capacity
-Larger size
-Larger mass
-Lower maximum propellant/shell length
-Punishing reload
-Poor ammo box capacity
-40mmGL fire rate
-Lower accuracy
Would be a balanced machine that does it's job like it's meant too. Destroy light targets and clear out infantry, blow off tracks, etc. The punishing reload would force HE spammers to essentially be defenseless for a period after their sperging has finished; the lower accuracy makes it harder to spam tanks, especially ones that are moving; the larger size prevents players from easily placing two or more to compensate for the long reload or spam heavily. The poor ammo box capacity of the round would make vehicles over all larger, if they want to lob HE for a sustained period of time.
As a final note, if some asshat wants to ruin everyone's fun, he's going to find a way. We've gutted the HMGs and the GLs due to HE spam, yet the same people just make a 30t SPAAG with quad 40mmAC's and spam again.[/QUOTE]
i agree with the "if some asshat wants to ruin everyone's fun, he's going to find a way." instead of code wise nerf, it would be nice if hmg's werent nerfed as they are now, with acf servers adding a rule about not spamming HMG's
[QUOTE=Nesara;51899858]i agree with the "if some asshat wants to ruin everyone's fun, he's going to find a way." instead of code wise nerf, it would be nice if hmg's werent nerfed as they are now, with acf servers adding a rule about not spamming HMG's[/QUOTE]
And what's to stop competent owners from nerfing HMG's, and other weapons by themselves? Data is purely server-side.
[QUOTE=WizardLizard;51899974]And what's to stop competent owners from nerfing HMG's, and other weapons by themselves? Data is purely server-side.[/QUOTE]
i didnt said they were forced to not change data by themselves, but in some occasion its just better to have rules.
i bet that if the acf thread was like it is now, a lot of things wouldn't be like it is now
"but what about people clipping engines together ???"
"you could abuse fuel system"
"dont add autoloader they are gonna kill my minnax tank"
"fuck off we dont need HEAT"
[QUOTE=Nesara;51900171]i didnt said they were forced to not change data by themselves, but in some occasion its just better to have rules.
i bet that if the acf thread was like it is now, a lot of things wouldn't be like it is now
"but what about people clipping engines together ???"
"you could abuse fuel system"
"dont add autoloader they are gonna kill my minnax tank"
"fuck off we dont need HEAT"[/QUOTE]
Although balancing on your own server if you believe something is unbalanced is allways an option. Difference betwheen moderating people's contraptions and having settings changed is that people can find loopholes or grey areas in moderation, which are not possible when you set something in stone by either writing a script or editing your server's ACF.
Also I kinda laughed at the "you could abuse fuel system", where you get it from?
[QUOTE=Kardel;51900418]Also I kinda laughed at the "you could abuse fuel system", where you get it from?[/QUOTE]
i'm pretty sure that out of all acf builders there at least ONE who think fuel is overpowered and should be deleted
Fuel is in no way overpowered at all, engines that have enough torque to move skyscrapers without needing fuel should be deleted instead, you know the ground turbines. Or atleast make them consume fuel to make them fairer against the aero turbines
[QUOTE=Danny1828;51906666]Fuel is in no way overpowered at all, engines that have enough torque to move skyscrapers without needing fuel should be deleted instead, you know the ground turbines. Or atleast make them consume fuel to make them fairer against the aero turbines[/QUOTE]
why does ground turbines even exist ? normal turbines are wayyy better
IIRC ground turbines were added as a fuelless alternative to aero turbines because people wanted their abrams lookalikes to still be functional without having to sacrifice space for fuel. This was back when fuel was first implemented, or sometime around then, I think.
Quick question: why isn't this mod in Workshop instead of Github?
[QUOTE=Haze22;51911359]Quick question: why isn't this mod in Workshop instead of Github?[/QUOTE]
first, there is a size limit for workshop addons of 100 mb iirc, ACF is 1400 mb.
secondly, when a workshop addon have an update, steam will download the whole addon over again.
you don't want to download 1.4 gb everytime there is an update.
[editline]4th March 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheAtomicFox;51909721]IIRC ground turbines were added as a fuelless alternative to aero turbines because people wanted their abrams lookalikes to still be functional without having to sacrifice space for fuel. This was back when fuel was first implemented, or sometime around then, I think.[/QUOTE]
ridiculous
if you want to get the op power of turbines you should have the con of fuel needed
and tbh i always preferred using normal turbines, i dont like using ground turbines
Last time I downloaded it as a zip which was a few weekz ago it was only like 500mb.
[QUOTE=Nesara;51906804]why does ground turbines even exist ? normal turbines are wayyy better[/QUOTE]
Ground turbines shouldn't even exist. There are no such things as a "ground turbines" and "aero turbines".
The turbines used in tanks are derived from already existing engines that are usually mounted on helicopters or turbo-prop planes and they're called "turboshafts".
The only differences that should be in turbines:
- Turboshafts: provide torque, used in ground vehicles, helicopters, planes with propellers and possibly others.
- Trubojets: provide thrust.
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